Eastern Michigan 34, Illinois 31 POSTGAME

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This is the thing that really turned it up to 11 for me yesterday - Herm going into East Lansing, holding Sparty to single digits and coming out with a win. Do you know how far we are from that?

I don’t profess (or frankly, care) to know a ton about how ASU is running their program, but presumably they aren’t doing brazenly irresponsible things like “not hiring a DC” or “giving his son a really important job that he’s not qualified for.”

I’m laying a good chunk of this on Whitman, too - when Bill Cubit did this, it was (rightfully) a part of the case for his dismissal. But he’s now stood by as his guy has done the same thing.
I’m guessing this might get brought up when Lovie gets the axe. Maybe not outright “He hired his son, who we now know is extremely unqualified, thus we can see it was a nepotism hire” but instead “He made high risk hires that were found to be in over their heads and it cost him his job.”

I’d lump our new OL coach, LB coach, and DB coach all into that category.

Oh wait...who struggled again yesterday? 🤔
 
Likes: Subortus
This is the thing that really turned it up to 11 for me yesterday - Herm going into East Lansing, holding Sparty to single digits and coming out with a win. Do you know how far we are from that?

I don’t profess (or frankly, care) to know a ton about how ASU is running their program, but presumably they aren’t doing brazenly irresponsible things like “not hiring a DC” or “giving his son a really important job that he’s not qualified for.”

I’m laying a good chunk of this on Whitman, too - when Bill Cubit did this, it was (rightfully) a part of the case for his dismissal. But he’s now stood by as his guy has done the same thing.
Matt, I'm an Illini alum and two of my kids are recent ASU grads, so I've had an opportunity to "compare and contrast" the progrsams.

The bottom line here is that Herm is a much better CFB coach; he knows what's necessary to rebuild a program (RECRUITING and building MOMENTUM early) and assembling a staff that could execute that program. Lovie didn't do his homework well enough to understand that this is just about the only path to success in rebuilding, and hired perhaps the poorest recruiting staff in P5 and assistants who had little or no recruiting contacts, skills and knowledge and gutted the returning roster to ensure that all "momentum" would be downward.

I'm not aware of any other P5 coach to make these fundamental mistakes. This approach should've been part of the discussions with JW before the hire, but if it was JW should've understood that his plan was a loser and the hire shouldn't have happened. Of course Whitman was overwhelmingly unqualified to lead building quality P5 FB and BB programs. He'd never been part of an administration team that did it, so how would he know how to accomplish this incredibly tough task requiring skill and experience?

The sad fact is that he wasn't hired to provide quality programs for the fans, he was hired to raise money for ridiculously expensive capital projects that enrich the "connected" contractors, unions and other campaign contributors in the state. You've got to give him....and Guenther, an A+ in that area.

The only hope here is for "fatcat" contributors to refuse to donate until a plan that has a reasonable chance of success is implemented and the right person to execute it is hired. I really don't know why the fatcats haven't demanded that yet in return for their cash. Anybody know why?

It's clear that Whitman and BOT couldn't care less about the fans, alumni and the horrible branding the University image by these failures. Those funding the excessive building projects are the only ones with the power to shift their paradigms and make them accountable.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that....
 
it's very possible the program will be as bad or worse in another 5 years as it most certainly is right now.
It's actually exceedingly likely it will be at least somewhat better. That's how bad we've been.

And Gil Byrd is more than qualified to coach that position.
Is he? The guy who has never coached in college before, basically never coached except under Lovie before, didn't land another job when Lovie got fired by the Bears, didn't land another job when Lovie got fired by the Bucs, and got canned after one season in Buffalo in his first real job outside Lovieville?

Lovie was at Ohio State in 1995, Ligashesky was at Pitt in 2003. More recently than that, the ONLY person on our ten-man staff who has been a full assistant coach at a Power Five school other than Illinois is Rod Smith. One out of ten. It is a shockingly, unacceptably under-qualified coaching staff.

Do you know how far we are from that?
I know what you're saying, but not that far! Kansas blew out Boston College on the road on Friday. BC is no MSU, but we're no Kansas either.

I think as we travel toward what now seems like an inevitable conclusion here, part of what we need to do is push back against the idea that a new coach means starting by flamethrowing the program down to the ashes for two-plus years, or that that's some sort of good, positive thing to do. We've got a 2020 team with a bunch of talent and a bunch of seniors and an easy schedule, let's get them the benefit of some real instruction.

This approach should've been part of the discussions with JW before the hire, but if it was JW should've understood that his plan was a loser and the hire shouldn't have happened.
We know the background on the Lovie hire, Whitman discussed the idea with Ron Turner at the Rose Bowl, Turner reached out to Lovie, there was mutual interest, and then Whitman traveled down to Tampa and met with Lovie at his house, and in those discussions and brainstorming sessions there was formed a bond and an understanding and a plan they both felt would lead to great success at Illinois.

You look back on it, and in those sessions in Tampa when the plan got built were two very confident, self-certain guys, who had not been on the ground with their hands in the dough of a major college football program, in *any* capacity, since 2000 and 1995, respectively. They were absolutely sure they knew what they were doing, but they didn't, and they hatched a really deeply flawed plan.

Lovie hasn't figured things out since then. Has Whitman? That's the question upon which everything rests.
 
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Is he? The guy who has never coached in college before, basically never coached except under Lovie before, didn't land another job when Lovie got fired by the Bears, didn't land another job when Lovie got hired by the Bucs, and got canned after one season in Buffalo in his first real job outside Lovieville?

Lovie was at Ohio State in 1995, Ligashesky was at Pitt in 2003. More recently than that, the ONLY person on our ten-man staff who has been a full assistant coach at a Power Five school other than Illinois is Rod Smith. One out of ten. It is a shockingly, unacceptably under-qualified coaching staff.
Yes he is. Most of that is purely fluff for perception purposes which I can do for anyone on this or any other staff. Nebraska runs out a DC with no non-Scott Frost resume (His first two college jobs were low level assistant gigs on the offensive side of the ball) and I assure you, he’s more than qualified to call the defensive sets there. Did a pretty good job of it yesterday too, despiteGill Byrd is absolutely qualified to coach that position but this isn’t about Gill Byrd, it’s about your comment towards Miles Smith and your assessment of the LB play. Miles Smith is under qualified if not completely unqualified to coach that position and his hire looks terrible as a result of that but you have to long jump like Carl Lewis to get from “Miles Smith is not qualified to coach LBs” to “Our LBs cost us the game and it’s all Miles Smith’s fault”. The former is fine, the latter is simply inaccurate. On the list of issues we have, coverage or otherwise, our LB play wouldn’t even grace my top 10. Distracting from real issues doesn’t do anything for us.
 
I’m guessing this might get brought up when Lovie gets the axe. Maybe not outright “He hired his son, who we now know is extremely unqualified, thus we can see it was a nepotism hire” but instead “He made high risk hires that were found to be in over their heads and it cost him his job.”

I’d lump our new OL coach, LB coach, and DB coach all into that category.

Oh wait...who struggled again yesterday? 🤔
Hoppy, you're spot on. Looking at Lovie's staff, there's just too many that you can't have and be successful at this level. There are a few that are decent. Rod Smith isn't bad, but Alabama and Clemson aren't exactly breaking down the door to get him. He's above P5 average, but he isn't a great recruiter and he's not a wonder worker as OC.

Bellamy is still an open question. RB play has been about as well coached as it can be, but he has yet to bring in that "feature back" he needs to recruit to keep a top running game, and his Chicago metro recruiting isn't very impressive so far.

Hayes-Stoker for WRs has been one of our best recruiters and now that he has some talent on the field, I think he's shown that he can coach 'em up with his rapid development of the transfers. Definitely a keeper.

Corey Patterson has certainly been a pleasant surprise as both a position coach and recruiter. We'd have ridiculously poor recruiting without him and Hayes-Stoker. I've been VERY impressed with his development of Barker at TE. I don't know if we had better TE development and performance in over a decade. Add in Ford next year, and that may be our top position.

McClain for the OL is starting to look like a real bust. He got shut out on ALL the best Illinois OL recruits and took .much lower rated OL from out of state. If he was a great OL coach, it may have been worth it to hire him, but from what we've seen so far what was supposed to be our top unit has been a disaster since he took over. Unless he OL play improves DRAMATICALLY this year, I don't see how we can invite him back for next year if we're serious about winning.

Ligashefsky seems to be a pretty good ST coach when he has some talent, but he's completely dead weight as a recruiter. You may be able to afford one of those on your staff, but we have FIVE!

Clark is performing like a coach who's never been a P5 position coach before, and it shows. Other than Betiku, his line with above average talent is playing WAY below potential, and he doesn't seem to know what to do about it. Having a top DL coach is essential for rebuilding programs, someone who's done it before. Lovie just doesn't get it. His recruiting is still suspect. He lost ESL DT Billingsly, the DT from North Chicago, and about four top DEs from Illinois that would upgrade our talent. He's only got a "project" 260# DT from Florida. If he gets DT Denver from Aurora, DE Joe Moore from Missouri and perhaps that hyphenated guy from Texas, he can redeem himself in recruiting, but unless he gets a LOT more from Carney, Milan, Oladipo, Avery, Woods, Ayo, Gay and Pate, we may need to upgrade there...

I really don't see how we can keep Byrd, our safeties and Passing game defense coordinator. Safety play is awful and confused, technique is bad and there's far too much "Bambi in the headlights" look from them. Even mediocre passing teams are ripping us apart. His recruiting is even worse. He brought in NO ONE last year, and he isn't in on any top safeties this year either. He's had two years now, and if he can't deliver on the recruiting trail or on the field this year, clearly it's time for a change.

Keynodo Hudson? Cornerback play hasn't impressed, and he isn't close to any quality CBs for 2020. Maybe he gets another year, but right now it looks like a failed hire.

Miles Smith? Need I say anything about this nepotism hire?

Bottom line here is that Lovie just isn't capable of being a successful college coach. His plan for rebuilding was a joke in the coaching community, as well as his staff hiring. His lack of discipline and the mental mistakes by his team clearly shows he can't deal with those things he didn't need to stress in the pros, but is essential in CFB.

Lovie and CFB is just a poor match, as soon as both he and JW figure that out, the better chance of revival becomes.
 
My Observations and sad rant: Arrived at 10:30 and traffic was a breeze and the parking lot had tons of great spots left, knew right then the crowd would be sparse. Perfect day for a football game and it seemed no one really cared. Did not see many tailgaters as I walked up. Five of us walked in without delay and found seats on the 50 yard line on the west side with an empty row in front of us and another behind us. Block I was an embarrassment with the top 1/3 empty on the left side and 1/2 empty on right. The sparse crowd is mostly 50+ years old along with some families with little kids. The stadium plays music no one knows except maybe the players and 200 students in the student section. (At Wisconsin the entire crowd will stand and loudly sing as they regularly play classic tunes like Brown Eyed Girl). The "Stand up and Shout" audio spots and the Nick Offerman videos are getting old. I think the in-game production leadership is really dropping the ball. The Illini dance team dances to tunes no one knows and they get hardly a smattering of applause. The Cheerleaders are good, and the Marching Illini are great, but how hard it must be for them to do what they do for a program like this. Half the crowd left after the halftime show. The scoreboard, ribbon led signage, fireworks, sound system, new restrooms and concessions, etc. are very nice. All said, I would care a lick about any of these details if we could win a football game. I've attended every home game I have been able to attend since 1977. I remember when the 80's belonged to the Illini. I remember the 84 team. I remember standing room only. When I was a student the entire campus shut down as we all went to the games. Sadly, the student's don't care, even though student tickets are the same price they were 30 years ago. I used to have a group of 30 people who got season tickets together, now its just 8 of us. We used to plan all week for our tailgates, now no one wants to. Believe it or not, it used to be that if you had an extra ticket you could be someone's hero, now I have to call 10 friends before someone says yes. Today two of our group left after halftime and another two at the start of the 4th quarter. They made no effort to make their schedule work around the game. It used to be that no one planned anything in the C-U area on a football Saturday. I sat in the sparse crowd by myself til the end. The drive home was a walk in the park. Hardly any traffic. Students and the local community have just stopped caring about Illinois football. My 18 year old son is now a freshman at Illinois and he can't even remember a winning football team. His best memory was when he was 6 years old and got to spend a week with his grandparents while my wife and I went to our last Rose Bowl game. He now has no interest in attending the games with me. He prefers studying or working on Saturdays instead. My family has been season ticket holders since the early 80's, myself since 1986. I don't want to add up how much money and time I have investing in Illinois football. Why is our football team so bad? Why, Why, Why??? Will any of my friends or family even want to go to the Nebraska game next week? I can't even look forward to a night game! ugh. I need some kleenex. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, sniff sniff.
Sadly this post is 100% true. My family has been going to games since the early 90s and have had season tickets since 2006. I was only 12 at the time but vividly remember the 2007 Michigan game. The atmosphere was electric. The stadium was packed body to body. Everyone was standing the whole game. If I stand now, I get dirty looks or whispers from people because they can’t see. There are many who have zero interest in the game. I was yelling at the game yesterday (no swearing- just mad) and a lady turned and said I was being obnoxious. The passion is completely gone.

The student section is a utter and complete embarrassment. We got to campus around 10:00 and the campus was a ghost town. Bars weren’t even open. No students walking around. Tailgating is essentially nonexistent compared to other big ten teams. Your comment regarding the music is spot on. The audio and song choices are embarrassing. Why are they catering to the 200 students that showed up? Play songs that the majority of the 25k fans that showed up can actually sing along to. The chicago tribune wrote a great article yesterday regarding the drop in fans. Illinois went from averaging 60k fans in 2011 to 34k in 2017 (and that’s being generous).

Lovie doesn’t seem to have the passion to ignite his players. There doesn’t seem to be any repercussions for players who commit stupid penalties. He’s the coach that loses a close game and isn’t mad. Instead it’s a “we did some positive things and that’s a bright side”. I don’t think he’s the right coach for the program but it’s not going to help recruiting to fire Lovie and hire another coach either. It shows the program has no stability. It can’t help recruiting to have a guy like Lovie with his beard going into these players houses. It’s very embarrassing. Sadly the program is so far down in a hole that it’s going to take awhile to come out. It’s going to take many winning years to get 50k fans filling the stadium again. It’s very sad to see how far the program has tanked in the last 10-12 years.
 
Now that emotions are settling I have one big complaint--

We are a group of individuals; not a team. EMU is a team.

I follow many of the players on social media. Almost immediately after the game they were re-posting videos of their INDIVIDUAL performances/successes from the game, almost as if they were proud of the effort.

As a fan, I was angry after the game yesterday. If I were a player, I'd be embarrassed and angry. I wouldn't want to go posting videos of my team losing to an inferiorly talented team.

Hats off to EMU. They played hard and wanted it. They deserved to win.
 
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My Observations and sad rant: Arrived at 10:30 and traffic was a breeze and the parking lot had tons of great spots left, knew right then the crowd would be sparse. Perfect day for a football game and it seemed no one really cared. Did not see many tailgaters as I walked up. Five of us walked in without delay and found seats on the 50 yard line on the west side with an empty row in front of us and another behind us. Block I was an embarrassment with the top 1/3 empty on the left side and 1/2 empty on right. The sparse crowd is mostly 50+ years old along with some families with little kids. The stadium plays music no one knows except maybe the players and 200 students in the student section. (At Wisconsin the entire crowd will stand and loudly sing as they regularly play classic tunes like Brown Eyed Girl). The "Stand up and Shout" audio spots and the Nick Offerman videos are getting old. I think the in-game production leadership is really dropping the ball. The Illini dance team dances to tunes no one knows and they get hardly a smattering of applause. The Cheerleaders are good, and the Marching Illini are great, but how hard it must be for them to do what they do for a program like this. Half the crowd left after the halftime show. The scoreboard, ribbon led signage, fireworks, sound system, new restrooms and concessions, etc. are very nice. All said, I would care a lick about any of these details if we could win a football game. I've attended every home game I have been able to attend since 1977. I remember when the 80's belonged to the Illini. I remember the 84 team. I remember standing room only. When I was a student the entire campus shut down as we all went to the games. Sadly, the student's don't care, even though student tickets are the same price they were 30 years ago. I used to have a group of 30 people who got season tickets together, now its just 8 of us. We used to plan all week for our tailgates, now no one wants to. Believe it or not, it used to be that if you had an extra ticket you could be someone's hero, now I have to call 10 friends before someone says yes. Today two of our group left after halftime and another two at the start of the 4th quarter. They made no effort to make their schedule work around the game. It used to be that no one planned anything in the C-U area on a football Saturday. I sat in the sparse crowd by myself til the end. The drive home was a walk in the park. Hardly any traffic. Students and the local community have just stopped caring about Illinois football. My 18 year old son is now a freshman at Illinois and he can't even remember a winning football team. His best memory was when he was 6 years old and got to spend a week with his grandparents while my wife and I went to our last Rose Bowl game. He now has no interest in attending the games with me. He prefers studying or working on Saturdays instead. My family has been season ticket holders since the early 80's, myself since 1986. I don't want to add up how much money and time I have investing in Illinois football. Why is our football team so bad? Why, Why, Why??? Will any of my friends or family even want to go to the Nebraska game next week? I can't even look forward to a night game! ugh. I need some kleenex. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, sniff sniff.

I’m one of the 1000’s that echo this same experience as spot on. Even all the way down to the analysis on the dance team. I have 2 daughters that are both national dance champions that I have been grooming for years to follow my footsteps and get to enjoy what I experienced in the 80’s in Champaign. They both though that the dance team was beyond lame with horrible choreography.
I take them down to Green St every year and every year it gets more lame.
And those that notice that this team gets no coaching....also spot on.
 
California
I don't understand how Illinois could be bad ever since the slush fund (1967) with small times of respectability about once every twenty years.

At least Illinois is an equal opportunity citadel of coaching failure (former NFL HC (Lovie), former power 5 HC (White, Zook), former MAC HC (Beckman), former Ivy HC (Blackman), former power 5 assistant (Moelle, Tepper), former NFL assistant (Turner, Valek)).

Consider this - only one Illinois coach in 50+ years left on his own - Mackovic.

Bottom line - everything has been tried. Nothing has worked long term. Actually, mostly nothing has worked short-term either.
 
Sadly this post is 100% true. My family has been going to games since the early 90s and have had season tickets since 2006. I was only 12 at the time but vividly remember the 2007 Michigan game. The atmosphere was electric. The stadium was packed body to body. Everyone was standing the whole game. If I stand now, I get dirty looks or whispers from people because they can’t see. There are many who have zero interest in the game. I was yelling at the game yesterday (no swearing- just mad) and a lady turned and said I was being obnoxious. The passion is completely gone.

The student section is a utter and complete embarrassment. We got to campus around 10:00 and the campus was a ghost town. Bars weren’t even open. No students walking around. Tailgating is essentially nonexistent compared to other big ten teams. Your comment regarding the music is spot on. The audio and song choices are embarrassing. Why are they catering to the 200 students that showed up? Play songs that the majority of the 25k fans that showed up can actually sing along to. The chicago tribune wrote a great article yesterday regarding the drop in fans. Illinois went from averaging 60k fans in 2011 to 34k in 2017 (and that’s being generous).

Lovie doesn’t seem to have the passion to ignite his players. There doesn’t seem to be any repercussions for players who commit stupid penalties. He’s the coach that loses a close game and isn’t mad. Instead it’s a “we did some positive things and that’s a bright side”. I don’t think he’s the right coach for the program but it’s not going to help recruiting to fire Lovie and hire another coach either. It shows the program has no stability. It can’t help recruiting to have a guy like Lovie with his beard going into these players houses. It’s very embarrassing. Sadly the program is so far down in a hole that it’s going to take awhile to come out. It’s going to take many winning years to get 50k fans filling the stadium again. It’s very sad to see how far the program has tanked in the last 10-12 years.
I got stares and told to "sit down I can't see" at games in the 1980's heyday. Maybe not at the "huge" games but at almost all others. Almost got kicked out one game where we had season tickets for 20 plus years because someone complained. It's a University of East Central Illinois thing and I came from downstate so it's not like I have bias. Too many C-U lifers in the AD who see this as a paycheck and that's about it. Would be good to hire some outside blood to work on the game day experience. First world problems but relatively easy to fix compared to coaching hires. Grange Grove and selling beer at games is a start I suppose.
 
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I got stares and told to "sit down I can't see" at games in the 1980's heyday. Maybe not at the "huge" games but at almost all others. Almost got kicked out one game where we had season tickets for 20 plus years because someone complained. It's a University of East Central Illinois thing and I came from downstate so it's not like I have bias. Too many C-U lifers in the AD who see this as a paycheck and that's about it. Would be good to hire some outside blood to work on the game day experience. First world problems but relatively easy to fix compared to coaching hires. Grange Grove and selling beer at games is a start I suppose.
I saw fans told to sit down at the pivotal Tennessee Arkansas game in Knoxville. The year Tennessee won the national title! Happens everywhere.
 
Likes: John Freim
Hoppy, you're spot on. Looking at Lovie's staff, there's just too many that you can't have and be successful at this level. There are a few that are decent. Rod Smith isn't bad, but Alabama and Clemson aren't exactly breaking down the door to get him. He's above P5 average, but he isn't a great recruiter and he's not a wonder worker as OC.

Bellamy is still an open question. RB play has been about as well coached as it can be, but he has yet to bring in that "feature back" he needs to recruit to keep a top running game, and his Chicago metro recruiting isn't very impressive so far.

Hayes-Stoker for WRs has been one of our best recruiters and now that he has some talent on the field, I think he's shown that he can coach 'em up with his rapid development of the transfers. Definitely a keeper.

Corey Patterson has certainly been a pleasant surprise as both a position coach and recruiter. We'd have ridiculously poor recruiting without him and Hayes-Stoker. I've been VERY impressed with his development of Barker at TE. I don't know if we had better TE development and performance in over a decade. Add in Ford next year, and that may be our top position.

McClain for the OL is starting to look like a real bust. He got shut out on ALL the best Illinois OL recruits and took .much lower rated OL from out of state. If he was a great OL coach, it may have been worth it to hire him, but from what we've seen so far what was supposed to be our top unit has been a disaster since he took over. Unless he OL play improves DRAMATICALLY this year, I don't see how we can invite him back for next year if we're serious about winning.

Ligashefsky seems to be a pretty good ST coach when he has some talent, but he's completely dead weight as a recruiter. You may be able to afford one of those on your staff, but we have FIVE!

Clark is performing like a coach who's never been a P5 position coach before, and it shows. Other than Betiku, his line with above average talent is playing WAY below potential, and he doesn't seem to know what to do about it. Having a top DL coach is essential for rebuilding programs, someone who's done it before. Lovie just doesn't get it. His recruiting is still suspect. He lost ESL DT Billingsly, the DT from North Chicago, and about four top DEs from Illinois that would upgrade our talent. He's only got a "project" 260# DT from Florida. If he gets DT Denver from Aurora, DE Joe Moore from Missouri and perhaps that hyphenated guy from Texas, he can redeem himself in recruiting, but unless he gets a LOT more from Carney, Milan, Oladipo, Avery, Woods, Ayo, Gay and Pate, we may need to upgrade there...

I really don't see how we can keep Byrd, our safeties and Passing game defense coordinator. Safety play is awful and confused, technique is bad and there's far too much "Bambi in the headlights" look from them. Even mediocre passing teams are ripping us apart. His recruiting is even worse. He brought in NO ONE last year, and he isn't in on any top safeties this year either. He's had two years now, and if he can't deliver on the recruiting trail or on the field this year, clearly it's time for a change.

Keynodo Hudson? Cornerback play hasn't impressed, and he isn't close to any quality CBs for 2020. Maybe he gets another year, but right now it looks like a failed hire.

Miles Smith? Need I say anything about this nepotism hire?

Bottom line here is that Lovie just isn't capable of being a successful college coach. His plan for rebuilding was a joke in the coaching community, as well as his staff hiring. His lack of discipline and the mental mistakes by his team clearly shows he can't deal with those things he didn't need to stress in the pros, but is essential in CFB.

Lovie and CFB is just a poor match, as soon as both he and JW figure that out, the better chance of revival becomes.
So blow it up when we are in year 3-4, you pick, of a plan , contacts with areas of interest.......Smith, wouldn't trade him, needs a mobile QB, has one coming......Bellamy...RBs seem fine to me. Hayes Stoker a plus....Patterson too. McClain, OL is a plus but they're learning to pass block more this year, growing there. Lig....don't mess with STeams we are solid there. Clark...who do you think got Beebe, lost our best to injury, someone else needs to step up.....Byrd... injuries, little depth, penalties, help next year via transfer, need it now. Let's see this year and next before thinking of blowing this up.
 
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I don't understand how Illinois could be bad ever since the slush fund (1967) with small times of respectability about once every twenty years.

At least Illinois is an equal opportunity citadel of coaching failure (former NFL HC (Lovie), former power 5 HC (White, Zook), former MAC HC (Beckman), former Ivy HC (Blackman), former power 5 assistant (Moelle, Tepper), former NFL assistant (Turner, Valek)).

Consider this - only one Illinois coach in 50+ years left on his own - Mackovic.

Bottom line - everything has been tried. Nothing has worked long term. Actually, mostly nothing has worked short-term either.
The vast majority of this is due to being cheap for decades, and allowing AD’s to make multiple, sometimes several, poor HC hires.

The cheap problem ended when Whitman was given resources to hire big. Unfortunately, it appears that the timing, contract specs, and selection of a candidate were all bungled. I’m not surprised, because realistically he had no experience at a P5 school as the man in charge making those decisions. It was a reach, followed by another reach, and had landed us in a really undesirable spot. We swung for the fences and whiffed.
 
I don't understand how Illinois could be bad ever since the slush fund (1967) with small times of respectability about once every twenty years.

At least Illinois is an equal opportunity citadel of coaching failure (former NFL HC (Lovie), former power 5 HC (White, Zook), former MAC HC (Beckman), former Ivy HC (Blackman), former power 5 assistant (Moelle, Tepper), former NFL assistant (Turner, Valek)).

Consider this - only one Illinois coach in 50+ years left on his own - Mackovic.

Bottom line - everything has been tried. Nothing has worked long term. Actually, mostly nothing has worked short-term either.
I was at UI from 65-68 and I can appreciate what you are saying. During that period it was a real event to go to UI football. From a very strong program under Pete Elliott to a disaster under Jim Valek. The Big 10 really did a number on UI. They could see UI was poised to become a powerhouse football program and they crippled it before it could achieve it potential. The basketball team recovered, however football never has. Don't blame Jim Valek, he never had a chance.
 
I suggested 2 or 3 years back that J Leman should be coach, and I was roasted on here. Is there anyone out there that thinks an actual alum would have 1. created a better atmosphere, 2. would have understood that we needed to recruit better, and 3. would have simply cared more? Is there anything wrong with having an alum coach the team? We can't just keep hiring people that can't do all 3 of these things. It doesn't have to be J Leman, but we need someone with passion. Someone that would have gotten in the face of the kid that caused that 15 yard late hit out of bounds yesterday. Someone that can teach individual players. Someone that jumps up and down on the sideline. I want to see some chest bumps and fist bumps with the coach. We are only going though the motions, and aren't going to improve until we find someone that has fire in his belly, maybe has a crazy side, and knows how to recruit and call a game. I've seen speed and passion win over talent many times in many sports. Unfortunately on Saturday EMU's passion beat our talent. We are a better team than they are. Tired of this garbage.
 
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I don't understand how Illinois could be bad ever since the slush fund (1967)
From a very strong program under Pete Elliott to a disaster under Jim Valek. The Big 10 really did a number on UI. They could see UI was poised to become a powerhouse football program and they crippled it before it could achieve it potential.
The biggest lie ever told about Illinois Athletics. Ron Guenther's personal self-serving mythology both about his own playing days, and the excuse for why he so comprehensively failed as an AD, transmitted unchallenged for decades via his local media toadies.

Here are the facts:

Illinois Big Ten Football Record 1938-1966 (29 seasons pre-Slush Fund): 81-97-8
Illinois Big Ten Football Record 1967-1995 (29 seasons post-Slush Fund): 110-113-9

In 1995 we miss a bowl with a wildly talented team, after the whole Greg Landry/Chris Redman affair, but Guenther sticks by his guy, more broadly cementing his commitment to his gauzy notions of how an athletic department ought to be run, free from accountability, media scrutiny, grubby students, etc. A stale private club for the loyal in-crowd of soggy blue haired donor lackeys.

Illinois Big Ten Football Record 1996-2018 (now 23 seasons later): 49-138
 
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I suggested 2 or 3 years back that J Leman should be coach, and I was roasted on here. Is there anyone out there that thinks an actual alum would have 1. created a better atmosphere, 2. would have understood that we needed to recruit better, and 3. would have simply cared more? Is there anything wrong with having an alum coach the team?
Good point. Using "being an alum" as the #1 criteria for hiring ADs has worked out wonderfully. Why shouldn't we use the same method for coaches as well!

I will never understand Illinois fans and the fact that they value "Hiring unqualified alums" over winning.
 
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I watched the Iowa/Iowa State game last night. Was there mistakes, yes but, the intensity for the game was there. I don't see that from Lovie's teams. :cry:
 
Likes: DaChief4ever
Hoppy, you're spot on. Looking at Lovie's staff, there's just too many that you can't have and be successful at this level. There are a few that are decent. Rod Smith isn't bad, but Alabama and Clemson aren't exactly breaking down the door to get him. He's above P5 average, but he isn't a great recruiter and he's not a wonder worker as OC.

Bellamy is still an open question. RB play has been about as well coached as it can be, but he has yet to bring in that "feature back" he needs to recruit to keep a top running game, and his Chicago metro recruiting isn't very impressive so far.

Hayes-Stoker for WRs has been one of our best recruiters and now that he has some talent on the field, I think he's shown that he can coach 'em up with his rapid development of the transfers. Definitely a keeper.

Corey Patterson has certainly been a pleasant surprise as both a position coach and recruiter. We'd have ridiculously poor recruiting without him and Hayes-Stoker. I've been VERY impressed with his development of Barker at TE. I don't know if we had better TE development and performance in over a decade. Add in Ford next year, and that may be our top position.

McClain for the OL is starting to look like a real bust. He got shut out on ALL the best Illinois OL recruits and took .much lower rated OL from out of state. If he was a great OL coach, it may have been worth it to hire him, but from what we've seen so far what was supposed to be our top unit has been a disaster since he took over. Unless he OL play improves DRAMATICALLY this year, I don't see how we can invite him back for next year if we're serious about winning.

Ligashefsky seems to be a pretty good ST coach when he has some talent, but he's completely dead weight as a recruiter. You may be able to afford one of those on your staff, but we have FIVE!

Clark is performing like a coach who's never been a P5 position coach before, and it shows. Other than Betiku, his line with above average talent is playing WAY below potential, and he doesn't seem to know what to do about it. Having a top DL coach is essential for rebuilding programs, someone who's done it before. Lovie just doesn't get it. His recruiting is still suspect. He lost ESL DT Billingsly, the DT from North Chicago, and about four top DEs from Illinois that would upgrade our talent. He's only got a "project" 260# DT from Florida. If he gets DT Denver from Aurora, DE Joe Moore from Missouri and perhaps that hyphenated guy from Texas, he can redeem himself in recruiting, but unless he gets a LOT more from Carney, Milan, Oladipo, Avery, Woods, Ayo, Gay and Pate, we may need to upgrade there...

I really don't see how we can keep Byrd, our safeties and Passing game defense coordinator. Safety play is awful and confused, technique is bad and there's far too much "Bambi in the headlights" look from them. Even mediocre passing teams are ripping us apart. His recruiting is even worse. He brought in NO ONE last year, and he isn't in on any top safeties this year either. He's had two years now, and if he can't deliver on the recruiting trail or on the field this year, clearly it's time for a change.

Keynodo Hudson? Cornerback play hasn't impressed, and he isn't close to any quality CBs for 2020. Maybe he gets another year, but right now it looks like a failed hire.

Miles Smith? Need I say anything about this nepotism hire?

Bottom line here is that Lovie just isn't capable of being a successful college coach. His plan for rebuilding was a joke in the coaching community, as well as his staff hiring. His lack of discipline and the mental mistakes by his team clearly shows he can't deal with those things he didn't need to stress in the pros, but is essential in CFB.

Lovie and CFB is just a poor match, as soon as both he and JW figure that out, the better chance of revival becomes.
Glad we’re driving into things a lot deeper here but all due respect, your recruiting commentary is WAY off.
 
We coulda got Leach.....take a look at his record......that guy flat out wins and improves a program... doesnt put up with BS in a new conference. You KNOW Leach is in charge, a leader, as for Lovey.....oh well.
Leach...YES....enthusiasm!!! Lovie reaction on losing to EMU "Well we saw good and bad, but we'll clean it up" Lovie's reaction on Beating Michigan (dream).."Well we saw good and bad, but we'll clean it up"
 
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