2019-20 Coaching Discussion/Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#76
California
Questions -

Why did Jones fail at Tennessee?

Why did Bielema fail at Arkansas?

I have not followed either coach so I would be interested in what your views may be.
 
Likes: Dude
#77
*He had a 68-24 record at Wisky* (3 division titles)

Bielema Coaching Record at Arkansas:

2013Arkansas3–90–87th (Western)
2014Arkansas7–62–67th (Western)W Texas
2015Arkansas8–55–3T–3rd (Western)W Liberty
2016Arkansas7–63–5T–5th (Western)L Belk
2017Arkansas4–81–77th (Western)

2013 was an obvious rebuild year after taking over for a lameduck coach.

So he was basically fired for one bad season in 2017 by a crazy fanbase with ridiculous expectations in the SEC West. The guy can flat out coach. Give this guy 2 seasons here and we are a perennial bowl team almost guaranteed.

Born and raised in Illinois but it is very doubtful he will leave the NFL.
 
Likes: Dude
#78
Bloomington
Guys, are we serious with this Bret Bielema talk? He rode Alvarez's coattails to the top at Wisconsin (building essentially nothing himself) and was mediocre at best at Arkansas. He's notorious for being a total jerk, so I'm surprised when it's insinuated he could compile a strong staff.

I wouldn't touch that hire with a ten foot pole, and I'd be SO disappointed if that's who ends up succeeding Lovie at Illinois.
 
#79
Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
Guys, are we serious with this Bret Bielema talk? He rode Alvarez's coattails to the top at Wisconsin (building essentially nothing himself) and was mediocre at best at Arkansas. He's notorious for being a total jerk, so I'm surprised when it's insinuated he could compile a strong staff.

I wouldn't touch that hire with a ten foot pole, and I'd be SO disappointed if that's who ends up succeeding Lovie at Illinois.
I'm actually inclined to agree with this. Don't understand all the Bielema love. Really don't think he'd be a sure thing by any means.
 
#80
Guys, are we serious with this Bret Bielema talk? He rode Alvarez's coattails to the top at Wisconsin (building essentially nothing himself) and was mediocre at best at Arkansas. He's notorious for being a total jerk, so I'm surprised when it's insinuated he could compile a strong staff.

I wouldn't touch that hire with a ten foot pole, and I'd be SO disappointed if that's who ends up succeeding Lovie at Illinois.
He won the companion sweepstakes though.
 
#81
Lovie gets fired after going 4-8 this year and not getting to a bowl game. Illinois native Jeff Monken gets brought in from Army and implements the triple option. Illini roll to a 12-2 record with a big ten championship and a rose bowl win in his first year. rFr Isaiah William goes 7/9 on the year throwing for 90 yards but racks up 1600 rushing yards to complement the trio of other 1000 yard rushers in the backfield. The Illini start a trend in the Big 10 and ultimately the nation in switching over to the triple option. Mike Leach struggles to resist the forces of the market and gets fired as the air raid offense falls out of style. Meanwhile, teams begin to overcompensate for the triple option offense, prioritizing run stopping over pass defense. The air raid offense, much like the bunt in baseball, remains out of style but a potentially disruptive tactic vs the triple option calibrated defenses. Jeff Monken retires from the Illini after a 12 year stint going a modest 6-9 in national championship games while restoring our program to its former glory. Mike Leach is brought in from his pirate ship where he has spent the last 6 or so years living in international waters to avoid paying taxes and perfecting the air raid 2.0–his answer to the triple option defenses. Obviously the most important player in the air raid offense is the quarterback, so a good quarterback coach is essential. Who does Mike Leach bring in to fill that position? You guessed it. None other than Gardner Minshew himself. With mustaches strapped, the Illini go a perfect 15 for 15 winning the national championship every year, achieving the success Nick Saban could only dream of.
 
#82
Guys, are we serious with this Bret Bielema talk? He rode Alvarez's coattails to the top at Wisconsin (building essentially nothing himself) and was mediocre at best at Arkansas. He's notorious for being a total jerk, so I'm surprised when it's insinuated he could compile a strong staff.

I wouldn't touch that hire with a ten foot pole, and I'd be SO disappointed if that's who ends up succeeding Lovie at Illinois.
"Riding coattails" for 7 seasons is pretty difficult. He was able to maintain a great Wisky program. That's a better way to put it. And honestly I could care less if people think he is a jerk as long as he wins and it isn't some type of player abuse issue.

Also, unless you're an Urban Meyer type coach, most coaches will be mediocre at a place like Arkansas. It's very difficult to be more than just the average 6-8 win team in the SEC West.
 
Likes: Dude
#83

Deleted member 19448

D
Guest
That USA today article that was linked on the previous page is intriguing. It would be neat to see some team try it again. A modernized version with more of a run/pass mix could work. That system with a mobile qb that could throw would be virtually unstoppable IMO. So much uncertainty about where the ball is going on each play.

Modern defenses in a major conference would start to figure out the key elements better than in the old days so that is where the passing game would need to come in.
 
#84
Little Rock, Arkansas
If you could somehow combine the RPO and the triple option into some hybrid run/pass triple option, that would be sweet.

The quadruple option??
 
Likes: illinifan4249
#85
The Transfer Portal
He rode Alvarez's coattails to the top at Wisconsin (building essentially nothing himself)
Come on. You can be less than enthused with him as a candidate without mischaracterizing what he did at Wisconsin. He won almost 70 games in 7 seasons.

I think it's moot anyway - seems like he's not leaving the NFL.
 
#86
Carbondale, IL
That USA today article that was linked on the previous page is intriguing. It would be neat to see some team try it again. A modernized version with more of a run/pass mix could work. That system with a mobile qb that could throw would be virtually unstoppable IMO. So much uncertainty about where the ball is going on each play.

Modern defenses in a major conference would start to figure out the key elements better than in the old days so that is where the passing game would need to come in.
Yeah, this quote from Ken Niumatalolo had me all jazzed on the concept:
If you’re at a different place, you obviously could tweak it more and throw the ball more,” Niumatalolo says. “We try to shorten the game here and keep their offense off the field and limit their possessions. It’s about winning. I wouldn’t say we’d go to coach (Mike) Leach stuff, but you could run our stuff out the gun. You could throw the ball more.
Also, I never knew how long and impressive Blackman's resume was before Illinois.
 
Likes: illinifan4249
#87
Modern defenses in a major conference would start to figure out the key elements better than in the old days so that is where the passing game would need to come in.
It is so preposterous that people talk about this stuff like Paul Johnson and Georgia Tech didn't happen. Paul Johnson WON THE ACC playing an absolutely rigidly doctrinaire triple option style. They beat highly ranked and hugely talented opponents, Clemson, Georgia, Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
 
Last edited:
#88
Gritty wrote: "This is by no means a great job, but it's not one of the very worst by any stretch. It's not Kansas or Rutgers."

Agreed. Illinois has several things going for it that the majority of college coaching jobs do not:
1. Membership in arguably the second best conference in the country;
2. Nationwide TV coverage;
3. Shiny new football training facilities;
4. Enough money to pay a Top 20 salary.

What it does NOT have are a fertile recruiting local area, strong administrative support above the Athletic Director, easy academic admissions, a "destination" campus, recent history of winning or an energized fan base. The right coach could quickly change those last two items.
 
Likes: Dude
#89
As has been pointed out, unlikely Bielema leaves the NFL, and not sure he'd be a sure thing if he came here. But per his time a Arkansas, I seem to remember reading back we he got fired that part of it was he really wasn't a good fit for the South and the SEC. As to him being a jerk, some of that characterization might be because he didn't really like the media and gave short, terse interviews. (Any surprise he's coaching in New England.) I also seem to remember reading that he was well liked by his players.
 
#92
Madison, WI
As has been pointed out, unlikely Bielema leaves the NFL, and not sure he'd be a sure thing if he came here. But per his time a Arkansas, I seem to remember reading back we he got fired that part of it was he really wasn't a good fit for the South and the SEC. As to him being a jerk, some of that characterization might be because he didn't really like the media and gave short, terse interviews. (Any surprise he's coaching in New England.) I also seem to remember reading that he was well liked by his players.
No thanks on Bielema..he was a real slime ball here off the field (some really sick stories floated around)..and don't think that Barry doesn't keep his fingers in the football program..possibly why Bielema had a good record here but failed at Arkansas...
 
#93
NW Suburbs
The real hidden truth is how impressive Blackman's resume was AT Illinois.

24-11-1 against Big Ten opponents other than Woody and Bo.
Absolutely, as a freshman when he was fired I can't tell you how disappointed I was. Keeping him would have prevented the unmitigated disaster that was Gary Moeller.
 
#94
The real hidden truth is how impressive Blackman's resume was AT Illinois.

24-11-1 against Big Ten opponents other than Woody and Bo.
Yeah. You can't compare his record to those from the 60s and before or the 90s and after. Absolute apples and oranges in both cases due to Big 10 scheduling restrictions of the time. Look at the non-conference schedules he had to play.

If he could have cherry-picked a couple non-conference wins every year and if the Big 10 allowed more than one team to go to a bowl game back in the 70s, then Blackman's time here would be remembered completely differently. He suffered greatly from the Big 10's stone age "Big 2, Little 8" mentality back then.
 
Likes: KevinC
#95
Morrison, CO
Guys, are we serious with this Bret Bielema talk? He rode Alvarez's coattails to the top at Wisconsin (building essentially nothing himself) and was mediocre at best at Arkansas. He's notorious for being a total jerk, so I'm surprised when it's insinuated he could compile a strong staff.

I wouldn't touch that hire with a ten foot pole, and I'd be SO disappointed if that's who ends up succeeding Lovie at Illinois.
Kinda funny, given his comment to the Iowa State coach when he played at Iowa.

Despite the fact that he'd be repping the Three Rivers Conference, he's a hard pass for me.
 
#96
Yeah. You can't compare his record to those from the 60s and before or the 90s and after. Absolute apples and oranges in both cases due to Big 10 scheduling restrictions of the time. Look at the non-conference schedules he had to play.

If he could have cherry-picked a couple non-conference wins every year and if the Big 10 allowed more than one team to go to a bowl game back in the 70s, then Blackman's time here would be remembered completely differently. He suffered greatly from the Big 10's stone age "Big 2, Little 8" mentality back then.
Shows you how lame I am that this was a watershed moment for me, but finding that out really redpilled me into seeing that the entire Guentherian narrative of a program that died with the Slush Fund and needed to accept mediocrity was a total lie.

Like, obviously on its face you shouldn't accept mediocrity, but the pop history of Illinois football peddled by the Loren Tate's and Jim Turpin's of the world over the decades is a complete fabrication. Mike White was not the exception, Valek and Moeller were.
 
#97
Little Rock, Arkansas
Modern defenses in a major conference would start to figure out the key elements better than in the old days so that is where the passing game would need to come in.
It is so preposterous that people talk about this stuff like Paul Johnson and Georgia Tech didn't happen. Paul Johnson WON THE ACC playing an absolutely rigidly doctrinaire triple option style. They beat highly ranked and hugely talented opponents, Clemson, Georgia, Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
The funny thing is, defenses DON’T adjust well to it because it’s such a rare type of offense.

As long we were the only ones in the conference running it, then we have the advantage. It’s another reason why service academies are able to hang with traditional teams.

Outside of the week teams would play us, they would spend very little time preparing against the triple option. It’s just not a good return on investment considering that 90% of the rest of their schedule runs something more traditional.

Now, if we decided to wait and then Rutgers and IU both grabbed it, THEN 3 years later we did it, we would lose that 1st Mover advantage.
 
#98

Deleted member 19448

D
Guest
It is so preposterous that people talk about this stuff like Paul Johnson and Georgia Tech didn't happen. Paul Johnson WON THE ACC playing an absolutely rigidly doctrinaire triple option style. They beat highly ranked and hugely talented opponents, Clemson, Georgia, Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Not discounting what he did at all. Just think as you step up in competition in the Big Ten that you have to be prepared to mix in the pass more. I absolutely would be intrigued by the possibilities of some kind of offense where you use deception & trickery to overcome talent gaps.

He is also probably the pre eminent option coach of modern times (since Switzer/Osborne retired). Maybe Monken could run it as well at this level. Maybe we will find out some day. The passing game may be more of a layer that needs to be added as the years go on & conference opponents get more used to the option game. Kind of a 2nd level of the offense if you will.
 
#99
Shows you how lame I am that this was a watershed moment for me, but finding that out really redpilled me into seeing that the entire Guentherian narrative of a program that died with the Slush Fund and needed to accept mediocrity was a total lie.

Like, obviously on its face you shouldn't accept mediocrity, but the pop history of Illinois football peddled by the Loren Tate's and Jim Turpin's of the world over the decades is a complete fabrication. Mike White was not the exception, Valek and Moeller were.
Yep. Absolutely. And Valek had an excuse for being bad in the immediate aftermath of the the Slush Fund scandal. Blackman was a Hall of Fame coach who left Dartmouth because the NCAA was reorganizing football into divisions and the Ivy League was making the decision to go small time. It was a major coup that he came to Illinois. He made the Illini respectable for his entire time here. If he had been able to schedule the way that - as an example - Zook was able to schedule and was able go to bowls merely for finishing at or above .500 the way it is now, he would have gone to bowls in 5 of his 6 seasons at Illinois.

Moeller took that and blew it up. White immediately got Illinois back to where Blackman had them and built on it. Mackovic took over for White and sustained that same level. It was when Guenther took over that mediocrity became acceptable.

I think a major turning point in the program was after 1993 - Tepper's second year - when Tepper, who should have by all rights been on the hot seat, was retained after going 5-6 and missing a bowl for the first time in 6 years. He then took what was probably the most talented Illini team in my lifetime to a mediocre 7-5 finish in 1994 and missed a bowl in 1995 by going 5-5-1 with the 2nd and 3rd picks of the NFL draft on his team! And was still retained! By this time, three years had passed, all of Mac's recruits were gone, and we've been in an endless rebuilding cycle ever since.

Illinois' problem hasn't been firing coaches too quickly. It's been refusing to cut bait when things obviously aren't working. Tepper should have been fired after 1993 - He was given 3 more years. Turner should have been fired after 2003 - He was given another year. Zook should have been fired after 2009 - He was given 2 more years. Beckman should have been fired after 2012, when his senior-laden team face planted and the initial accusations about him mistreating players reached the DIA - He was inexplicably given 2 more years.

Cubit was almost allowed another year as a lame duck coach until Whitman was hired. Josh Whitman made a major change in the way Illinois had been doing business the previous couple decades by not waiting around and hiring a coach that could immediately start building. I am not of the opinion that Smith should have been fired. Yet. But unless this season turns around in a big way, I think it will be time for him to go. He'll have vastly improved on the smoking crater of a program he took over. His efforts should be appreciated. But he shouldn't be allowed to stay on to the point that he's no longer able to recruit effectively and all the work he's done to improve the program begins to degrade.
 
aka Flash Gordon, earthling
Planet Earth, when not battling Ming the Merciless
Only if he comes with the pleated khakis...

Maybe Barry Switzer will come out of retirement?
;)
Switzer is about to turn 82 and has been out of football for 20 years. Stoops, on the other hand, is 59 and active as the head coach and general manager of the Dallas Renegades of the XFL. He's only been out of college football for three years, and was All Big Ten as a player at Iowa. Also coached there as a graduate assistant. Grew up in Ohio. Not that he's going to leave the XFL for Illinois, but we could, and probably will, do worse.
 
Likes: KevinC
Status
Not open for further replies.