AD Whitman talks Lovie Smith

#51      

Ander1345

A
Ander1345
I get the skepticism from fans, and I think Rutgers was at the lowest I've ever been as an Illini fan. But I think Lovie is theman for the job. The team has shown flashes but I think coach Mcgee has just looked lost at times. I don't know if there needs to be a change but we were just very predictablr and could not capitalize on mistmatches.

But overall I still think the arrow is trending upward in a meaningful way. It has to be... right?

If Lovie can't get this program going in the right direction I don't think anyone can. I'm a big Lovie fan so obviously biased. But outside of torturing Saban until he left Alabam I don't know who could do it.
 
#52      

RedRocksIllini

RedRocksIllini
Morrison, CO
RedRocksIllini
FT35 said:
You're certainly right but just to play devil's advocate....

Not to be one of those, but Kramer is a Redshirt Freshman, not a True Freshman, and has been one of the few surprising bright spots on the offensive side of the ball. He was also a grey shirt who is a legacy so that makes his play this year all the more surprising. The play from the OL has really been at its best with him at Center. This is an example of a player you can point to and say that the staff has done a good job of developing him and would give us hope for the future.

However, I'm just not seeing many other players outplaying expectations on the offensive side. I give Trenard Davis credit for stepping up and at least making the rotation at WR after being moved to a 3rd position in 3 years. However, a surprise like this is offset by the disappointment in realizing that Sam Mays has 0 receptions this year.

I'm fine with Boyd and Palczewski starting but I doubt that Lowe is better than DiLauro. DiLauro has been injured at times this year but there are also times when he's been used as a 6th Offensive Lineman, been used at other spots besides LT or has been benched. Lowe was injured during training camp and missed most of September due to an injury and the staff decides to start him at one of the most important positions on the OL after the Nebraska game? He really should have been Red Shirted and given time to learn the offense but all I can hope right now as a fan is that the repetitions he got this year are going to pay off in the future. Allegretti has played up to expectations but is obviously at his best as a Guard as opposed to Center.

We also have the problem where Megginson, who was one of the highest rated players Illinois has had this decade (right around where Avery is at), has not been very good. His play at LT against Ball State was just dreadful. Is this a coaching problem or was he just very overrated? He had a lot of great offers so I'm hesitant to blame the last staff for his failure to develop. I will say our lack of depth at OL is frighteningly bad and not this staff's fault. I would love to see a massive turnover from the OL who are behind Freshmen on the depth chart.

I would argue that Foster is one of the top 2 RBs on the roster and that the staff gave up on him too quickly. He was the MVP of the offense last year (as named by this staff!!) and he was essentially out of the rotation after the Ball St. game. Yes, Epstein is obviously better but I don't know about Bonner.

This goes back to a point where this staff gives up on some of these Seniors (like Foster and DiLauro) a little too quickly in favor of just playing Freshmen. Are we going to continue seeing this? I would hope we don't see this at OL because even 5 star players struggle as true freshmen. Will we see Slaughter playing at LT over Lowe next year? It may be necessary and that's a scary thought since he, like Palczewski is young for his class (turns 18 in August of 2018).

I don't know if players are injured or how injured certain players are but benching guys like Foster and DiLauro just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Also at QB, they could have done a better job of trying to bring in a graduate transfer as opposed to hoping that Crouch could maintain what we saw against Purdue last year for an entire season. I can see why the staff loves Thomas so much but Lawson not showing up here was a massive failure on the staff's part.

TE has been a disaster for the most part this season. Dorsey is an impact player but he's a project who can't block at all. I can see why he got offers from schools like LSU as a Sophomore in HS, but they were offering him as a WR, not a TE. We're now at the point where a walk on (Blackwell) is getting a lot of snaps at TE. I don't blame the staff for this since a lot of guys listed at TE should not be on scholarship and have been moved from a number of other positions. However, I hope a guy like Barker is a better all around prospect at TE since I don't see Dorsey gaining that much strength in 9 months. Right now I'd honestly rather see him out of the slot as a taller WR than see him line up at TE. I've only seen a bit of tape of Barker but that was from last year and I didn't see him blocking at all in that clip. He was lining up in the slot most of the time from what I could see.

The staff is looking at a graduate transfer at WR for next year. I would not mind seeing the staff go after a graduate transfer at LT and/or QB as well, especially if Crouch transfers as well as a number of OL. If not, we could be looking at true Freshmen starting at these spots next year, and I honestly don't want to see that. This would also help class balance since we're looking at another year where there will be a low number of Seniors and the Class of 2019 could be very small. A graduate transfer over a reach at certain positions wouldn't necessarily hinder the rebuild.

All of your points are valid but the above is why I'm still somewhat concerned about the offense going forward and whether this current staff is the answer.

I don't think it's asking too much for improvement next year from this offense. Honestly, how could they be much worse? How many meaningful touchdowns have they scored in conference play? I would be surprised if it's over a handful. The question is how much are they going to improve? I have no problem with being patient but we have to get better. The defense is getting to the point of being average in the Big Ten but I have a hard time seeing this offense being anything but the worst next yearwithout drastic improvements.
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Thanks for both of these posts today. Agree with all of what you're saying and wish I could say it as well or with as much insight. One question on the offensive line: We lost 3 guys off the depth chart after one of the stupidest robberies ever committed. Any thoughts on how much that may have impacted us this year?
 
#53      

Hoppy2105

H
Little Rock, Arkansas
Hoppy2105
IntenselyOrange said:
It is for that reason that many of us are skeptical despite the optimism of many of you who follow things more closely. That is why I'll reserve my optimism for when we beat out several good programs for recruits or when we actually win some games on the field.

Despite my skepticism, Lovie was a great hire at that time. Sometimes good decisions don't work. This one may still prove to be a winner, but I'll wait and see.
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Since you can't always rely on star power, getting recruits that have offers from other good programs is definitely a strong way to measure recruiting success. The bolded above has already been done so rejoice!

2017 Class with other good offers:
Ricky Smalling - Wisconsin
Kendrick Green - Iowa, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Ole Miss
Delshawn Phillips - Arizona
Larry Boyd - Arkansas, Missouri, Purdue, Wisconsin
Owen Carney - Arkansas, Duke, FSU, Georgia, Louisville, LSU, Miami, Miss State, Purdue, Tenn
Carmoni Green - UNC, Florida, Washington State
Lere Oladipo - MSU, Missouri, PSU
Tony Adams - Missouri
Louis Dorsey - Baylor, FSU, LSU, UNC, South Carolina, WVU
Mike Epstein - Cincinnati, Louisville, Michigan, WVU
Bobby Roundtree - IU, Louisville, MSU, Miss State, NC State, VT
Ra'Von Bonner - Cincy, Iowa

2018 Class with good offers:
Calvin Avery - ASU, Arkansas, FSU, Miss State, Missouri, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TCu, Texas, Texas A&M, USC, Washington
Kievan Myers - Colorado, Miss St, Missouri, WVU
Khalan Tolson - Cincy, Louisville, Michigan, MSU, Miss St
Ron Hardge III - Miss St, NC State, Pitt

Most of those guys in the '17 class came near the end of the recruiting year so hopefully we get several more good pickups as the year comes to a close. Also, this list doesn't include ALL "good" offers or even "average team" offers. I also left some P5 schools off simply because they "aren't good".

As you can see, we have found several players that are sought after by good programs. And, luckily, some of the guys without a lot of major offers (Bennet Williams and Nate Hobbs) have been diamonds in the rough.
 
#54      

FT35

FT35
Naperville
FT35
RedRocksIllini said:
Thanks for both of these posts today. Agree with all of what you're saying and wish I could say it as well or with as much insight. One question on the offensive line: We lost 3 guys off the depth chart after one of the stupidest robberies ever committed. Any thoughts on how much that may have impacted us this year?
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This is actually a great question and maybe someone else can answer it better than I can. However, I'll give it a shot.

Losing Lee and Watkins certainly hurt our depth.

I don't know if Watkins would have played over Kramer at Center, but he certainly could have been an option when Kramer got hurt during the Ball St. game. This would have kept Allegretti at LG as opposed to moving him to Center where he just wasn't as good.

Lee started a couple of games as a true Freshman so it's possible he could have played this year over guys who got spot starts like Faggan and Martin, although that only happened because Allegretti had to move to Center after Kramer got hurt. It should also be pointed out that after Lee got kicked off the team, it was revealed that he had already been suspended for violating team rules back in January. Who knows if he would have gotten out of the dog house but the lack of Offensive Tackles was a bigger issue this year and Lee probably wouldn't have helped there.

I don't know what to make of Holcombe? He was the highest rated guy from the Class of 2016 but he really should have been red shirted. They put him out there when they were desperate for play makers in 2016 and he really didn't help much. The fact that the staff moved him to DE from TE was already a major red flag. It was also revealed that he was suspended for violating team rules before getting kicked off the team so I don't know if he would have helped this year. Maybe he could have helped while Crawford was suspended but it's unlikely he would have gotten snaps over Carney and Gay at WDE.

They could have helped this year but it's hard to say what their impact would have been. Probably not that much. Watkins getting kicked off the team actually opened up the scholarship for Hayes since losing him brought us back under the scholarship limit for the Class of 2017.
 
#55      

champaignchris

C
champaignchris
Ander1345 said:
The team has shown flashes but I think coach Mcgee has just looked lost at times. I don't know if there needs to be a change but we were just very predictablr and could not capitalize on mistmatches.
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What mismatches?

Our entire two-deep roster of skill position players is hurt and we're starting four freshmen on offensive line.

I don't understand why that's so hard for people to get. We started this year as an overmatched offense and have only gotten worse as pretty much every skill position player of any importance has gotten injured. There isn't an OC in the country that could do anything with this offense.
 
#56      

RedRocksIllini

RedRocksIllini
Morrison, CO
RedRocksIllini
FT35 said:
This is actually a great question and maybe someone else can answer it better than I can. However, I'll give it a shot.

Losing Lee and Watkins certainly hurt our depth.

I don't know if Watkins would have played over Kramer at Center, but he certainly could have been an option when Kramer got hurt during the Ball St. game. This would have kept Allegretti at LG as opposed to moving him to Center where he just wasn't as good.

Lee started a couple of games as a true Freshman so it's possible he could have played this year over guys who got spot starts like Faggan and Martin, although that only happened because Allegretti had to move to Center after Kramer got hurt. It should also be pointed out that after Lee got kicked off the team, it was revealed that he had already been suspended for violating team rules back in January. Who knows if he would have gotten out of the dog house but the lack of Offensive Tackles was a bigger issue this year and Lee probably wouldn't have helped there.

I don't know what to make of Holcombe? He was the highest rated guy from the Class of 2016 but he really should have been red shirted. They put him out there when they were desperate for play makers in 2016 and he really didn't help much. The fact that the staff moved him to DE from TE was already a major red flag. It was also revealed that he was suspended for violating team rules before getting kicked off the team so I don't know if he would have helped this year. Maybe he could have helped while Crawford was suspended but it's unlikely he would have gotten snaps over Carney and Gay at WDE.

They could have helped this year but it's hard to say what their impact would have been. Probably not that much. Watkins getting kicked off the team actually opened up the scholarship for Hayes since losing him brought us back under the scholarship limit for the Class of 2017.
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Thanks for the insight. Very much appreciated.
 
#57      

Ander1345

A
Ander1345
champaignchris said:
What mismatches?

Our entire two-deep roster of skill position players is hurt and we're starting four freshmen on offensive line.

I don't understand why that's so hard for people to get. We started this year as an overmatched offense and have only gotten worse as pretty much every skill position player of any importance has gotten injured. There isn't an OC in the country that could do anything with this offense.
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That's fair. I guess it kind of felt more like we couldn't play to the strengths our offense should have had.
 
#58      

Hoppy2105

H
Little Rock, Arkansas
Hoppy2105
Ander1345 said:
That's fair. I guess it kind of felt more like we couldn't play to the strengths our offense should have had.
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Our strengths were a quick running back in Epstein and a solid receiving corps. The O line was a weakness due to youth which took away our ability for long developing passes and losing Dudek took away our short pass safety valve.

Losing Epstein took away the other strength. It's not that we don't try to get the ball to Dorsey or Smalling or Cam Thomas but our few strengths are overshadowed by our youth weakness and injury weakness.
 
#59      

Deleted member 4333

D
Guest
Deleted member 4333
Why so many injuries? Are we just overmatched against bigger stronger teams? Are we not properly conditioned? Do we not have enough money to buy the proper equipment? Just bad luck?
 
#67      

Thor015

T
Thor015
I'm good with Lovie for 5+ years easy. Unless our teams just show no desire to play. I'm not going to be foolish to think we will be able to get a higher profile coach then Lovie.

Even if the next 2 years are 2-10, I'm still fine waiting.
 
#68      

aiwpfan

aiwpfan
Springfield, Il
aiwpfan
I don't expect we will see much (if any) improvement with regards to wins and losses next season.

But, what I do expect is that when the team loses, they will lose close. To me that will be significant progress. Then in 2019, I expect we will turn many of those close losses into close wins. If those things do not happen, I expect we will see significant changes.
 
#69      

Illiniaaron

I
Geneseo, IL
Illiniaaron
Thor015 said:
I'm good with Lovie for 5+ years easy. Unless our teams just show no desire to play. I'm not going to be foolish to think we will be able to get a higher profile coach then Lovie.

Even if the next 2 years are 2-10, I'm still fine waiting.
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If they are 2-10 the next two years, then Lovie is not the guy.
 
#71      

Mike55

Mike55
Mike55
Lovie met with all the coaches today individually.

He is finally aware of just how many players dislike 3 of the coaches. To quote one coach, "They're just not good guys & at times, very mean."

Bad coaching is one thing, but when young men and other staff members recognize you as "not a good person," you may need to leave in order to create a more positive culture.
 
#72      

MadSeason

MadSeason
MadSeason
In 1998 we were 3-8 fresh off a winless season the year before and with little to no hope going into 1999. Our Sophomore starting QB had thrown 1 TD and 7 Interceptions the year before.

We started 2 Freshman and 1 senior at receiver. Our O-line had 1 Frosh, 2 Soph and 2 juniors. Fullback was a Sophomore and Tailbacks were Sr and Soph. Last but not least was our Jr. Tight End otherwise known as our current Athletic Director. That team went 8-4 with a bowl win and finished in top 25.

We look to be similarly situated on offense next year with a lot of underclassmen, who have had a ton of game experience and took their lumps this year. You cannot overstate what difference a year can make. Not only physically but mentally everything slows down and get easier.

I think maybe history repeats itself next year and hopefully we build a more stable program after that than Turner was able to do back in 1999.
 
#73      

IlliniMed

I
Lillington, N.C.
IlliniMed
Mike55 said:
Lovie met with all the coaches today individually.

He is finally aware of just how many players dislike 3 of the coaches. To quote one coach, "They're just not good guys & at times, very mean."

Bad coaching is one thing, but when young men and other staff members recognize you as "not a good person," you may need to leave in order to create a more positive culture.
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Interesting. Didn't know the coaching staff was an issue