Blackhawks '18-'19

#27
Houston, Texas
Anton Forsberg out for the game tonight. Collin Delia called up to replace him. Good thing they are playing Ottawa.
 
#28
Because drafting is lucky, staying healthy is lucky, playing teams at the right time is lucky.

Of course, theres plenty that goes into drafting the right player and such, but sports have a pretty large amount of luck involved in them anyways. What if Toews was drafted by either team ahead of the Hawks, or they passed on Kane, or either of those guys had a major injury that kept them out of the playoffs any year they won? Those possibilities are real, especially the last one. I'd wager to say 75% of the teams that make the playoffs have at least a 10% chance of winning it all, and the highest probability isn't more than 25-35%, mainly because of luck.

I wont sit here and say some Joe Schmo could've came into the Hawks after Tallon and built the roster Bowman did, because thats absolutely not true. he made great signings (Hossa I believe was one of his first, but I could be wrong), and he made the right choices on resigning/not resigning a lot of players. He extended the window for this team. Honestly, probably all he could've done. Hindsight is dangerous, but albatross contracts that initially extended the dynasty, are and have forced it closed much faster. As it stands right now, I still think he's a top half GM, but his questionable signings and resignings and players he's drafted are building up. This year is the culmination.

That all said, no chance I change anything about the past decade for the hawks, thats something some franchises never experience. But a lot of people like calling Bowman a "wizard" and "genius", when in reality, most of his decisions were made by the time he took over. And the ones he has had a say in, are generally negative.
 
#29
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Because drafting is lucky, staying healthy is lucky, playing teams at the right time is lucky.

Of course, theres plenty that goes into drafting the right player and such, but sports have a pretty large amount of luck involved in them anyways. What if Toews was drafted by either team ahead of the Hawks, or they passed on Kane, or either of those guys had a major injury that kept them out of the playoffs any year they won? Those possibilities are real, especially the last one. I'd wager to say 75% of the teams that make the playoffs have at least a 10% chance of winning it all, and the highest probability isn't more than 25-35%, mainly because of luck.

I wont sit here and say some Joe Schmo could've came into the Hawks after Tallon and built the roster Bowman did, because thats absolutely not true. he made great signings (Hossa I believe was one of his first, but I could be wrong), and he made the right choices on resigning/not resigning a lot of players. He extended the window for this team. Honestly, probably all he could've done. Hindsight is dangerous, but albatross contracts that initially extended the dynasty, are and have forced it closed much faster. As it stands right now, I still think he's a top half GM, but his questionable signings and resignings and players he's drafted are building up. This year is the culmination.

That all said, no chance I change anything about the past decade for the hawks, thats something some franchises never experience. But a lot of people like calling Bowman a "wizard" and "genius", when in reality, most of his decisions were made by the time he took over. And the ones he has had a say in, are generally negative.
Okey, then. (y)
 
#30
Geneseo, IL
Because drafting is lucky, staying healthy is lucky, playing teams at the right time is lucky.

Of course, theres plenty that goes into drafting the right player and such, but sports have a pretty large amount of luck involved in them anyways. What if Toews was drafted by either team ahead of the Hawks, or they passed on Kane, or either of those guys had a major injury that kept them out of the playoffs any year they won? Those possibilities are real, especially the last one. I'd wager to say 75% of the teams that make the playoffs have at least a 10% chance of winning it all, and the highest probability isn't more than 25-35%, mainly because of luck.

I wont sit here and say some Joe Schmo could've came into the Hawks after Tallon and built the roster Bowman did, because thats absolutely not true. he made great signings (Hossa I believe was one of his first, but I could be wrong), and he made the right choices on resigning/not resigning a lot of players. He extended the window for this team. Honestly, probably all he could've done. Hindsight is dangerous, but albatross contracts that initially extended the dynasty, are and have forced it closed much faster. As it stands right now, I still think he's a top half GM, but his questionable signings and resignings and players he's drafted are building up. This year is the culmination.

That all said, no chance I change anything about the past decade for the hawks, thats something some franchises never experience. But a lot of people like calling Bowman a "wizard" and "genius", when in reality, most of his decisions were made by the time he took over. And the ones he has had a say in, are generally negative.
Actually I think Bowman has been average at best. Tallon built the meat of the roster that won the three Cups, including signing Hossa. Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Kane, Toews, Crawford, Hjarlmalson (probably spelled incorrectly), as well as Hossa were all brought in by him. The big reason he was canned was that apparently Wirtz felt he mishandled the salary cap, which resulted in a necessary talent dump after the first championship. However what did we see after the next two cups when Bowman was in control? Salary dumps both times. I really cant think of any stellar moves that Bowman made other than bringing in Johnny Oduya and drafting Panarin, who he traded away to get back Saad. He continually traded away decent prospects in the minors to add on veteran pieces that more often than not didn't work out. I think this will probably be his last season as GM.
 
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#31
I really cant think of any stellar moves that Bowman made other than bringing in Johnny Oduya.
Drafted Saad, Shaw, Teraveinen, Schmaltz, DeBrincat and now Jokiharju, with no high picks to work with. And signed Artemi Panarin.

Constantly made little deals for missing pieces of the puzzle. Guys like Michael Handzus and Andrew Desjardin and Antoine Vermette and Brad Richards.

He did many things right. But it's the mistakes that hurt. The Bickell contract and the Seabrook contract both did enormous damage.
 
#32
Actually I think Bowman has been average at best. Tallon built the meat of the roster that won the three Cups, including signing Hossa. Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Kane, Toews, Crawford, Hjarlmalson (probably spelled incorrectly), as well as Hossa were all brought in by him. The big reason he was canned was that apparently Wirtz felt he mishandled the salary cap, which resulted in a necessary talent dump after the first championship. However what did we see after the next two cups when Bowman was in control? Salary dumps both times. I really cant think of any stellar moves that Bowman made other than bringing in Johnny Oduya and drafting Panarin, who he traded away to get back Saad. He continually traded away decent prospects in the minors to add on veteran pieces that more often than not didn't work out. I think this will probably be his last season as GM.
Generally I agree, but I still think a lot of other GMs would've panicked, probably tried to trade one of the core guys for something quality back, maybe not resign both Kane and Toews, etc. That took balls to tie up that kind of money and it worked (though we are seeing a little bit of the issue here, again hindsight). And you're forgetting a ton of the little things he did that did bolster the roster. Sure he traded guys like Teuvo, Hartman, and Danault away. But signing Panarin, drafting guys like Schmaltz and Debrincat, those are quality moves.

There were plenty of little signings too that helped the team out. Like I said, still think he's a top half of the league GM, but this upcoming season is going to be very telling. Might change my tune at the end.
 
#33
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
But it's the mistakes that hurt. The Bickell contract and the Seabrook contract both did enormous damage.
Bickell actually gave the Hawks a small hometown discount. Can't hang the MS diagnosis on Bowman. And, yes, extremely fortuitous timing from Bicks on his Cup/contract run.

Seabs' contract: massive, massive, MASSIVE error. Think McD had something to do with it.
 
#35
Geneseo, IL
Drafted Saad, Shaw, Teraveinen, Schmaltz, DeBrincat and now Jokiharju, with no high picks to work with. And signed Artemi Panarin.

Constantly made little deals for missing pieces of the puzzle. Guys like Michael Handzus and Andrew Desjardin and Antoine Vermette and Brad Richards.

He did many things right. But it's the mistakes that hurt. The Bickell contract and the Seabrook contract both did enormous damage.
Saad was a good pick. However he had to dump him in a salary cap problem of his own making. Anisimov is the only decent return he got in that trade. How can you give him credit for drafting Teraveinin when he had to throw him in on the Bickell deal so Carolina would eat his contract? Panarin had one good season with the Hawks and was traded to get Saad back. That looks like a bad trade. And I agree Schmaltz and DeBrincat look good, the book is hardly written on them.
 
#36
Saad was a good pick. However he had to dump him in a salary cap problem of his own making. Anisimov is the only decent return he got in that trade. How can you give him credit for drafting Teraveinin when he had to throw him in on the Bickell deal so Carolina would eat his contract? Panarin had one good season with the Hawks and was traded to get Saad back. That looks like a bad trade. And I agree Schmaltz and DeBrincat look good, the book is hardly written on them.
Because he did draft Teuvo...? Just because he traded him away doesn't mean he doesn't get credit for drafting him, if he hadn't he wouldn't have been able to trade him and we would've had to give up another talent. A mistake doesn't erase the good of the past, just changes the overall perspective of the future.
 
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#37
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Sure, that stuff becomes tough to disentangle.

Was Bowman the one trading the future for the present year after year, or were those his operating instructions?
When you have a legit Cup contender, you ALWAYS try to add. Sure, some moves didn't work out. But Bowman always added at the TDL.
 
#38
Geneseo, IL
Because he did draft Teuvo...? Just because he traded him away doesn't mean he doesn't get credit for drafting him, if he hadn't he wouldn't have been able to trade him and we would've had to give up another talent. A mistake doesn't erase the good of the past, just changes the overall perspective of the future.
Boy I don't understand that reasoning at all. Yes it was a good pick. But you don't get credit for that when you screw it up later. Teraveinin had one good year with the Hawks. He was then moved to alleviate a big Bowman mistake which was the Bickell contract. Not comparing Teraveinin to Lou Brock, but that would be like giving the Cubs credit for drafting Lou Brock. Too bad they effed it up later trading him.
 
#39
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Saad was a good pick. However he had to dump him in a salary cap problem of his own making. Anisimov is the only decent return he got in that trade. How can you give him credit for drafting Teraveinin when he had to throw him in on the Bickell deal so Carolina would eat his contract? Panarin had one good season with the Hawks and was traded to get Saad back. That looks like a bad trade. And I agree Schmaltz and DeBrincat look good, the book is hardly written on them.
TT was the cost of moving Bicks contract. Sucks, big time. But the Hawks were up against it (the cap) and had to move Bicks' contract.

You have to look at Bowman's trades in the context of the cap and where the Hawks' sat at that particular time. Take Sharp, for example. Jim Nil (Dallas GM), took Bowman to the cleaners. The cost of taking Sharp (and his $5M contract) was our big, good D prospect (whose name escapes me).

Panarin is UFA after this season. Probably in line for $10M/per. That's why Bowman moved him. Saad had a horrible shooting percentage, but all his other stats were good. Hopefully, he'll bounce back. Playing with Kane and Schmaltz, no excuses. Hawks have him for 3 more seasons after this, IIRC. He's younger than Panarin. Yes, 100%, Panarin is a much better player than Saad. But in a hard cap world, salary and # of years under contract are also very important too.
 
#40
TT was the cost of moving Bicks contract. Sucks, big time. But the Hawks were up against it (the cap) and had to move Bicks' contract.

You have to look at Bowman's trades in the context of the cap and where the Hawks' sat at that particular time. Take Sharp, for example. Jim Nil (Dallas GM), took Bowman to the cleaners. The cost of taking Sharp (and his $5M contract) was our big, good D prospect (whose name escapes me).

Panarin is UFA after this season. Probably in line for $10M/per. That's why Bowman moved him. Saad had a horrible shooting percentage, but all his other stats were good. Hopefully, he'll bounce back. Playing with Kane and Schmaltz, no excuses. Hawks have him for 3 more seasons after this, IIRC. He's younger than Panarin. Yes, 100%, Panarin is a much better player than Saad. But in a hard cap world, salary and # of years under contract are also very important too.
The d-man you are referring to is Stephen Johns.
 
#42
Might be a long season, but very nice to see Toews with 2 pts and a +3. Thats the kind of season we'll need out of him if we are gonna make noise.
 
#45
Houston, Texas
Because drafting is lucky, staying healthy is lucky, playing teams at the right time is lucky.

Of course, theres plenty that goes into drafting the right player and such, but sports have a pretty large amount of luck involved in them anyways. What if Toews was drafted by either team ahead of the Hawks, or they passed on Kane, or either of those guys had a major injury that kept them out of the playoffs any year they won? Those possibilities are real, especially the last one. I'd wager to say 75% of the teams that make the playoffs have at least a 10% chance of winning it all, and the highest probability isn't more than 25-35%, mainly because of luck.

I wont sit here and say some Joe Schmo could've came into the Hawks after Tallon and built the roster Bowman did, because thats absolutely not true. he made great signings (Hossa I believe was one of his first, but I could be wrong), and he made the right choices on resigning/not resigning a lot of players. He extended the window for this team. Honestly, probably all he could've done. Hindsight is dangerous, but albatross contracts that initially extended the dynasty, are and have forced it closed much faster. As it stands right now, I still think he's a top half GM, but his questionable signings and resignings and players he's drafted are building up. This year is the culmination.

That all said, no chance I change anything about the past decade for the hawks, thats something some franchises never experience. But a lot of people like calling Bowman a "wizard" and "genius", when in reality, most of his decisions were made by the time he took over. And the ones he has had a say in, are generally negative.
I would say overall I disagree. Yes, there is some luck involved for sure but I wouldn't say it mostly due to luck.

You made a comment about staying players staying healthy. Sure, there is some luck that you're not run at and hit in the head. But these guys work on their fitness and nutrition and that helps them to fight the nagging injuries or to prevent them from becoming seriously injured during the grind of a season.

Edmonton had the first pick in the draft at least three years in a row and won exactly zero cups. That's not unlucky, that's just poor drafting and development. Would the Hawks have been worse if they took Phil Kessel or Nick Backstrom? I doubt it. There are a lot of good players at the top of drafts so yeah, there is some luck in getting that draft order due to the lottery but after that, it's on the team to develop those players. And yeah, some is on the player themselves if they don't develop (Cam Barker is but on example).

Then there is the whole fitting them in under the salary cap which really has nothing to with luck and has everything to do with math. The fact that Bowman had to dismantle the team after 2010 and still won two more cups after that should speak volumes.

Is he the greatest GM ever? Probably not. But to say he had been lucky to win the other two cups is minimizing his contribution, IMO.
 
#46
Houston, Texas
Might be a long season, but very nice to see Toews with 2 pts and a +3. Thats the kind of season we'll need out of him if we are gonna make noise.
Ward was bad in the first period but really turned it around in the second and third. D really needs to tighten up. it's early so they have plenty of time to get the ship righted. Toews was excellent all night. Cat was good, too. Kahun is really fast.
 
#47
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Ward was bad in the first period but really turned it around in the second and third. D really needs to tighten up. it's early so they have plenty of time to get the ship righted. Toews was excellent all night. Cat was good, too. Kahun is really fast.
Forsling and Murphy will help, quite a bit. Seabs looks quicker and faster. But, yeah, the D isn't good. Far too many grade A chances. The Blues and the Leafs are gonna feast.

Yep, the Captain looked great. Hope he can keep it up.
 
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#48
They have done it Tess!
Wildwood
Forsling and Murphy will help, quite a bit. Seabs looks quicker and faster. But, yeah, the D isn't good. Far too many grade A chances. The Blues and the Leafs are gonna feast.

Yep, the Captain looked great. Hope he can keep it up.
Going to need a healthy Crow.

And don't forget we started off last year 10-1 against Pittsburgh and 5-1 against Columbus, two very good teams. So early performance is not indicative of how the season will turnout.
 
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