2020 NBA Draft

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While this is seemingly stating the obvious, that is not the only path to recruiting and/or on-court success. Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdue have all been significantly more successful than us over the past 15 years without getting a ton of guys to the league. Of course, so have Michigan State, Ohio State, and Michigan and they have all had a lot of drafted players.

It all comes down to what Kofi wants. Travis Etienne was a top 5 RB and chose to return for his senior season at Clemson. I know that's a one-off, cherry-picked example but maybe Kofi is enjoying his time on a college campus and that combined with the possibility of improving his draft stock would keep him in Champaign for another season.

No matter what anyone on this board says or sees through their orange-colored glasses, Kofi is no where near a 1st round pick right now according to people who do this for a living. Can he get there? Sure, but the Michigan games shows he has a pretty long way to go and that's okay too.
I agree he isn't a first round pick, but by your same logic we can't really determine if being a first round pick is important to him. If he gets feedback he likes from scouts, he may go. I hope he doesn't because I think having him next year would be amazing, but I'm not going to lose my head if he goes. It's just part and parcel of college sports. I'd say the same of any player.

That being said, I'd much rather follow the OSU, MSU, UM model of getting guys drafted. Our coaching staff has done a great job finding diamonds in the rough, but my personal preference is to make a splash. But since I'm not employed by the DIA, my opinion doesn't hold much water, does it?
 
That being said, I'd much rather follow the OSU, MSU, UM model of getting guys drafted. Our coaching staff has done a great job finding diamonds in the rough, but my personal preference is to make a splash. But since I'm not employed by the DIA, my opinion doesn't hold much water, does it?
Of course it does. Your opinion is worth five times what mine is worth. Of course, my opinion is worth zero. You do the math.
 
The Transfer Portal
While this is seemingly stating the obvious, that is not the only path to recruiting and/or on-court success. Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdue have all been significantly more successful than us over the past 15 years without getting a ton of guys to the league.
What's a ton? Since 2006, we've had two players log at least two years in the NBA (James Augustine and Meyers Leonard). Over that same time period, Wisconsin has had 5, and Purdue has had 6 (I'm counting Carsen Edwards in that, since he will hit the two year mark). If you expand that to "any amount of NBA roster time at all" and it's Wisconsin 9, Purdue 8, Illinois 3.

There's a sizable gulf between where we currently are and "being Kentucky" and we should be enthused about anything that helps us make up some of that ground.
 

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What's a ton? Since 2006, we've had two players log at least two years in the NBA (James Augustine and Meyers Leonard). Over that same time period, Wisconsin has had 5, and Purdue has had 6 (I'm counting Carsen Edwards in that, since he will hit the two year mark). If you expand that to "any amount of NBA roster time at all" and it's Wisconsin 9, Purdue 8, Illinois 3.

There's a sizable gulf between where we currently are and "being Kentucky" and we should be enthused about anything that helps us make up some of that ground.
How many of those Wisconsin and Purdue players left after their freshman year?

And any amount of roster time would be 5 for Illinois. (Dee, James, Meyers, Brandon, and Kendrick)

Wisconsin has won 22 NCAA tournament games since 2006. Purdue has won 15. We have won 2. The disparity in players who have played in the NBA to NCAA tournament wins is not proportional.
 
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You guys are inventing this hang-up on one-and-dones. That doesn't really have anything to do with it. Go when it makes sense to go, and everybody wins.

(Also, you can't be counting Kendrick Nunn)
I think it's funny how you cherry-pick what you respond to.

This site counts Kendrick Nunn. https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/Illinois/3/nba-players

Even not counting Nunn, we're still at 4 and Dee did accrue 2 years of service time.

I didn't invent any hang up about one-and-dones. It was you who brought up the gulf between us and "being Kentucky" (unsure of why quotes were used since I never said that) so I asked about one-and-dones since the programs I mentioned didn't have any.

You guys are inventing this tangible benefit of having Kofi leave early when he clearly is not ready. There is not a single mock draft that has Kofi anywhere near the first round. This entire discussion is kind of silly, to be honest. Caleb Swanigan may be Kofi's best comp for a path to the NBA and even he had more hype/was rated higher coming out of HS than Kofi did. An NBA scout said of Swanigan after his freshman year, "I think he has a chance if he can improve his jump shot and help defense. Big-time rebounder, works hard on his own." I could hear them say the exact same thing about Kofi.
 
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The conflation between getting guys to the NBA and one-and-done is a bit misplaced. I don't want to be Kentucky or Duke -- in fact, I'd say that Krzyzewski is getting a good primer on why he doesn't/shouldn't want to be so reliant on freshmen every season. The goal (to me) should be to be like Michigan under Beilein, where he was notorious for developing guys and getting guys that were and were not on NBA radars to the league. Some of these guys were good enough to go after their freshman year, which was great for them, and some needed a few more years, which was great for the program. It was sustainable, it was attractive to recruits, and most importantly, it was a combination that resulted in lots of winning.
 
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Has anyone seen Garza mentioned in the first round of any mocks cause I haven't. If he isn't making the leap next year Kofi has zero chance.
Paraphrasing some comments from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic on his most recent Big Board (requires subscription): https://theathletic.com/1554532/202...arent-performing-so-lets-focus-on-the-risers/

On Garza: Essentially he isn't athletic enough to defend in the NBA, and his offensive strength of post moves just isn't used these days. Likely could have a good Euro career.

On Kofi: Pluses right now are space eating inside & offensive rebounding. Minuses/points to develop are passing, shooting, defending in space, and defensive rebounding. Thinks he profiles similar to Udoka Azubuike from Kansas. Too raw at this stage to draft, but in a few years would become draftable. Would be a developmental player with probably a good amount of time in the G-Leauge.
 
On Kofi: Pluses right now are space eating inside & offensive rebounding. Minuses/points to develop are passing, shooting, defending in space, and defensive rebounding. Thinks he profiles similar to Udoka Azubuike from Kansas. Too raw at this stage to draft, but in a few years would become draftable. Would be a developmental player with probably a good amount of time in the G-Leauge.
So basically everything that's really valued in the modern NBA? Cool, cool.
 
The conflation between getting guys to the NBA and one-and-done is a bit misplaced. I don't want to be Kentucky or Duke -- in fact, I'd say that Krzyzewski is getting a good primer on why he doesn't/shouldn't want to be so reliant on freshmen every season. The goal (to me) should be to be like Michigan under Beilein, where he was notorious for developing guys and getting guys that were and were not on NBA radars to the league. Some of these guys were good enough to go after their freshman year, which was great for them, and some needed a few more years, which was great for the program. It was sustainable, it was attractive to recruits, and most importantly, it was a combination that resulted in lots of winning.
First, isn't the one and done rule leaving in a few years? Not sure it was official or not. It wont stop guys from leaving after their freshman year, but it'll thin out those who actually are one and done.

Second, while I agree taking a few one and dones can be detrimental to a team as a whole, I don't think Krzyzewski is disheartened by kids leaving after a year... Duke's lost more than ten games twice since 2000, while winning 3 NCAA tournaments. They're consistently (and currently) ranked in the top 10. It's a pipe dream to hope to be in Duke's position, but to say you wouldn't want to be is wierd, unless you don't like having national championship caliber teams.

I will say being like a Michigan or Wisconsin (under Ryan) is much, much, much more achievable, so yeah that's a good place to strive to be, but to prefer it to being a blue blood doesn't make sense.
 
First, isn't the one and done rule leaving in a few years? Not sure it was official or not. It wont stop guys from leaving after their freshman year, but it'll thin out those who actually are one and done.

Second, while I agree taking a few one and dones can be detrimental to a team as a whole, I don't think Krzyzewski is disheartened by kids leaving after a year... Duke's lost more than ten games twice since 2000, while winning 3 NCAA tournaments. They're consistently (and currently) ranked in the top 10. It's a pipe dream to hope to be in Duke's position, but to say you wouldn't want to be is wierd, unless you don't like having national championship caliber teams.

I will say being like a Michigan or Wisconsin (under Ryan) is much, much, much more achievable, so yeah that's a good place to strive to be, but to prefer it to being a blue blood doesn't make sense.
No vote/decision on the one-and-done rule yet...I believe that would happen when the NBA and NBPA negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement, which I thiiiink happens this summer.

My point wasn't that he's disheartened by kids leaving or that we shouldn't want to be in Duke's competitive position. The point is that it can be very up and down when you rely so heavily on freshmen as the centerpieces of your team. One year you're lucky and get Anthony Davis or KAT, the next you get Nick Richards. Making your team fully reliant on incoming freshmen can be somewhat dicey, especially when you consider that there are only so many uber-talented freshmen each year and we're not going to be beating Kentucky or Duke at their own game anytime soon.

When I said I don't want to be Kentucky or Duke, I say that because I personally mean it -- my in-laws are Kentucky fans and each year they have to reacquaint themselves with (almost) an entirely new team. What fun is that? Whereas Michigan fans get to follow a lot of the same guys each year while sometimes getting the Mitch McGary or Brazdeikis flash-in-the-pan. That, to me, is the ideal -- the benefits of elite talent without losing the joy that is watching college athletes grow and become synonymous with their school.
 
Paraphrasing some comments from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic on his most recent Big Board (requires subscription): https://theathletic.com/1554532/202...arent-performing-so-lets-focus-on-the-risers/

On Garza: Essentially he isn't athletic enough to defend in the NBA, and his offensive strength of post moves just isn't used these days. Likely could have a good Euro career.

On Kofi: Pluses right now are space eating inside & offensive rebounding. Minuses/points to develop are passing, shooting, defending in space, and defensive rebounding. Thinks he profiles similar to Udoka Azubuike from Kansas. Too raw at this stage to draft, but in a few years would become draftable. Would be a developmental player with probably a good amount of time in the G-Leauge.
He needs to [lay like a big man that he is. When he does he will jump to his full potential. He is a long way from Shaq and i dont know if he will get htere but he can certainly make a ton of money. Kofi deserves the best but if he listens to all of us drinking kool aid he will be messing up.

Garza who is nt a first round pick is going to be a major issue for him.
 
The Transfer Portal
I think it's funny how you cherry-pick what you respond to.

This site counts Kendrick Nunn. https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/Illinois/3/nba-players

Even not counting Nunn, we're still at 4 and Dee did accrue 2 years of service time.

I didn't invent any hang up about one-and-dones. It was you who brought up the gulf between us and "being Kentucky" (unsure of why quotes were used since I never said that) so I asked about one-and-dones since the programs I mentioned didn't have any.

You guys are inventing this tangible benefit of having Kofi leave early when he clearly is not ready. There is not a single mock draft that has Kofi anywhere near the first round. This entire discussion is kind of silly, to be honest. Caleb Swanigan may be Kofi's best comp for a path to the NBA and even he had more hype/was rated higher coming out of HS than Kofi did. An NBA scout said of Swanigan after his freshman year, "I think he has a chance if he can improve his jump shot and help defense. Big-time rebounder, works hard on his own." I could hear them say the exact same thing about Kofi.
I'm not cherry-picking anything. Regardless of what's on RealGM, nobody would count him - he left the program and his play somewhere else got him to the league. If Mark Smith made the league, would you count him?

In a vacuum, do I think he could use another year? Yeah - it's a lot more demanding to be an NBA big man in 2020 than it was 10 or 15 years ago. But I'm not a scout and neither are you, and there's no clear-cut line of being "NBA ready" - it depends on what individual teams need and want. I agree that he probably needs to expand his offense away from the basket a bit - but what if there's a team out there that's taken with him and wants him to do that development under their watch? Teams draft guys based on upside all the time. There's a non-zero chance of that happening, and if he gets an assurance like that, then that's awesome for him.
 
Given this boards back and forth about the benefits of Kofi going pro and when...it would be interesting to assess how often having a one-and-done actually helps future recruiting. How often is a school that just produced a one-and-done player able to capitalize and recruit another top 20ish player within 2-3 years? How many times does getting a Trae Young lead to more top players, versus putting the program back in a similar position the following year when he's gone?
 
Chicago, IL
I want to know how Shaun Livingston's representation came up with that number.
 
The conflation between getting guys to the NBA and one-and-done is a bit misplaced. I don't want to be Kentucky or Duke -- in fact, I'd say that Krzyzewski is getting a good primer on why he doesn't/shouldn't want to be so reliant on freshmen every season. The goal (to me) should be to be like Michigan under Beilein, where he was notorious for developing guys and getting guys that were and were not on NBA radars to the league. Some of these guys were good enough to go after their freshman year, which was great for them, and some needed a few more years, which was great for the program. It was sustainable, it was attractive to recruits, and most importantly, it was a combination that resulted in lots of winning.
Yes, college programs these days, rather than develop, recruit over players, and then quietly encourage players to find other places. Many people in the forums have the same attitude, especially in the recruiting and transfer chats. There have been (maybe are) players on the Illinois roster that are seen as placeholders until something new and shiny comes along. Creaning, it's not a a good thing.
 
Yes, college programs these days, rather than develop, recruit over players, and then quietly encourage players to find other places. Many people in the forums have the same attitude, especially in the recruiting and transfer chats. There have been (maybe are) players on the Illinois roster that are seen as placeholders until something new and shiny comes along. Creaning, it's not a a good thing.
So I’m just gonna say I disagree with most of this. You know when you sign somewhere that your coaches are gonna keep recruiting. You know when you play sports that you need to work your butt off for your spot or you’re gonna get passed up. You know that if you don’t practice well or take advantage of your opportunities you’re not gonna play. You know if the team is doing well without you playing your chances get fewer and farther between or they just don’t come again.

None of the above is a shock to anybody. The only real problem is that the ncaa doesn’t allow student athletes to transfer without penalty when they’ve tried it somewhere and its not gonna work out. Sports are competitive, and when done correctly, one of the few true meritocracies in life. The problem would be if the coach didn’t recruit, and push his guys in practice. One of the truest things John Groce ever said was players play players. He never followed that, but if you don’t develop, or outplay you’re teammate, or perform in the classroom, or follow team rules, you’re not getting minutes.
 
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