Leonardite
- Terre Haute, IN
Word is that Carroll is "Player-4" in the FBI report
FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation
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the timeline shows BU wouldn't have been at OSU. He left a few days after the teams loss to Mich. If Carroll took the bribe to come back to OSU that would be on Evans. Carroll almost followed BU here but chose to stay at OSU. Not saying BU is totally innocent but in this case he would not have been in Stillwater during this time.
Gives a new meaning to the term March Madness....
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-co...hes-top-programs-lottery-picks-224417174.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-co...hes-top-programs-lottery-picks-224417174.html
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pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/ticking-timebomb-fbi-case-should-scare-all-of-college-hoops/?src=rss
“When this all comes out, Hall of Fame coaches should be scared, lottery picks won’t be eligible to play and almost half of the 16 teams the NCAA showed on its initial NCAA tournament show this weekend should worry about their appearance being vacated.”
“When this all comes out, Hall of Fame coaches should be scared, lottery picks won’t be eligible to play and almost half of the 16 teams the NCAA showed on its initial NCAA tournament show this weekend should worry about their appearance being vacated.”
Luckily we do not have to worry about this, we have already vacated our appearance with our level of play.
Who really knows for sure until all the schools and players (families of players) are released. You do have to worry about Ramey though in my opinion. He was a Louisville recruit and we know for sure Louisville has been involved in very sketchy recruiting. Then you look at what his father said a while back about them wanting to wait and see if anyone else is named before he commits. On top of that you have to look at the schools who have moved on from him who seemed very interested at one point. Some of those schools signed point guards so maybe that's why they aren't interested anymore.
Of course this is all just speculation and is more guilt (if that) by association. The Ramey's could be waiting because they have done nothing wrong at all and don't want to be associated with any wrongdoings by others again.
One thing I think the NCAA should do at this point is tell all schools that if they sign a player who is later linked to the investigation that only the player will be punished, suspended, or whatever and not the school that recruited him. No games, or anything should happen to the schools that end up recruiting a player who did something wrong as long as that school wasn't involved in the investigation.
Don't think I really answered your question though did I?
Luckily we do not have to worry about this, we have already vacated our appearance with our level of play.
I like this spinzone. We secretly imparted sanctions upon ourselves just in case we get caught up in this mess. It's the perfect punishment
Deleted member 19448
D
Guest
I am of the mind on this that it needs to go 1 of 2 directions. Air all the dirty laundry of all programs. If Illinois is implicated in it, it's not ideal, but so be it. From that point forward, the sport either needs to return to being about student athletes (get rid of the 1 and done types, etc) or just open the floodgates & let the money flow freely.
The sport needs to find honesty. I sort of don't care which honesty it finds, just be honest about what it is. I get so sick of seeing guys like Coach K, Calipari, etc being held up as these great leaders of men & bastions of virtue when I think we all know what has been going on behind the scenes. Can't say that I blame them as they have both been wildly successful & gotten very rich off of the system. It's time to call a spade a spade though.
The sport needs to find honesty. I sort of don't care which honesty it finds, just be honest about what it is. I get so sick of seeing guys like Coach K, Calipari, etc being held up as these great leaders of men & bastions of virtue when I think we all know what has been going on behind the scenes. Can't say that I blame them as they have both been wildly successful & gotten very rich off of the system. It's time to call a spade a spade though.
Worst case scenario is if BU is implicated. No matter how minor, his names gonna be tarnished something rough. I'd like to believe Whitman did his HW, but who knows. Still, it wount directly be linked to UIUC (which is a good thing).
If for some reason Groce was behind something (or Weber, but thats even more laughable), I dont see it hurting the university much, considering a ton of other school will have current HC's under the gun.
No way BU has done shady stuff since coming here.
Well said. Sadly theres about 1000 "solutions" and getting a majority to agree on one is gonna be tough. I think the most likely thing thatll happen is going back to letting HS kids go direct to NBA. If the NCAA/NBA cared about these kids, they'd make them get some sort of college eduction degree before allowing them to play pro ball, but that is never gonna happen.
Unfortunately Lamont Evans was talking money the day after Underwood hired him as an assistant.The report is very damaging and he talks about giving kids money and steering them toward the agents at Okie State throughout the 2016-17 season.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/998756/download
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
Fifty programs? Sheesh. That would make any bracket look like Swiss cheese after all is said and done. Of course, how many years back would you want to go lining out the names of offending programs in vacating placements.
Going forward, I've seen some advocate paying college basketball players. If that's the case, you have a similar situation to pro sports and the cities they "represent." There's really no connection of the players to a university other than the jersey they're wearing. I've always thought it silly for fans of a pro sports team to say "we won." Really? What part did you play? It's they won.
My druthers, and admittedly I'm old school, is for true student athletes, with close monitoring of the student part, more like what you see at Division II schools. My wife is a department chair at a Div II school and they walk the straight and narrow, because in part because it's the right thing to do, but also because the NCAA has no fear of repercussions if they penalize a Div II school like they would a blue blood.
Here's a modest proposal: In selecting the Tournament teams, count against schools that have players/students leaving to go pro/drop out without a degree. A player/student transferring to another school wouldn't penalize the school. Players flunking out would, however, trigger a penalty. The point, of course, is to put teeth into the concept of student-athlete.
As far as I'm concerned, the NBA should be able to rob the cradle. Why should a kid have to go to college for a year to become an NBA pro? Why shouldn't people be able to freely contract their services? For college sports, however, I find the one-and-done reprehensible and a fig leaf at best for NBA "respectability." Get back to real student-athletes.
Yeah, I'm naive and old school. But them's my druthers.
In the meantime...opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: ...I'll be buying stock in Orville Redenbacher.
Going forward, I've seen some advocate paying college basketball players. If that's the case, you have a similar situation to pro sports and the cities they "represent." There's really no connection of the players to a university other than the jersey they're wearing. I've always thought it silly for fans of a pro sports team to say "we won." Really? What part did you play? It's they won.
My druthers, and admittedly I'm old school, is for true student athletes, with close monitoring of the student part, more like what you see at Division II schools. My wife is a department chair at a Div II school and they walk the straight and narrow, because in part because it's the right thing to do, but also because the NCAA has no fear of repercussions if they penalize a Div II school like they would a blue blood.
Here's a modest proposal: In selecting the Tournament teams, count against schools that have players/students leaving to go pro/drop out without a degree. A player/student transferring to another school wouldn't penalize the school. Players flunking out would, however, trigger a penalty. The point, of course, is to put teeth into the concept of student-athlete.
As far as I'm concerned, the NBA should be able to rob the cradle. Why should a kid have to go to college for a year to become an NBA pro? Why shouldn't people be able to freely contract their services? For college sports, however, I find the one-and-done reprehensible and a fig leaf at best for NBA "respectability." Get back to real student-athletes.
Yeah, I'm naive and old school. But them's my druthers.
In the meantime...
opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: ...I'll be buying stock in Orville Redenbacher.As far as I'm concerned, the NBA should be able to rob the cradle. Why should a kid have to go to college for a year to become an NBA pro? Why shouldn't people be able to freely contract their services? For college sports, however, I find the one-and-done reprehensible and a fig leaf at best for NBA "respectability." Get back to real student-athletes.
Yeah, I'm naive and old school. But them's my druthers.
In the meantime...
Why should a kid have to go to college to become a lawyer, a doctor, or hundreds of other jobs first?
... by the time the age limit was introduced there had been 40 players to enter the draft directly out of high school. Nearly all of those players ranked with the elite prospects in their high school classes. Seven were rated the No. 1 prospect in their respective classes.
Only nine of the preps-to-pros prospects were eventually chosen to participate in at least one NBA All-Star Game.
Of the 28 players selected for the 2018 NBA All-Star Game, 11 entered the draft as one-and-done prospects.
"We’re really not equipped to develop them at the NBA level," one Eastern Conference scout told SN. "We would have to invest much more into the G League staff to do the same work. We take for granted what they get taught in college."
So 9 out of 40 high school to pros played in an NBA All Star game compared to 11 one and done players in this years game alone.
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So 22.5% of the direct to pro kids were recognized as elite in their field. How does that compare to NBA draftees overall? I don't see how that is an argument against it.
It also doesn't bother me that the NBA doesn't currently have the resources to develop players. They will draft the players they think will be productive. No one is forcing the kids to declare for the draft. If they think they need the development that college ball will provide, they'll go that route. If they think (or more to the point, if NBA scouts think) they have what it takes, more power to them.
Illiini
- In the land of the Nittany Lion
I'm more concerned with college ball being college ball rather than a farm system for the NBA. That's my preference.
On the other hand, if college ball being pre-NBA is what you want, why not rip the fig leaf off and have all players be paid for their services and not worry about attending class? There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It would be young pro players representing a college in the same way NBA teams represent cities. It's not "bad." It's just different.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
I guess I'm old school too, cuz I agree with all that you're saying. Ultimately, I'd like college sports to be an avenue for students that excel at something other than academics to be able to showcase those talents and, at the same time, receive a free education by doing so. In some cases, those students will find that those talents are strong enough for the to make $ professionally - and, in that case, go right ahead and leverage that whenever you'd like. In the case a person is already able to do that before entering college - then go right ahead as well.
Yes, the quality of the talent at some of the revenue sports may drop somewhat, but I don't think people will really notice/care that much. The quality of play in college sports, esp. football, is a far step below NFL already, and that doesn't seem to bother people.
Once you start paying them, I agree that it's not "wrong", but it changes the incentive structure materially on what the purpose of these programs are, essentially becoming the minor leagues for the professional counterparts. The "academics" or "school spirit" aspect of it becomes a mere formality, thereby codifying the "ain't here to play school" mentality.
I know I'd care much less about "Illini" sports in that kind of world.
I think it would be real easy to do for 20 or so elite high schoolers what they already do for the college guys. Give them a combine, give them feedback, and let them know where their draft stock is. Do it in late March after the high school season, but before the second signing period.
Of course, the nba would have to want to do this, and they might not find it worth their resources/time.
Fortunately none of that benefited Coach U or OSU, so it won't affect us.
SampsonRelpenk
- Edwardsville, IL
Especially since we would have absolutely no success to show for it.
No, the US Attorney's indictment said that head coaches weren't involved in directing players to agents. Rather it was exclusively through assistants like Evans because head coaches had too much to lose to take the $10,000 or $20,000 agents were handing out for these favors. They said they wanted to keep the circle tight to limit the chances of being exposed. Cases change as they move forward, but when the conspirators plan was to keep these things from head coaches from the get go, it's pretty doubtful they would change their plot.
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This is all from an NBA perspective. James, Bryant, Garnett, etc were still going to be top picks even if they had to go to college or a pro league before joining the NBA. But from an NBA point and investment, teams would have a better idea on a prospect if he played against college level opponents instead of High School kids before they drafted him, even if it's just one year.
The article did try to compare the 2 groups as best they could.
To get a sharper picture of the difference in the performance of one-and-done players vs. those from the preps-to-pros era, Sporting News looked for a fair sample size of early career development among each group. So we took those who entered the draft between 2007 and 2012 and examined their first six seasons as pros. Then we worked backward from 2005, the last draft in which high school players could enter, and examined the six prior draft classes to see how the preps-to-pros performed in their first six seasons.
The sample of players drafted in the age-limit period was larger: 52 one-and-dones as compared to 34 preps-to-pros. But the success of those who’d played in college was significantly greater.
Some of the key points:
— Only three of the preps who entered between 2000-05 were selected for the NBA All-Star Game in their first six seasons, for a total of nine appearances. Four of those were by LeBron James. Ten of the collegians were chosen as All-Stars a total of 21 times.
— The preps played in an average of 215 games in those six years and produced an average of 2,462 total points. The collegians played in 247 games and produced 2,957 points.
— Slightly less than 62 percent of the preps appeared in the playoffs in their first six seasons, for an average of 19 games total. The collegians’ percentage of playoff participants was 69 percent for an average of 18 games.
— 82 percent of the high school entrants played in the NBA, compared to 90 percent of the collegians.
— 26 percent of the high schoolers could be considered "busts," compared to 21 percent of collegians.
Disclaimer: I don't watch the NBA at all but I can sit and watch college ball all day long. My opinions are extremely biased on the preps to pro vs. one and done rule. I wish they'd up to 2 and done, let other college teams get some top talent besides the same Blue Blood schools.
I still think the G league for a year for prep drafts enables kids that are desperately chasing an early paycheck do get paid and would cleanup college ball to some degree.
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