Coaching Discussion/Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#26
Cary, IL
This is an interesting point. I'm not suggesting our guys are either selfish or egotistical, but we can't afford to bench them...too thin. Also, as we struggle, they may feel more pressure to perform individually, if only because they want the team to succeed...kind of a Catch 22.

It's different for teams like KU, Duke and NC; they have several guys who are capable of being alpha dogs, so they get it done as a team, or ride the bench. Also, with a higher talent level, there's more trust that your teammates will deliver...I don't know if this team feels that way about all their teammates.

Finally...I promise...I agree with others that Kofi and Georgi are not doing well together. BU has to fix this. He has to show he can figure things out, or next year will be his last. For the record, I hope he gets the team turned around this year, I crave stability in the program. I want to talk about who other programs will hire.

If my logic is specious, please feel free to correct me...I ain't no guru.
Thanks for the new word. By the way, I don't think your logic is specious.
 
#27
Who is even available or a good target to be poached?
Underwood isn't likely to go anywhere for a while. He's staying after this year based on the incoming recruiting class. If we lose Ayo and add Hawkins, Curbelo and Miller and see some improvement, he'll keep his job beyond that based on promise. Now if Miller backs out or signs elsewhere, Ayo leaves and GB leaves (maybe to go play in Europe), and Kofi leaves and the rest of this season tanks, then things might be different. So who might be available? IDK- this job is like the football job. With each new coach and each bad run, the job gets less appealing. Weber recruited poorly and then when he recruited well, he couldn't get them to play together. Groce was poor recruiting and coaching. Underwood seems to have a good eye for talent, be able to at least employ assistant coaches that can recruit but something strategy-wise or preparation wise or coaching wise or chemistry wise is missing for sure.

As far as names that might be considered...

I think an obvious candidate and likely taker would be Steve Henson. He's winning at Texas-San Antonio and would have a Lon Kruger endorsement.
I would like Anthony Grant but he seems to have things rolling at Dayton and that's his alma mater. Depending on who you believe, Grant has had chances to accept a job here and declined interest. I'd also like Jared Haase from Stanford but I can't imagine he'd leave his situation at Stanford especially since he is from California.

Other names that come to mind would be Ben Jacobsen at UNI, maybe Brian Wardle with his success at Bradley. Some names to really consider IMO- Johnny Dawkins(UCF), James Jones (Yale), TJ Otzelberger (UNLV- things aren't going great there so far but TJ is a good coach and recruiter and would do very well back in the Midwest) Damon Stoudamire (has Pacific winning again), Baker Dunleavy (a Jay Wright guy doing well in his time at Quinnipiac but more of an east coast guy obviously), Ronald Nored (Midwest roots, Brad Stevens guy, NBA Hornets).

A wild card? Maybe Shaka Smart is looking to hit the eject button.
 
#28
the Front Range
At this juncture, I don’t see many good options besides the guy at the helm. Maybe that will change by the end of the season, but I think Brad is the best option we have. He is better than the product we put out there this year (and years past). A lot of reasons why this might be the case, but brad is a talented coach. If he’s fired, he’ll do well in his next stop.
 
#29
Underwood isn't likely to go anywhere for a while. He's staying after this year based on the incoming recruiting class. If we lose Ayo and add Hawkins, Curbelo and Miller and see some improvement, he'll keep his job beyond that based on promise. Now if Miller backs out or signs elsewhere, Ayo leaves and GB leaves (maybe to go play in Europe), and Kofi leaves and the rest of this season tanks, then things might be different. So who might be available? IDK- this job is like the football job. With each new coach and each bad run, the job gets less appealing. Weber recruited poorly and then when he recruited well, he couldn't get them to play together. Groce was poor recruiting and coaching. Underwood seems to have a good eye for talent, be able to at least employ assistant coaches that can recruit but something strategy-wise or preparation wise or coaching wise or chemistry wise is missing for sure.

As far as names that might be considered...

I think an obvious candidate and likely taker would be Steve Henson. He's winning at Texas-San Antonio and would have a Lon Kruger endorsement.
I would like Anthony Grant but he seems to have things rolling at Dayton and that's his alma mater. Depending on who you believe, Grant has had chances to accept a job here and declined interest. I'd also like Jared Haase from Stanford but I can't imagine he'd leave his situation at Stanford especially since he is from California.

Other names that come to mind would be Ben Jacobsen at UNI, maybe Brian Wardle with his success at Bradley. Some names to really consider IMO- Johnny Dawkins(UCF), James Jones (Yale), TJ Otzelberger (UNLV- things aren't going great there so far but TJ is a good coach and recruiter and would do very well back in the Midwest) Damon Stoudamire (has Pacific winning again), Baker Dunleavy (a Jay Wright guy doing well in his time at Quinnipiac but more of an east coast guy obviously), Ronald Nored (Midwest roots, Brad Stevens guy, NBA Hornets).

A wild card? Maybe Shaka Smart is looking to hit the eject button.
Miller is "110% Committed" per his interview with Jim Mattson Thursday night at Miller's BBall Camp in Peoria.
 
#31
It is sometimes much easier to motivate and get people to buy into a process, when same persons are not as talented/headstrong as others.

BU may be able to motivate good players who aren't the Big Men on Campus so to speak as players, simply because they want to succeed collectively more so than the highly ranked guy may want to do with a group?

Much the same as Coach X is a great college coach, but his style doesn't translate to the pro's....can't handle the stars, can't motivate the ego's, can't scheme for the alpha males? BU may be that guy as a coach...great in college (SFA), but his style doesn't translate to the pro's (P-5) players?

Other than that, not sure what the issues are other than we have less talent than other P-5 teams still to this day...by less talent, I mean coaching as well btw.
You hit the nail on the head. Great post
 
#36
I want BU for at least one more year. I want to see a roster with all his guys. If he can't make it work then, move on.
 
#37
I haven't seen a reason to have faith in Underwood, and he's gotten a pass for all kinds of issues over the past 2 1/2 seasons.

I'm not saying I've given up, though. I'll wait and see what we do the rest of the way. He's got a lot of good qualities, and a very good basketball mind. Even good coaches look pretty miserable when their players don't execute. But at the college level, a $3m/yr coach has way to much control to excuse this level results. I do think that players need time to learn how to win, and he's got a relatively young roster. But the effort needed to run his system is higher than what we're getting, and motivation is part of a coach's job.

Very frustrating given the hope and fan expectations.
 
#38
Rockford, IL
Bottom line is that 1-5 against Power Five teams in your third year as head coach
not only doesn't pass the eye test, it passes no test. Very discouraged. Our offense looked like the
proverbial monkey ________ a football last night.
 
#39
What is a disaster? Kenpom has us finishing 17-14. Is that a disaster? While it has us going 17-14, it actually only has us favored in 6 more games which would be 15-16. Is sub .500 a disaster? I think if we don't even get an NIT invite, that MUST qualify as a disaster, right? I agree that it has to be a disaster for him to get fired, I'm just not sure how far we are from disaster land currently.
We are 9-5, 1-2 in conference play.

I think Underwood stays as long as Illinois gets 7 more regular season wins which would be 1 more than last year and would have us at 16-15, 8-12 in conference. (as long as Adam Miller is still coming)

That would be terrible compared to preseason expectations but with our 2020 recruiting class and our young roster there’s still a ton of upside for next season that we don’t want to throw away yet.
 
Likes: Halloweenie
#40
Part of the problem that our fan base refuses to accept is just how far we have fallen. When looking at both of the "revenue" sports, instant success is what people want. Unfortunately that's usually not how this works. When both programs fall to the levels that ours have reached (why they got there is a completely different discussion) it becomes a monumental task for nearly ANYONE to rebuild.

Take football as a prime example. Josh Whitman was able to hire a former NFL Coach of the Year who lead a team to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman as it's QB. The National Media went crazy over the hire. Less than 3 months ago (4 years into his tenure), the vocal majority (at least on this board) wanted him gone. He won a few crazy games, got to a bowl, and most of those vocal majority, for now, have seemed to calm.

Here we are in SEASON 3 of what most everyone would agree was a complete rebuild. We sit at 9-5 currently against, I agree, a weaker schedule overall. Yet, our losses currently are on the road at Arizona RPI 30, by 2 to Miami RPI 41, by 1 on the road at Maryland RPI 5, Missouri RPI 118, and on the road MSU RPI 14.

Missouri, no excuse, bad loss. Most teams in year 3 of a complete rebuild are going to have bad losses, it's apart of the game. (Bad losses also creep up on Blue Bloods in a non rebuild, i.e. Kentucky, Evansville). Those same teams in rebuild mode are also going to have great wins, Michigan RPI 24. Right now, this team is really struggling with the most important aspect of the game, putting the ball in the hoop. Is Underwoods "system," or lack there of a major cause of this, that can definitely be argued and debated. Are there not enough players on the floor who are capable of scoring consistently against high major talent? Or is it something else? I don't know the answer to this.

However, my point of posting this in this particular thread finds it's way back to the opening, the fan base, and what I deem unrealistic expectations. We've been stuck at rock bottom for a really long time now. We ALL want out of this. However, to cut ties after 2.5 years (or 3 at the end of this season), with a basketball coach with a very impressive resume that got him this job just seems way too early to know what we've really got. This takes time. Please be patient. If we're unable to give a guy who went 89-14 in his first three seasons in Division 1 more than 3 years at something he really has to build from the ground up, who do we honestly think we can get to replace him?!
 
#42
Beating Wisconsin away doesn't really help anyone's case for firing the coach.
 
Likes: KevinC
#44
Little Rock, Arkansas
While I hope we have reason to delete this thread entirely, there is still a lot of season left that could cause it to become more active.

Luckily, the win last night shuts it down for now. :thumb:
 
Likes: KevinC
#45
Just visited this thread for the first time. Interesting. Many of these guys will be right back here at the first loss. Oh ye of little faith!
 
#46
While I hope we have reason to delete this thread entirely, there is still a lot of season left that could cause it to become more active.

Luckily, the win last night shuts it down for now. :thumb:
There will always be a thread like this due to the fact that ILLINI fans welcome success and expect it from the mens basketball program.

Now we all or most of us may be to short sighted at times (me at times as well) to give everything a chance to play out, but it is because most of us have been around long enough to actually have seen the greatest of times-fall into the worst of times.

The clamoring is due to this and for want of immediate gratification of finally having crawled out of the irrelevence category of college basketball.

BU can speak now to having hopefully turned the corner, we all hope he has, but IF indeed he has and we have success, that will only have us wanting more, and IF that doesn't happen, then here comes the thread and thoughts, baseless conclusion jumping (probably less fun than base jumping), and what iffing the current staff to death.

I for one was thinking BU wasn't going to make this happen, you can see how he has changed his demeanor, his actions, he has made adjustments...maybe just maybe he and this team has finally had that Ah Ah moment and it will click more times than not moving forward? I hope it does, I like him as a coach, and I like where the makeup of this team is headed also. 89' again?
 
Likes: KevinC
#47
There will always be a thread like this due to the fact that ILLINI fans welcome success and expect it from the mens basketball program.

Now we all or most of us may be to short sighted at times (me at times as well) to give everything a chance to play out, but it is because most of us have been around long enough to actually have seen the greatest of times-fall into the worst of times.

The clamoring is due to this and for want of immediate gratification of finally having crawled out of the irrelevence category of college basketball.

BU can speak now to having hopefully turned the corner, we all hope he has, but IF indeed he has and we have success, that will only have us wanting more, and IF that doesn't happen, then here comes the thread and thoughts, baseless conclusion jumping (probably less fun than base jumping), and what iffing the current staff to death.

I for one was thinking BU wasn't going to make this happen, you can see how he has changed his demeanor, his actions, he has made adjustments...maybe just maybe he and this team has finally had that Ah Ah moment and it will click more times than not moving forward? I hope it does, I like him as a coach, and I like where the makeup of this team is headed also. 89' again?
No way BU is fired and don’t think it should be a topic at this point. He has shown smarts in terms of hiring assistants that could recruit and adaptation skills in terms of his defensive adjustments. Anyone that doesn’t think it takes time for a coach to adjust to the BIG is smoking the funny stuff. Forget the record and look at the talent and the progress on the floor. Sure we will have bad games but that is true of all college teams. I am not saying he has proven it yet but it sure as hell is’nt time to start over.
 
#49
There will always be a thread like this due to the fact that ILLINI fans welcome success and expect it from the mens basketball program.

Now we all or most of us may be to short sighted at times (me at times as well) to give everything a chance to play out, but it is because most of us have been around long enough to actually have seen the greatest of times-fall into the worst of times.

The clamoring is due to this and for want of immediate gratification of finally having crawled out of the irrelevence category of college basketball.

BU can speak now to having hopefully turned the corner, we all hope he has, but IF indeed he has and we have success, that will only have us wanting more, and IF that doesn't happen, then here comes the thread and thoughts, baseless conclusion jumping (probably less fun than base jumping), and what iffing the current staff to death.

I for one was thinking BU wasn't going to make this happen, you can see how he has changed his demeanor, his actions, he has made adjustments...maybe just maybe he and this team has finally had that Ah Ah moment and it will click more times than not moving forward? I hope it does, I like him as a coach, and I like where the makeup of this team is headed also. 89' again?
I was always confident that Wood would in fact make it happen. He's a very good coach. I don't think his demeanor has changed, I think the team is executing, thus he doesn't get ticked off as much.
 
#50
Anyone that doesn’t think it takes time for a coach to adjust to the BIG is smoking the funny stuff.
There are a lot of national media folks smoking it than too because it wasn't just this board talking about us being a top 25 team or at least a tourney team. I've been critical or the coaching but I never thought we should fire Underwood early on.

But to date, this team has somewhat underperformed. As to adjustment, there's been plenty of coaches who have adjusted within a year and certainly many of the successful ones with in two years.
 
Likes: STLIlliniMike
Status
Not open for further replies.