Coronavirus Pandemic

I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I have so much to say, but will limit myself to a couple of points...
If we learned tomorrow there’d literally never be a vaccine, we’d all stop caring and go back to pre-COVID routines.
No, we would not. You know better!
When states 'reopened,' did people go back to doing what they were doing before? Some of them did, and then states had to rein things in again because it did not go well. People in all of the many at-risk categories would see their lives change drastically if it was known there would be no vaccine. Health providers would have to dramatically change how they do business to accommodate those at-risk patients. Could these changes be done? Of course, anything can be done, except, you know, getting enough Americans to observe quarantine at once to stop a deadly virus... And "we'd all stop caring"? That's some weapons grade BS right there. People care when they have to stand next to a smelly guy on the bus. People are sure AF going to care when the guy next to them is coughing and wiping beads of sweat from his forehead on a 60 degree day. I'm sure you and all your sexual partners ever were like 'Condom, ha!' because no one cares about all those diseases with no vaccine either.

people need a light at the end of the tunnel to make a sacrifice.
Have a list of 900 health care workers who died of Coronavirus. I'd call that a sacrifice. What was the light at the end of their tunnel?
There are some people out there (maybe many) for whom a "moral appeal" is plenty, and those people are asking us to "put good policies on paper". When you say it's not a matter of those things anymore, what are you saying to those nurses and doctors? I'm afraid that in your 'never a vaccine' scenario, if enough people say 'F-this,' stop caring and go back to pre-COVID routines, most of our nurses are going to say 'F-this' too. Their tunnels are dark enough already.
 
I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I have so much to say, but will limit myself to a couple of points...

No, we would not. You know better!
When states 'reopened,' did people go back to doing what they were doing before? Some of them did, and then states had to rein things in again because it did not go well. People in all of the many at-risk categories would see their lives change drastically if it was known there would be no vaccine. Health providers would have to dramatically change how they do business to accommodate those at-risk patients. Could these changes be done? Of course, anything can be done, except, you know, getting enough Americans to observe quarantine at once to stop a deadly virus... And "we'd all stop caring"? That's some weapons grade BS right there. People care when they have to stand next to a smelly guy on the bus. People are sure AF going to care when the guy next to them is coughing and wiping beads of sweat from his forehead on a 60 degree day. I'm sure you and all your sexual partners ever were like 'Condom, ha!' because no one cares about all those diseases with no vaccine either.


Have a list of 900 health care workers who died of Coronavirus. I'd call that a sacrifice. What was the light at the end of their tunnel?
There are some people out there (maybe many) for whom a "moral appeal" is plenty, and those people are asking us to "put good policies on paper". When you say it's not a matter of those things anymore, what are you saying to those nurses and doctors? I'm afraid that in your 'never a vaccine' scenario, if enough people say 'F-this,' stop caring and go back to pre-COVID routines, most of our nurses are going to say 'F-this' too. Their tunnels are dark enough already.
I mean, this is all emotional appeal (that I agree with!), but it doesn’t change the reality, IMO ... you’re effectively saying people’s attitudes toward what to do about COVID are messed up and selfish. Okay, so what?? My girlfriend of three years who I live with is a COVID nurse, and my dad is a hospital CFO; I’m well aware of the sacrifices healthcare workers have made, and I feel for them. I’m just simply saying it’d be a better investment to throw experts’ efforts behind making “normal life” safer than it would be to yell into a void.

As for your response to my first point ... agree to disagree. People are taking precautions out of a hope that a vaccine will make all of this worth it. If my 80-year old grandma who’s smoked her whole life learned tomorrow that there’d never be a vaccine, she’d just want to live life again with whatever time she had left, and I imagine many “vulnerable” people would feel the same, let alone the rest of the population. My main beef here is this is more complicated than vague, hypothetical-in-nature emotional appeals like “Save Lives” or simply ignoring the virus because we want it to go away, and I don’t have much tolerance left for people who can’t appreciate that.
 
My main beef here is this is more complicated than vague, hypothetical-in-nature emotional appeals like “Save Lives”
I'm sorry that in the constraints of a college football thread where my posts will rightfully be deleted or moved (Dan, i appreciate you letting them last as long as you do!) that i didn't spend the time in my discussion to cover the breadth or depth necessary to show just how complicated i think the pandemic's effects on society are. But if "Save Lives" is now only a vague, hypothetical-in-nature emotional appeal, then i have definitely underestimated just how complicated things will get.
 
I'm sorry that in the constraints of a college football thread where my posts will rightfully be deleted or moved (Dan, i appreciate you letting them last as long as you do!) that i didn't spend the time in my discussion to cover the breadth or depth necessary to show just how complicated i think the pandemic's effects on society are. But if "Save Lives" is now only a vague, hypothetical-in-nature emotional appeal, then i have definitely underestimated just how complicated things will get.
I don't appreciate the tone, sir. My girlfriend has seen the worst of the worst and has told me some awful stories. My dad's hospital lost more money in April than it made in 2019. I won't take seriously anyone who even somewhat insinuates that I have less empathy for the sick and vulnerable in this situation simply because I have a different outlook than they do on what can realistically and effectively be done in our current situation. Additionally, I find the fact that you're talking to me like I gave you some deplorable opinion of mine rather than my prediction of how Americans would behave and what could realistically be done about that to be a sign that you're not having this discussion in good faith.

Good day.
 
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Lotta schools feel it can be done safely. Of course their will be differing points of view, but I can't fault those for speaking up and pushing for a season if they feel it can be done safely.
Define safely. The other day 90% of all Covid tests given in the state of Alabama came back positive. Are they doing it safely? Is that what you want for Champaign? I don't.
 
Got a link for that stat? I wasn't able to find anything in an admitted quick search.

Notre Dame was a (relative) hot spot 3 weeks ago. They went to remote learning, the number of new positive cases has dropped like a rock, and they kick off at 1:30 this Saturday against Duke. ND's QB literally never leaves his apartment or the football complex.

North Carolina grabbed a ton of headlines back in mid August for huge positive numbers. At their peak, they topped 90 new cases a day. This last week, they averaged about 5 new cases a day, a 95% drop. They play Syracuse on Saturday.

Nobody is forcing Illinois to play. If they want to opt out for safety reasons, it's their call. If Ohio State feels it can do it safely and are following the Big 10's medical guidance, why shouldn't they get to make a case to play?
 
Notre Dame was a (relative) hot spot 3 weeks ago. They went to remote learning, the number of new positive cases has dropped like a rock, and they kick off at 1:30 this Saturday against Duke. ND's QB literally never leaves his apartment or the football complex.

North Carolina grabbed a ton of headlines back in mid August for huge positive numbers. At their peak, they topped 90 new cases a day. This last week, they averaged about 5 new cases a day, a 95% drop. They play Syracuse on Saturday.
.... because they went to remote learning. I am not sure how you play remote football.

And it just takes one or two of the players to leave their apartment or the complex to screw it all up. Kudos to the ND QB - but he's likely the exception rather than the rule. In general, this age group has proven they are not disciplined enough to stay away from 'trouble'.

Nobody is forcing Illinois to play. If they want to opt out for safety reasons, it's their call. If Ohio State feels it can do it safely and are following the Big 10's medical guidance, why shouldn't they get to make a case to play?
IMO you're either part of the league or not. If they want to go independent while the league says we'll wait til Winter - more power to them.

If the league decided to play and some teams decided it wasn't safe, then that would be their prerogative. Much like players are kept out due to injury or skip bowl games for safety.
 
South Carolina
Define safely. The other day 90% of all Covid tests given in the state of Alabama came back positive. Are they doing it safely? Is that what you want for Champaign? I don't.
Neat fact. What does that have to do with football?

I think we are overstating the impact of playing football games to overall community health. The University could just shut down a couple frats and it would have a bigger positive impact than cancelling football.
 
Define safely. The other day 90% of all Covid tests given in the state of Alabama came back positive. Are they doing it safely? Is that what you want for Champaign? I don't.
cite your source for this as it seems like false news
 
there is such a ridiculously low medical threat to a college athlete... shutting down college sports makes zero sense
First, you don't know that to be true because to date they have been sheltered. As soon as they start traveling and playing other teams - that could and will likely change. There is a reason the NBA is playing in a bubble.
Second, what makes no sense is worrying about playing a sport today (as much as I enjoy watching them) in a pandemic that is still not under control. I'd feel much more comfortable if we, as a nation were doing the right thing and 95% of us were at the very least, wearing masks. We've proven we do not have the discipline to do something as simple as that, so, no, I have a very low level of confidence this could be pulled off in a safe manner.
 
st petersburg, fl
cite your source for this as it seems like false news
i'm guessing he/she is misreading the chart. or i guess it could be one of those days below where very few tests were done and looks like all are positive. But i'm guessing those are outliers and may even be excluded from the 7 day running avg. by what it looks like below.

Capture.JPG
 
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Second, what makes no sense is worrying about playing a sport today (as much as I enjoy watching them) in a pandemic that is still not under control.
I love football as much as the next guy (used to be a season ticket holder...my kids and their activities take priority now). Let's not kid ourselves that the health and safety of the athletes/staff is the sole reason for the football season to be postponed. I don't care what side of the aisle you are on, there are politics behind this decision. We know much more about CTE then we know about Covid-19, and there are a large number of studies that show that people who play football are a a much greater risk for CTE. How many conferences and universities have decided to shut down there program because of the risk to the athletes?
 
Omaha, Nebraska
I love football as much as the next guy (used to be a season ticket holder...my kids and their activities take priority now). Let's not kid ourselves that the health and safety of the athletes/staff is the sole reason for the football season to be postponed. I don't care what side of the aisle you are on, there are politics behind this decision. We know much more about CTE then we know about Covid-19, and there are a large number of studies that show that people who play football are a a much greater risk for CTE. How many conferences and universities have decided to shut down there program because of the risk to the athletes?
CTE isn't something where there is community spread. A player cannot give an entire room/team/dorm floor/family etc CTE. Well... I mean I guess they COULD, but dishing out the repeated blows to the heads of that number of people seems unlikely.

I love football. I love watching it, I have seen every single team Illinois has trotted out onto the field for the past 21 years. I'm fine with waiting on this.
 
A player cannot give an entire room/team/dorm floor/family etc CTE.
Then why aren't all classes online? That would reduce the contact for all the students and not just the athletes. I'm fine with waiting to watch football as well, but I don't think we should be kidding ourselves that this is all about health and safety!

A large number of students marched/protested a week or so ago. They all have a constitutional right to do so! It looked as though most everyone was wearing masks, but they were not social distancing the entire time. Does the University have a problem with that? I don't want our right to free speech taken away, but I feel like this is double standard.

If someone from that group spread Covid -19 how is it any different?
 
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Omaha, Nebraska
Then why aren't all classes online? That would reduce the contact for all the students and not just the athletes. I'm fine with waiting to watch football as well, but I don't think we should be kidding ourselves that this is all about health and safety!

A large number of students marched/protested a week or so ago. They all have a constitutional right to do so! It looked as though most everyone was wearing masks, but they were not social distancing the entire time. Does the University have a problem with that? I don't want that right taken away, but I feel like this is double standard.

If someone from that group spread Covid -19 how is it any different?
Your thought about all classes being online isn't a bad idea, and I think it's what UNC did a few weeks ago. Seems to have helped out the spread there. Sucks they are playing football this season and we aren't... but as of right now, we don't know what kind of spread (if any) will be the result of playing these games.

Sure, people have the right to march and protest... and I would hope they would use extreme caution when doing so to help prevent spread... just as the University and B1G conference are using extreme caution by saying, "Hey, let's try to get a handle on this pandemic before we decide it's fine to play football."

The marches and protests a people's personal rights. The University can't prevent people from using their personal rights. They can, however, decide that fielding a school athletic team just seems too risky at the moment. It's the school that runs the team... so it's the school's decision. Neither Illinois, nor the B1G can tell your local Pee Wee team to stop playing. They also can't tell people in your neighborhood they can't play a pick up game. That's not their business. What we are talking about, however, is their business.
 
The marches and protests a people's personal rights. The University can't prevent people from using their personal rights. They can, however, decide that fielding a school athletic team just seems too risky at the moment. It's the school that runs the team... so it's the school's decision. Neither Illinois, nor the B1G can tell your local Pee Wee team to stop playing. They also can't tell people in your neighborhood they can't play a pick up game. That's not their business. What we are talking about, however, is their business.
The below is directly from the University Website. I believe the students also received an email or text about this.

Students on campus

INCREASED ENFORCEMENT OF COVID-19 SAFETY GUIDELINES

The university expects all undergraduate students to significantly restrict in-person activities until Wednesday, Sept. 16. Undergraduate students should avoid gathering in small or large groups under any circumstances, and should only leave their residences for essential activities including:

  • Taking twice-weekly COVID-19 tests
  • Attending class
  • Purchasing groceries or food
  • Going to work
  • Engaging in individual outdoor activity
  • Attending religious services
  • Seeking medical attention
Looks like they are trying to do exactly what you are saying they have no control over!
 
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A large number of students marched/protested a week or so ago. They all have a constitutional right to do so! It looked as though most everyone was wearing masks, but they were not social distancing the entire time. Does the University have a problem with that? I don't want our right to free speech taken away, but I feel like this is double standard.
Are you suggesting that these student athletes' right to free speech is equal to their right to play football?

I'm not sure where to start with that. Maybe comparing the First Amendment of the greatest democratic document ever authored to...the rest of the document?
 
st petersburg, fl
Then why aren't all classes online? That would reduce the contact for all the students and not just the athletes. I'm fine with waiting to watch football as well, but I don't think we should be kidding ourselves that this is all about health and safety!

A large number of students marched/protested a week or so ago. They all have a constitutional right to do so! It looked as though most everyone was wearing masks, but they were not social distancing the entire time. Does the University have a problem with that? I don't want our right to free speech taken away, but I feel like this is double standard.

If someone from that group spread Covid -19 how is it any different?
I'm not sure if you've been reading the news or not, but last i checked, a lot of people have been promoting all classes being online.

Also, the comparison to protests is apples/oranges. The university is not asking people to protest. It's not a university sanctioned event. while I agree with the notion that people should be wearing masks and be socially distant (not to mention peaceful), if COVID spreads due to those protests, the university is not liable. (Let alone the notion that an organized, peaceful protests has a different, and arguably more noble, purpose/goal than playing a football game does). So, from the university's perspective, it is very different. you can argue that this is beyond being concerned about health/safety and more about liability, but, at the end of the day, the University can only control what it has control over, whether or not we play football is one thing it has control over.

Not to digress, but I find that argument that this is beyond health/safety a bit amusing. I'd argue that the initial decision to not play was about the closest thing to health/safety that I've seen the Big Ten make in a long time. If we were playing football right now, the argument would be being made that this is all about $$$$. All the sudden, we're not playing football, so it's not about $$$ anymore but politics. now we're talking about resuming earlier, when the only thing that has changed since the initial decision was made was more cases being diagnosed in universities and not much more information about myocarditis makes me think all is right with the football world again ($$$, specifically coaches, AD's).
 
Omaha, Nebraska
The below is directly from the University Website. I believe the students also received an email or text about this.

Students on campus

INCREASED ENFORCEMENT OF COVID-19 SAFETY GUIDELINES

The university expects all undergraduate students to significantly restrict in-person activities until Wednesday, Sept. 16. Undergraduate students should avoid gathering in small or large groups under any circumstances, and should only leave their residences for essential activities including:

  • Taking twice-weekly COVID-19 tests
  • Attending class
  • Purchasing groceries or food
  • Going to work
  • Engaging in individual outdoor activity
  • Attending religious services
  • Seeking medical attention
Looks like they are trying to do exactly what you are saying they have no control over!
I think it's in the wording here... they "EXPECT" the students to do all of these things. Expecting, and requiring/forcing are different.
 
Likes: KevinC
I think it's in the wording here... they "EXPECT" the students to do all of these things. Expecting, and requiring/forcing are different.
U. of Illinois Sanctions 100+ Students for Breaking Coronavirus Rules

Over 100 students were disciplined and 2 were suspended this week after they were found to have violated mitigation policies. The university claims that they have recorded 1,000 positive coronavirus tests since students returned to campus

In a statement, University of Illinois Chancellor Robert Jones said that the behavior of a small number of students has forced the university to consider shutting down the campus.

“The irresponsible and, I might add, dangerous actions of a small number of our students has created the very real possibility of ending an in-person semester for all of us here at Illinois,” Jones said. “We believe taking swift action to identify and remove students who refuse to follow our safety guideline is the right decision,” Jones added.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020...-100-students-for-breaking-coronavirus-rules/
 
Likes: KevinC
Omaha, Nebraska
U. of Illinois Sanctions 100+ Students for Breaking Coronavirus Rules

Over 100 students were disciplined and 2 were suspended this week after they were found to have violated mitigation policies. The university claims that they have recorded 1,000 positive coronavirus tests since students returned to campus

In a statement, University of Illinois Chancellor Robert Jones said that the behavior of a small number of students has forced the university to consider shutting down the campus.

“The irresponsible and, I might add, dangerous actions of a small number of our students has created the very real possibility of ending an in-person semester for all of us here at Illinois,” Jones said. “We believe taking swift action to identify and remove students who refuse to follow our safety guideline is the right decision,” Jones added.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020...-100-students-for-breaking-coronavirus-rules/
Yes, I have been watching this story. I guess the University feels that breaking their guidelines warrants the disciplinary actions they took here. Will see how it plays out.

I understand where you are coming from IlliniBrave. I do. It's a tricky situation for sure, and one that I don't think any of us are happy to be in.