Blackhawks '19-'20

#76
Houston, Texas
What is HF? I lurk on the Hawks forum on hockeybuzz.com and it’s run pretty well. Lots of Stan haters and lots of guys who beat on the same stuff day after day. Gotta sift through the nonsense.
 
#78
What is HF? I lurk on the Hawks forum on hockeybuzz.com and it’s run pretty well. Lots of Stan haters and lots of guys who beat on the same stuff day after day. Gotta sift through the nonsense.
One man's nonsense is another man's truth. :giggle:

Enjoy HF. I believe it skews overly optimistic and positive to Stan, but that's my reading. I don't have any issues with a positive view of Stan - it's the needless potshots at Q that bug me over there. You would think there would be enough credit for everyone after the decade of dominance, but some people are apparently super hard to please.
 
Likes: bdutts
#80
Jokiharju traded to Buffalo for Alexander Nylander, a former top draft pick who has looked Dolly Parton levels of bust-y, even in the AHL.

And a D man for a forward.

Someone's gonna have to explain that one to me.
 
#81
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Jokiharju traded to Buffalo for Alexander Nylander, a former top draft pick who has looked Dolly Parton levels of bust-y, even in the AHL.

And a D man for a forward.

Someone's gonna have to explain that one to me.
First thoughts: confusion and anger. Hawks must be very high on Mitchell and Boqvist. Plus, Joker is eligible for the expansion draft. Keith and Seabs must be protected (NMC). Guess their hoping Nylander will be another Strome. Kid is 21 and went 8th in 2016.
 
Likes: IanKEvans2
#83
First thoughts: confusion and anger. Hawks must be very high on Mitchell and Boqvist. Plus, Joker is eligible for the expansion draft. Keith and Seabs must be protected (NMC). Guess their hoping Nylander will be another Strome.
It's just strange to me because I don't get how this was the best trade they could've gotten for Jokiharju. If Bowman/Colliton wanted him moved fine, but why now if we were gonna get this as the return?

I'd honestly have been happier if they packaged him with AA for next to nothing compared to this.
 
#85
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
AmericanDream, HF board poster sums it up perfectly, IMO: "...we have a hole on the #2 RW..if you feel Shaw can be that guy then great, but if AA gets moved out Shaw could center that third line and Nylander seems like the type of talent that could explode next to Strome and Cat.

we traded from a position of strength to bring in a wild card to help fill an area of weakness."
 
Likes: bdutts
#86
A Legend in My Own Mind
Montgomery, IL
we traded from a position of strength to bring in a wild card to help fill an area of weakness."
Seeing as the defense was the major issue last season, I don't see how anyone can consider that a "position of strength".
 
Likes: Illiniaaron
#87
Seeing as the defense was the major issue last season, I don't see how anyone can consider that a "position of strength".
It's theoretically a position of strength within the Hawks prospect pool. We've certainly drafted plenty of D recently so there's not going to be room for them all if a decent percentage pan out.

I don't hate the idea of this deal but given that most do from the Hawks perspective, both locally and nationally, it feels like we could have gotten more for Joker. If Nylander is a gem waiting to be freed from a bad franchise, similar to Strome, then we're missing the Perlini sweetener this time. Doesn't feel good right now.
 
Likes: bdutts
#88
I go with these guys all the time and they wrap up my feelings pretty well today as well (excessive f-bombs included):

https://faxesfromuncledale.com/stan-bowman-is-a-moron-and-henri-jokiharju-is-better-off/
I'll never forgive them for convicting Kane before any facts were uncovered and the way they treated their readers during the process. Then they changed their name to further satisfy the PC crowd, as if it mattered. No clicks from me.

Yes, I can hold a grudge.
 
Likes: Ramrod2010
#89
First thoughts: confusion and anger. Hawks must be very high on Mitchell and Boqvist. Plus, Joker is eligible for the expansion draft. Keith and Seabs must be protected (NMC). Guess their hoping Nylander will be another Strome. Kid is 21 and went 8th in 2016.
Nylander will be eligible also, so I doubt that was a factor in this trade.
 
#90
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Seeing as the defense was the major issue last season, I don't see how anyone can consider that a "position of strength".
RHD prospects: Joker, Boqvist, Mitchell, others

Hawks must feel that Boqvist and Mitchell are better and have higher ceilings. Also, Joker is not expansion draft exempt, the other RHD are.
 
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#91
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Nylander will be eligible also, so I doubt that was a factor in this trade.
Yes, Nylander is eligible. Can only protect 3 D. Must protect Keith and Seabs (NMCs). The math here sucked.

To your point though, this was probably a secondary concern (if that). Main takeaway is the Hawks value Boqvist and Mitchell higher than Jokiharju.
 
Likes: bdutts
#92
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
I don't hate the idea of this deal but given that most do from the Hawks perspective, both locally and nationally, it feels like we could have gotten more for Joker. If Nylander is a gem waiting to be freed from a bad franchise, similar to Strome, then we're missing the Perlini sweetener this time. Doesn't feel good right now.
This. Change of scenery trade, it's going to take awhile to determine who won. Nylander's skill set is impressive, but he hasn't been able to put it all together yet. Injuries and mishandling have contributed. Play him with Cat and Strome, and watch the magic happen (hopefully!). As to valuation, probably yet another case of fans overvaluing their prospects. At first, I was in WTF? mode (we could've gotten more!), but have calmed down. Understand Bowman's reasoning. Just have to wait and see.
 
#93
This. Change of scenery trade, it's going to take awhile to determine who won. Nylander's skill set is impressive, but he hasn't been able to put it all together yet. Injuries and mishandling have contributed. Play him with Cat and Strome, and watch the magic happen (hopefully!). As to valuation, probably yet another case of fans overvaluing their prospects. At first, I was in WTF? mode (we could've gotten more!), but have calmed down. Understand Bowman's reasoning. Just have to wait and see.
It's not just Chicago fans overvaluing Joker. He was selected for the men's world championships so Finnish hockey guys saw that ability also after his early season NHL stint and then his play at the world juniors. I've yet to read any national media report on this trade that doesn't include the word puzzling, reclamation, or underachieving.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/blackhawks-send-jokiharju-to-sabres-for-nylander-in-surprising-prospect-swap
https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/07/09/trade-sabres-nab-jokiharju-blackhawks-receive-alex-nylander/

It may work out, but Stan's hitting on 17 here.
 
#95
Oswego, IL
I'll never forgive them for convicting Kane before any facts were uncovered and the way they treated their readers during the process. Then they changed their name to further satisfy the PC crowd, as if it mattered. No clicks from me.

Yes, I can hold a grudge.
Ha, fair enough. I still value their hockey acumen though I agree with your feelings regarding the Kane situation.
 
#96
Houston, Texas
Jokiharju traded to Buffalo for Alexander Nylander, a former top draft pick who has looked Dolly Parton levels of bust-y, even in the AHL.

And a D man for a forward.

Someone's gonna have to explain that one to me.
I'm neutral on this. They have plenty of D prospects coming up soon (Mitchell, Boqvist, Beaudin and others) and need (potential) impact forwards. While Nylander's numbers aren't eye popping, he did improve his production every year in the A when he was a teenager (he's 20 years old now). And it kinda sounds like he didn't like the way he was handled in Buffalo, kinda like Jokiharju didn't like getting sent to juniors.

I guess a question for me would be this: If Murphy wasn't injured to start the year, where would Jokiharju have started his season? And would everyone be as up in arms about this trade? I know we can't go back in time but would everyone have been this upset not having seen Jokiharju play an NHL game?
 
#97
I'm neutral on this. They have plenty of D prospects coming up soon (Mitchell, Boqvist, Beaudin and others) and need (potential) impact forwards. While Nylander's numbers aren't eye popping, he did improve his production every year in the A when he was a teenager (he's 20 years old now). And it kinda sounds like he didn't like the way he was handled in Buffalo, kinda like Jokiharju didn't like getting sent to juniors.

I guess a question for me would be this: If Murphy wasn't injured to start the year, where would Jokiharju have started his season? And would everyone be as up in arms about this trade? I know we can't go back in time but would everyone have been this upset not having seen Jokiharju play an NHL game?
My gut reaction was just that the Hawks need defensive depth an awful lot more than they need another forward. Seems like a 50th percentile short-term outcome on Jokiharju is of more value to the team as currently constructed than a 75th percentile short-term outcome on Nylander.

But of course I say that not knowing the Hawks prospects intimately. Maybe those other guys are better.
 
#98
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
But of course I say that not knowing the Hawks prospects intimately. Maybe those other guys are better.
And there's the hedge. One absolute, for sure takeaway, is that the Hawks view Boqvist >> Joker and Mitchell > Joker. That Mitchell isn't signed, doubt Buffalo does the deal with him instead of Joker (not that the Hawks would, IMO). There's now a clear path for Mitchell and I believe he'll sign a contract very shortly after DU's season ends.

No telling who wins this one for awhile.
 
Likes: bdutts
#99
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
I guess a question for me would be this: If Murphy wasn't injured to start the year, where would Jokiharju have started his season? And would everyone be as up in arms about this trade? I know we can't go back in time but would everyone have been this upset not having seen Jokiharju play an NHL game?
Nope & nope. Great point.
 
Houston, Texas
And there's the hedge. One absolute, for sure takeaway, is that the Hawks view Boqvist >> Joker and Mitchell > Joker. That Mitchell isn't signed, doubt Buffalo does the deal with him instead of Joker (not that the Hawks would, IMO). There's now a clear path for Mitchell and I believe he'll sign a contract very shortly after DU's season ends.

No telling who wins this one for awhile.
This right here. Was reading yesterday that while the Hawks front office liked Jokiharju, they thought he didn't excel at any part of the game. The other guys like Boqvist, Mitchell, Beaudin excel in part of the game and should be young enough to be taught the other parts they "struggle" with.

Agreed, we will have to most likely wait a couple of years and see how it all shakes out.