AD Whitman talks Lovie Smith

#26      

RedRocksIllini

Morrison, CO
Lovie Smith will be extended before that time. Whitman, like most AD's do not like to have coache with their contracts less than three years. Other coaches pounce on that in recruiting.

Hopefully you are correct. But suppose next year doesn't go well and we repeat a 2-10 season or something along those lines where progress is not at all clear. And maybe the 2019 recruiting class is rated as poorly as 2018. Do you extend him then? I wouldn't. (Nor would I consider firing him at that point.)

Maybe Whitman is laying the groundwork for post-2018 in the event the faithful become considerably less faithful. Or maybe Whitman avoids this unpleasant possibility and extends him after this season.

Ideally, this is all moot and an extension after next season is an easy decision.
 
#27      
I just listened to the press conference again. The question that elicits Whitman's response is very benign. "what do you tell the fan base after this year".

The response is classic Whitman, just what you would expect from the "smartest man in the room". It is measured, the race analogy is perfect, no "duhs" and "uhs". Lets nip this in the bud.

It is so good that you got the impression that JW was hoping this question would be asked.

Lovie inherited the worst dumpster fire in P5 football and JW just told every football coach in the state, "this man has my complete backing, he is going to be the coach for the long haul, you are not wasting your time developing a relationship with him".

Our AD is a smooth operator.
 
#28      
I think Purdue potentially make a bowl game in year one of Brohm is contributing to the restlessness of our fan base. (Or maybe I'm just more sensitive to it since it's in my back yard.)
 
#29      

sbillini

st petersburg, fl
I think Purdue potentially make a bowl game in year one of Brohm is contributing to the restlessness of our fan base. (Or maybe I'm just more sensitive to it since it's in my back yard.)

Agreed. Let's be honest with ourselves...when Lovie was first hired, did any of us predict that we'd be the worst team in the Big 10 and probably bottom 5 in P5 in his second year, particularly considering the amount of cash we put into him the overall coaching staff? I'm willing to put $ on there were just as many people saying "he'll coach 'em up, even if they are Beckman's kids, so at least it won't get worse" as there were saying "it's going to be a long rebuilding". I don't think any of us expected miracles like challenging Wisconsin, Iowa, or even NW right now, but I don't think a vast majority of us would have seen Purdue, Rutgers, and Indiana moving past us too.

in that context, I think it's absolutely fair to ask the question and for JW to spend time addressing it. Do I still have faith in the staff? Yes. But did I expect us to take this much of a step back in year 2? No. Will I give the benefit of the doubt to the notion that TB's recruiting is the primary culprit? yes. But I just hope I'm not wrong in that, and the data so far increases the likelihood that I am.
 
#30      

RedRocksIllini

Morrison, CO
I think Purdue potentially make a bowl game in year one of Brohm is contributing to the restlessness of our fan base. (Or maybe I'm just more sensitive to it since it's in my back yard.)

Might very well be contributing but it's a pretty poor comparison. Purdue was not the smoking hole that Lovie inherited. Rutgers might be a better comparison but I don't know if their overall athletic department was as much of a mess as ours.
 
#31      
Might very well be contributing but it's a pretty poor comparison. Purdue was not the smoking hole that Lovie inherited. Rutgers might be a better comparison but I don't know if their overall athletic department was as much of a mess as ours.

Purdue finished behind Illinois in Overall and Conference record every year from 2013-2016. I think they were in even WORSE shape than Illinois and Brohm has seemingly turned it around in a year. They have a +3 point differential in the B1G compared to Illinois whopping -150.

I think it's fair to be restless, maybe the "Program" isn't a national embarassment anymore but the Football Team is FAR worse than what people expected they'd be at this point in time.

I'm all for giving Lovie 5 years, because let's face it, Illinois isn't getting anything else. But I also fully expect completely empty stadiums and poor recruiting classes to continue. Illinois football has fallen a long way just from the Zook era.
 
#32      

RedRocksIllini

Morrison, CO
Purdue finished behind Illinois in Overall and Conference record every year from 2013-2016. I think they were in even WORSE shape than Illinois and Brohm has seemingly turned it around in a year. They have a +3 point differential in the B1G compared to Illinois whopping -150.

I think it's fair to be restless, maybe the "Program" isn't a national embarassment anymore but the Football Team is FAR worse than what people expected they'd be at this point in time.

I'm all for giving Lovie 5 years, because let's face it, Illinois isn't getting anything else. But I also fully expect completely empty stadiums and poor recruiting classes to continue. Illinois football has fallen a long way just from the Zook era.

Absolutely agree that it's fair to be restless. But comparing where we are with Purdue doesn't work for me. Purdue isn't dealing with a nearly 3 year stretch of hampered recruiting (Beckman's last year, Cubit's year and Lovie's first partial year). Smith and Whitman are working on a complete ground-up rebuild.

It is going to be painful (and, for all I know, might be unsuccessful.) However, it can be done. Colorado went through almost exactly the same process starting 5 years ago. It was brutal for their fans but was really their only way out. They had a downturn this year but they are much better than they were 5 years ago. I'm all for restless. It's much better than indifferent.
 
#33      

SKane

Tennessee
I am concerned but not giving up. Lovie seems like an honorable person and Thomas certainly set the program back with the hiring of Beckman.

However, after 50+ years of following Illinois football, I don't know whether I have enough tolerance for disappointment to "commit to the process", whatever that is supposed to mean as far as a fan is concerned.
 
#34      

BZuppke

Plainfield
If you take the time to look at Purdue you’ll note they have a lot more upper class men and experience at qb. Very different situation.
 
#35      
If you take the time to look at Purdue you’ll note they have a lot more upper class men and experience at qb. Very different situation.

Correct it is Apples to Oranges.

Purdue has only a few underclassmen in their 3 Deep, let alone starting.
 
#36      

radiodj

Houston
Correct it is Apples to Oranges.

Purdue has only a few underclassmen in their 3 Deep, let alone starting.

+1 with or without Brohm, Purdue was banking on this year and next being their "coming out party." They have a 2-3 year head start on their rebuild.
 
#37      

Deleted member 649710

D
Guest
Was there any P5 program other than the Illini dealing with (a) twenty-five years of mostly terrible results on the field, (b) bottom-of-the-line facilities, (c) a University administration distracted by scandals/resignations, (d) a significant portion of the alumni base turned off by the aforementioned situations and the kneecapping of the longtime University Symbol, (e) a roster devoid of talent in a mediocre recruiting territory, (f) a team going on its third head coach in ten months, and (g) several coaches and an AD recently fired due to a scandal arising from medical/psychological mistreatment of student-athletes?

No, no there was not.

I literally cannot think of a bigger dumpster fire for a coach to walk into over the past 30 years, other than post-death penalty SMU. Have patience.
 
#38      

mattcoldagelli

The Transfer Portal
Agreed. Let's be honest with ourselves...when Lovie was first hired, did any of us predict that we'd be the worst team in the Big 10 and probably bottom 5 in P5 in his second year, particularly considering the amount of cash we put into him the overall coaching staff?

I kind of did, yeah.

I thought we would maybe be a bit better this year, but then pretty much every player of consequence got hurt.
 
#39      
Was there any P5 program other than the Illini dealing with (a) twenty-five years of mostly terrible results on the field, (b) bottom-of-the-line facilities, (c) a University administration distracted by scandals/resignations, (d) a significant portion of the alumni base turned off by the aforementioned situations and the kneecapping of the longtime University Symbol, (e) a roster devoid of talent in a mediocre recruiting territory, (f) a team going on its third head coach in ten months, and (g) several coaches and an AD recently fired due to a scandal arising from medical/psychological mistreatment of student-athletes?

No, no there was not.

I literally cannot think of a bigger dumpster fire for a coach to walk into over the past 30 years, other than post-death penalty SMU. Have patience.

I've been busy and not around much. But let me offer some perspective for those within the fanbase that are more skeptical, or at least my reasons for remaining skeptical.

For those of us that either do not have the time or the inclination to follow recruiting, we rely on the reporters, the coaching staff, and those of you that do to have an understanding of how the re-build is going. The issue is that we were given very similar stories during the early stages of the Beckman years. Zook had depleted the roster by giving up on recruiting. The previous AD was terrible. Beckman is building the depth and culture that is necessary to succeed in the Big Ten. If you go back to those threads early on, you'll see exactly the same types of enthusiasm for him. It was less universal because people were turned off by his personality, but there were many on this board preaching patience and telling us that everything was Zook's fault.

It is for that reason that many of us are skeptical despite the optimism of many of you who follow things more closely. That is why I'll reserve my optimism for when we beat out several good programs for recruits or when we actually win some games on the field.

Despite my skepticism, Lovie was a great hire at that time. Sometimes good decisions don't work. This one may still prove to be a winner, but I'll wait and see.
 
#40      
I think Purdue potentially make a bowl game in year one of Brohm is contributing to the restlessness of our fan base. (Or maybe I'm just more sensitive to it since it's in my back yard.)

I think the real difference is Purdue had a quarterback that could throw the ball we didn’t. I am old enough to have seen Mike Whites team and for the most part the first year was sling it all over the field. The fans loved it. In our case we had one year of a serviceable but often injured quarterback then nothing. I applaud the players for trying but we were hopelessly outclassed and for the most part still are. 2 years from now we should see a representative team and if all goes well be on our way. Time will tell.
 
#41      
The issue is that we were given very similar stories during the early stages of the Beckman years. Zook had depleted the roster by giving up on recruiting. The previous AD was terrible. Beckman is building the depth and culture that is necessary to succeed in the Big Ten.

Those things were all true. Beckman had a solid third season and had a strong junior class that looked like they had a chance to break through as seniors.

The problem was that little scandal involving player abuse was an intervening factor. The lost recruiting years we have are from the years after the scandal broke and the Cubit interregnum.

Beckman's trajectory as coach here should be seen as an encouraging sign rather than a discouraging sign since I think we can all be reasonably sure that Coach Smith can do at least as well while not abusing his players.
 
#42      
Beckman's trajectory as coach here should be seen as an encouraging sign rather than a discouraging sign since I think we can all be reasonably sure that Coach Smith can do at least as well while not abusing his players.

While also having significantly more talented players
 
#43      

DrewD007

Woodridge, IL
Beckman’s problem was his reliance on JuCo players, hence why we only have 20ish upperclassmen now.
 
#44      

Deleted member 4333

D
Guest
Agreed. Let's be honest with ourselves...when Lovie was first hired, did any of us predict that we'd be the worst team in the Big 10 and probably bottom 5 in P5 in his second year, particularly considering the amount of cash we put into him the overall coaching staff? I'm willing to put $ on there were just as many people saying "he'll coach 'em up, even if they are Beckman's kids, so at least it won't get worse" as there were saying "it's going to be a long rebuilding". I don't think any of us expected miracles like challenging Wisconsin, Iowa, or even NW right now, but I don't think a vast majority of us would have seen Purdue, Rutgers, and Indiana moving past us too.

in that context, I think it's absolutely fair to ask the question and for JW to spend time addressing it. Do I still have faith in the staff? Yes. But did I expect us to take this much of a step back in year 2? No. Will I give the benefit of the doubt to the notion that TB's recruiting is the primary culprit? yes. But I just hope I'm not wrong in that, and the data so far increases the likelihood that I am.

I may be wrong, but seem to remember a lot of talk last year on this board that this year was going to be the absolute bottom of the barrel because of the way class balance has worked out. I had no expectations of a winning product this year, so I'm not disappointed . . . yet. I'm still willing to give it another two seasons before passing judgment.
 
#45      

FT35

Naperville
I've been busy and not around much. But let me offer some perspective for those within the fanbase that are more skeptical, or at least my reasons for remaining skeptical.

For those of us that either do not have the time or the inclination to follow recruiting, we rely on the reporters, the coaching staff, and those of you that do to have an understanding of how the re-build is going. The issue is that we were given very similar stories during the early stages of the Beckman years. Zook had depleted the roster by giving up on recruiting. The previous AD was terrible. Beckman is building the depth and culture that is necessary to succeed in the Big Ten. If you go back to those threads early on, you'll see exactly the same types of enthusiasm for him. It was less universal because people were turned off by his personality, but there were many on this board preaching patience and telling us that everything was Zook's fault.

Meh. Regardless of what people were saying, I remember walking out of Memorial Stadium after the loss to Louisiana Tech in 2012 feeling like this would be a dead program as long as TB was the head coach. I've never really felt that way with Smith as the head coach, in spite of the poor results.

I will say that the next couple of years exceeded my expectations. I expected 0 wins heading into 2013 and the ROT miracles of 2014 got us to a bowl game. 2014 especially looked like a lost cause after the loss to Purdue. We'll see what happens.

Quite frankly, people should be skeptical as this staff really has not shown us the finished product as of yet and won't for a couple of years. Until then, I hold reservations about whether or not they can turn this program around.

I at least like the way they are attempting to rebuild this program as opposed to TB's infusion of JUCO players into the program. If this staff can't get the job done, they are laying a foundation that will make the transition to another staff much easier.

I currently see a Big Ten defense on the field that will be better next year. The DTs, LBs and Safeties have been very impressive at times this year.

The offense HAS to improve, however. There's just no way we can expect more than a couple of wins next year if we don't see drastic improvements from the QBs, OL and TEs. I really don't see how the play from these positions could get worse so I can only hope they get better. I liked the improvement we had in WRs this year over 2016 but it's a much harder and slower process to fix problems with the QBs and OL.

If we're seeing the same offensive production next year then I would look for changes to the staff on that side of the ball.

Other than that, I'm content with Lovie staying as the Head Coach through the end of his contract. I do see players being held accountable for mistakes on and off the field. I also see players who continue to play hard regardless of the game situation.
 
#46      
Neither our defense nor our offense are particularly great, but our offense is awful. I can respect that we're building a program, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think we'd see more progress by now. My expectations are now so low that I would be happy with bowl eligibility before 2020...
 
#47      
When 4 of your last 7 QB recruits are no longer with the program, 2 of the remaining 3 are hurt, and the only guy left had recently been converted to TE before having to come back to the position because there was literally no one else who could do it...

When your top 2 running backs are true freshman and are both hurt...

When your top 2 wide receivers are both hurt...

When you are starting 4 true freshmen on the offensive line because those are the best linemen you have...

Your offense is going to suck.

People do understand that this is an array of circumstances unlikely to repeat themselves in the next couple years, right?
 
#48      

Illiini

In the land of the Nittany Lion
Does anyone remember we had a 17 year old starter at defensive end this year? That's the same age as a lot of high school juniors.

And speaking of 17, isn't that how many kids we have out injured? And those, of course because they were playing when they were hurt, are the best we have. I'll posit that without the injuries--remember how Epstein electrified the field before his foot was broken, and that's just starters--there would have been more than one game we would have won. A young, raw and not fully grow team, short of talent at QB, and taken apart piece by piece by injuries?

As for Lovie, JW's not about to cut him loose. Josh is here for the long haul. I think Illinois is his last job...and it will be a long time before he retires.Lovie has said he wants this to be his last job, and I don't expect he'll be leaving any time soon. Where would he go? Who would, if he doesn't turn Illinois around, hire him? And if he does work the team up to where we all thought he could, I suspect he won't be retiring at 65 to start collecting unemployment. I think he wants to coach as long as his health holds out. Or at least until he can turn over a respectable team to a top flight coach.

And for us... I've seen worse from Illinois, and I reason to expect improvement, and yes, a premier team. The pieces are there and coming. Go ahead and bail. The rest of us will get to say I told you so.
 
#49      
Agreed. Let's be honest with ourselves...when Lovie was first hired, did any of us predict that we'd be the worst team in the Big 10 and probably bottom 5 in P5 in his second year, particularly considering the amount of cash we put into him the overall coaching staff? I'm willing to put $ on there were just as many people saying "he'll coach 'em up, even if they are Beckman's kids, so at least it won't get worse" as there were saying "it's going to be a long rebuilding". I don't think any of us expected miracles like challenging Wisconsin, Iowa, or even NW right now, but I don't think a vast majority of us would have seen Purdue, Rutgers, and Indiana moving past us too.

in that context, I think it's absolutely fair to ask the question and for JW to spend time addressing it. Do I still have faith in the staff? Yes. But did I expect us to take this much of a step back in year 2? No. Will I give the benefit of the doubt to the notion that TB's recruiting is the primary culprit? yes. But I just hope I'm not wrong in that, and the data so far increases the likelihood that I am.

I was actually more disappointed last year than I am this year. So, while it might not have been when Lovie was first hired, it soon became apparent to me that things were worse off than I thought they were and this wasn't going to be a quick turnaround. And as far as recruiting, though Lovie hasn't hit any major home runs I think he's getting his foot in the door with better recruits and we'll start to make some gains there. But let's be honest. It is going to take some success on the field before we start pulling in any 4* with regularity. Yet despite all that, I thought last year's class was very strong (in Illinois terms) and better than rated. And this year's class has two QBs to go along with Cam -- giving us some hope at QB. If our QB had been decent this year, I think we would have had a couple more wins.
 
#50      

FT35

Naperville
When 4 of your last 7 QB recruits are no longer with the program, 2 of the remaining 3 are hurt, and the only guy left had recently been converted to TE before having to come back to the position because there was literally no one else who could do it...

When your top 2 running backs are true freshman and are both hurt...

When your top 2 wide receivers are both hurt...

When you are starting 4 true freshmen on the offensive line because those are the best linemen you have...

Your offense is going to suck.

People do understand that this is an array of circumstances unlikely to repeat themselves in the next couple years, right?

You're certainly right but just to play devil's advocate....

Not to be one of those, but Kramer is a Redshirt Freshman, not a True Freshman, and has been one of the few surprising bright spots on the offensive side of the ball. He was also a grey shirt who is a legacy so that makes his play this year all the more surprising. The play from the OL has really been at its best with him at Center. This is an example of a player you can point to and say that the staff has done a good job of developing him and would give us hope for the future.

However, I'm just not seeing many other players outplaying expectations on the offensive side. I give Trenard Davis credit for stepping up and at least making the rotation at WR after being moved to a 3rd position in 3 years. However, a surprise like this is offset by the disappointment in realizing that Sam Mays has 0 receptions this year.

I'm fine with Boyd and Palczewski starting but I doubt that Lowe is better than DiLauro. DiLauro has been injured at times this year but there are also times when he's been used as a 6th Offensive Lineman, been used at other spots besides LT or has been benched. Lowe was injured during training camp and missed most of September due to an injury and the staff decides to start him at one of the most important positions on the OL after the Nebraska game? He really should have been Red Shirted and given time to learn the offense but all I can hope right now as a fan is that the repetitions he got this year are going to pay off in the future. Allegretti has played up to expectations but is obviously at his best as a Guard as opposed to Center.

We also have the problem where Megginson, who was one of the highest rated players Illinois has had this decade (right around where Avery is at), has not been very good. His play at LT against Ball State was just dreadful. Is this a coaching problem or was he just very overrated? He had a lot of great offers so I'm hesitant to blame the last staff for his failure to develop. I will say our lack of depth at OL is frighteningly bad and not this staff's fault. I would love to see a massive turnover from the OL who are behind Freshmen on the depth chart.

I would argue that Foster is one of the top 2 RBs on the roster and that the staff gave up on him too quickly. He was the MVP of the offense last year (as named by this staff!!) and he was essentially out of the rotation after the Ball St. game. Yes, Epstein is obviously better but I don't know about Bonner.

This goes back to a point where this staff gives up on some of these Seniors (like Foster and DiLauro) a little too quickly in favor of just playing Freshmen. Are we going to continue seeing this? I would hope we don't see this at OL because even 5 star players struggle as true freshmen. Will we see Slaughter playing at LT over Lowe next year? It may be necessary and that's a scary thought since he, like Palczewski is young for his class (turns 18 in August of 2018).

I don't know if players are injured or how injured certain players are but benching guys like Foster and DiLauro just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Also at QB, they could have done a better job of trying to bring in a graduate transfer as opposed to hoping that Crouch could maintain what we saw against Purdue last year for an entire season. I can see why the staff loves Thomas so much but Lawson not showing up here was a massive failure on the staff's part.

TE has been a disaster for the most part this season. Dorsey is an impact player but he's a project who can't block at all. I can see why he got offers from schools like LSU as a Sophomore in HS, but they were offering him as a WR, not a TE. We're now at the point where a walk on (Blackwell) is getting a lot of snaps at TE. I don't blame the staff for this since a lot of guys listed at TE should not be on scholarship and have been moved from a number of other positions. However, I hope a guy like Barker is a better all around prospect at TE since I don't see Dorsey gaining that much strength in 9 months. Right now I'd honestly rather see him out of the slot as a taller WR than see him line up at TE. I've only seen a bit of tape of Barker but that was from last year and I didn't see him blocking at all in that clip. He was lining up in the slot most of the time from what I could see.

The staff is looking at a graduate transfer at WR for next year. I would not mind seeing the staff go after a graduate transfer at LT and/or QB as well, especially if Crouch transfers as well as a number of OL. If not, we could be looking at true Freshmen starting at these spots next year, and I honestly don't want to see that. This would also help class balance since we're looking at another year where there will be a low number of Seniors and the Class of 2019 could be very small. A graduate transfer over a reach at certain positions wouldn't necessarily hinder the rebuild.

All of your points are valid but the above is why I'm still somewhat concerned about the offense going forward and whether this current staff is the answer.

I don't think it's asking too much for improvement next year from this offense. Honestly, how could they be much worse? How many meaningful touchdowns have they scored in conference play? I would be surprised if it's over a handful. The question is how much are they going to improve? I have no problem with being patient but we have to get better. The defense is getting to the point of being average in the Big Ten but I have a hard time seeing this offense being anything but the worst next yearwithout drastic improvements.
 
Last edited: