2019-20 Coaching Discussion/Carousel

[Thaillini22]

Whitman's hires in football and basketball are 4-25 and 11-27, respectively, in Big Ten play. Both programs are markedly worse as a matter of fact.

The case for Whitman is that he's brought peace and stability among both the donor and administration powers that be atop the DIA (the real day-to-day job of an AD) and that in a vacuum both of those hires were solid results of solid processes. There's every reason to believe he's as likely to make a sound next move as anybody else would be.

Yes, W/L not improved, but the case you've laid out for Whitman isn't nothing.

If he makes a better hire this time -- one that does get results in terms of W/L, say one who is the FB equivalent of BU (yes, this presupposes dancing this season) -- then I think the case for "JW doesn't deserve hate" gets even stronger.

 

[bombayIllini]

Whitman's hires in football and basketball are 4-25 and 11-27, respectively, in Big Ten play. Both programs are markedly worse as a matter of fact.

The case for Whitman is that he's brought peace and stability among both the donor and administration powers that be atop the DIA (the real day-to-day job of an AD) and that in a vacuum both of those hires were solid results of solid processes. There's every reason to believe he's as likely to make a sound next move as anybody else would be.

FB is on fire. I think we all can agree one that.

Are you claiming BB is on fire too?

I for one, find that to be an outrageous claim.

 

[ChiefGritty]

FB is on fire. I think we all can agree one that.

Are you claiming BB is on fire too?

I for one, find that to be an outrageous claim.

Both have been very bad. I'm hopeful basketball is primed to turn around, but I was hopeful the same was going to happen in football too.

None of this is meant to be a case to fire Josh Whitman by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[SouthFLILLINI]

Let's get to a solution instead of bashing everything ILLINI. Realistically, who can JW get to build this program to where it should be?

After watching Fickell this weekend, he would be a great choice. Bring along his DC Marcus Freeman too.

 

[skyIdub]

Patiently waiting for D1 hockey...

 

[Twangers]

Let's get to a solution instead of bashing everything ILLINI. Realistically, who can JW get to build this program to where it should be?

After watching Fickell this weekend, he would be a great choice. Bring along his DC Marcus Freeman too.

Unfortunately, that’s not realistic.

Had a couple people prop up Chip Long to me. Sounds like he’d actually want the job. That’s intriguing.

 

[FiveStar]

I have been on record that the option is my favorite offense but nothing past that. I am willing to state that some schools have had great triple options offenses that they have won many games with, the same way other schools have done with spread, west coast, air raid, etc.

Beside the fact that is aesthetically pleasing to me, here are some reasons I actually like the option as an offense.

1) we will have clear identity and approach to our offense

2) time of possession in the age of the quick strike offenses

3) tighter, heavier formations in the age of spread offenses

4) forcing second level defenders to make instantaneous run reads and run support tackles when their main roles every week are coverage vs creative schemes, options routes, picks etc.

5) when you do throw you catch the other team off guard and pretty much guarantee man coverage with gaping holes on the back end with everybody assuming the run.

To be fair, I also don’t know football like that. So somebody tell me why I’m wrong.

 

[Ander1345]

There's some great videos with Paul Johnson talking about how the Option Offense is really not that much different than the traditional I Form power run formations with the most noticeable difference being the Fullback/B Back getting the most of the work load with the A Backs being the window dressing but also your home run hitters.

I think the offense gets a bad reputation as 3 yards a pop and it's a success but greater coaching minds could easily adapt it to a more open playbook.

I could talk about it for literally days, but that's a different conversation.

 

[bombayIllini]

Patiently waiting for D1 hockey...

To get beat by everyone?

 

[ISUIllini89]

I don’t understand the JW hate. I am far from an insider, but isn’t he the first to truly get stuff done in the AD the right way? The new building is state of the art and there has been/will be projects for other sports. BU seems to be turning the corner. Lovie got people talking about Illinois football. It ultimately hasn’t worked out, but the foundation is much more sound than it’s been since Zook.

BU dances this year and the Lovie experiment ends this year and everyone should be decently satisfied with JW. Football goes bowling under next hire and everyone should be happy.

 

[bombayIllini]

I don’t understand the JW hate. I am far from an insider, but isn’t he the first to truly get stuff done in the AD the right way? The new building is state of the art and there has been/will be projects for other sports. BU seems to be turning the corner. Lovie got people talking about Illinois football. It ultimately hasn’t worked out, but the foundation is much more sound than it’s been since Zook.

BU dances this year and the Lovie experiment ends this year and everyone should be decently satisfied with JW. Football goes bowling under next hire and everyone should be happy.

A LOT of assumptions.

For one, let JW fire Lovie. ASAP. Actually, now.

Then, what-if BU does not dance?

Then, what-if the next FB coach is a dud?



WE need stability and some assurance. JW can provide that, no two ways. BUT, he better produce more than buildings.

 

[BZuppke]

“No athletic director holds office longer than two losing football coaches”

Robert C. Zuppke

 

[Deleted member 649710]

JW: New football facility, new baseball facility, new soccer/track facility, athletics HOF, BU hire might turn out pretty good, non-revenue sports experiencing some decent success, and could add hockey + a new facility for hockey/gymnastics/volleyball. All in under four years. I'm pretty impressed.

As for the Lovie hire, it didn't work out on the field, but the coach has been a respectable ambassador for the University, not a clown show like Beckman. I firmly believe the football program as a whole has got a better foundation even though the wins are not there.

 

[KevinC]

I’ve yet to see anyone state that this offensive philosophy will produce automatic success. On the contrary, I have seen multiple people suggest (Yourself most especially) that this offense will produce mediocrity or outright failure. When evidence is presented that contradicts this theory, these facts are essentially ignored and the one false narrative that actually IS being perpetrated here continues.

I don’t really care for the offense myself but I’m willing to keep an open mind. You and many others are not. That’s the difference between a person who ultimately only cares about winning and people who only care to win in the way that is most aesthetically pleasing to them.

I hope that Illinois always wins. But, I went to Illinois because I was convinced that Illinois could win a national championship. It hasn't happened but, I still have dreams. Others have indeed said that the triple option is an offense that always wins. Not true at all! If this was true, everyone would be using it. I have no faith at all in that O. Especially the Wishbone. I think that any team that wants to consistently win more than 50% of the time has to have a much more balanced O. This not a balanced O and, if coaches can get away from the 60s theories of defending it, can be easily defended. I feel that any administration that chooses a coach that runs that O has no real interest in winning and I am not going to give my time or money to such an administration. I will wait for basketball season. I will wish U of I good luck every season in football but, I will not watch them on tv, attend any games or, send any money. You can say what you want but, those choices are mine not yours. I will place my hand upon a bible and swear that I don't think IL will consistently be above a .500 team running such an O. We are bad now but, I actually think that we can be worse running such an O. See the Moeller days where he made IL an exclusive triple option attack. That is what you can look forward to.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

I have been on record that the option is my favorite offense but nothing past that. I am willing to state that some schools have had great triple options offenses that they have won many games with, the same way other schools have done with spread, west coast, air raid, etc.
3) tighter, heavier formations in the age of spread offenses

I will say that this is what intrigues me the most. Football evolves just like everything else. Today's game is about sleek and speed. IF you can get the road grading O lineman, I can see an advantage here.
HOWEVER, when you end up NOT giving it to your fullback, you better have the speed to get to the outside quick. Because that sleek and speedy LB that bit on the dive, is gonna be out there real freeking quick.

 

[skyIdub]

To get beat by everyone?

Are they hiring Lovie and Rod?

 

[RedRocksIllini]

Are they hiring Lovie and Rod?

I think Miles Smith will be the head coach. Word is he saw part of a Blackhawks game on TV the other night so now he's as qualified to be a hockey coach as he is a football coach.

 

[KenR]

Myself and our circle of Illini Alum/fans are trying extremely hard to be optimistic regarding the future of the football program. We all fear the same things. It's obvious at this point that Lovie will be fired and there is a very good chance that Whitman will not be able to attract a solid coaching staff. It's been the same routine for a very long time. The program is constantly in a tear-down/rebuild cycle that never really produces any results other than the inevitable impossibility of getting anyone competent/clean to run the program. It's seems unfathomable that an institution of the caliber of The University of Illinois is home to a football program that flounder's incessantly. We all know we're better than that, or at least we should be! It seems there has to be a problem above and beyond the scope and realm of the DIA. We all had high hopes when JW was hired and he seemed to have begun to point things in the right direction but even all that is becoming suspect. I will always believe the Lovie hire was a good one but for whatever reason reality has once again set in and the whole deal goes embarrassingly sour and the program has once again succumbed to the aforementioned 5 year tear-down/rebuild cycle with no end in sight.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I feel like attempts to weave everything from Tepper to now into one coherent master narrative is kind of a folly. It obscures more than it reveals.

(Unless of course it's all about how RG was terrible, then it's objectively correct and undeniable )

 

[ChiefGritty]

Unfortunately, that’s not realistic.

Apparently our AD doesn't agree.

As a Columbus native, an Ohio State graduate, GA, position coach, coordinator and (interim) head coach, Fickell presumably had designs on returning to the homeland as Ohio State’s head coach one day — a plan that Ryan Day has taken off the table for now.

But if Michigan were to move on from Jim Harbaugh or Mark Dantonio were to walk away at Michigan State, the former Buckeye may be the best option for those schools to catch Ohio State. Another interested suitor could be Illinois, as rumor has it AD Josh Whitman has been sniffing around.

The idea that Mark Dantonio could walk away from MSU is also intriguing. Would they give Mike Tressel the job? Or would he suddenly become a free agent with the ability to take his pick of the many good coaches and recruiters on that staff? Not unlike how James Franklin built Vandy from the leftovers of the Ralph Friedgen era at Maryland?

We are Shaka Watchin' now kiddoes!

 

[Twangers]

Apparently our AD doesn't agree.



The idea that Mark Dantonio could walk away from MSU is also intriguing. Would they give Mike Tressel the job? Or would he suddenly become a free agent with the ability to take his pick of the many good coaches and recruiters on that staff? Not unlike how James Franklin built Vandy from the leftovers of the Ralph Friedgen era at Maryland?

We are Shaka Watchin' now kiddoes!

I still don't see it but for context I was referring more to the idea that we would land Fickell AND Marcus Freeman, as suggested.

Dantonio has been through some (stuff) the last 2 years. While it does surprise me he would look to walk away, it probably shouldn't.

 

[SouthFLILLINI]

Unfortunately, that’s not realistic.

Had a couple people prop up Chip Long to me. Sounds like he’d actually want the job. That’s intriguing.

Thanks, Twangers! Long would be interesting and can recruit.

 

[FoxesFan]

My heart is broken over all of this. I'm a I-Fund member, Varsity I member, Season Ticket holder, and I bleed Orange and Blue. Up util 5:00 last Saturday, I really thought that Lovie would be able to get us to 5 or 6 wins. I was even willing to accept 3 or 4 this year in hope of 6 next year -- holding out hope and not wanting to go through a coaching change. But there is zero consistency, even in what we fail at. Defense against EMU and Nebby, then Offense against Minny. Abject Failure! Sorry Lovie I am sure that you are a decent guy, and have tried. But this is not going anywhere. We need a new coach.

I'm considering staying home rather then suffer through the Michigan and Wisconsin massacres.

JW, this is one of those moments when a leader is asked to do the impossible. We have a junior rich team this year that will be senior rich next year. Find a coach that can use that experience to win 6 games. Impossible, yes, but we need it. Or, in three years we'll be writing about how much we loved and respected you [Note: past tense on a future date], but its 'its not working' and 'going nowhere' so . . . . . . . . That's the last thing that anyone wants. Gods Speed JW, your University Needs You!

 

[ChiefIllini]

I don't think Fickell has the ceiling some of the other guys have, but I think he's proven he has the floor to come in an immediately raise this team up. He's got the pedigree to do more, but I think he's someone you could call a logical home run hire. Whether or not he brings his stud DC, spending so much time at OSU has got to give you insight as to how a program should be run--especially in the midwest/B1G.

My biggest concern is that it's almost a lateral move. Better conference and probably better resources, but this job becomes uglier by the year. JW seems to be good at selling it, so I'm not overly concerned with that, but it's got to factor in for someone like Fickell, who I assume would love to see Day fail at OSU.

 

[maverick]

I hope that Illinois always wins. But, I went to Illinois because I was convinced that Illinois could win a national championship. It hasn't happened but, I still have dreams. Others have indeed said that the triple option is an offense that always wins. Not true at all! If this was true, everyone would be using it. I have no faith at all in that O. Especially the Wishbone. I think that any team that wants to consistently win more than 50% of the time has to have a much more balanced O. This not a balanced O and, if coaches can get away from the 60s theories of defending it, can be easily defended. I feel that any administration that chooses a coach that runs that O has no real interest in winning and I am not going to give my time or money to such an administration. I will wait for basketball season. I will wish U of I good luck every season in football but, I will not watch them on tv, attend any games or, send any money. You can say what you want but, those choices are mine not yours. I will place my hand upon a bible and swear that I don't think IL will consistently be above a .500 team running such an O. We are bad now but, I actually think that we can be worse running such an O. See the Moeller days where he made IL an exclusive triple option attack. That is what you can look forward to.

Take a breath, bro.