Football Coaching Staff / Coaching Carousel Thread

[Deleted member 11196]

It’s a harder sell each time I’m sure. That said, it takes one AD to make one correct coaching hire to turn that around. Look at Wisconsin. They were bad for eons. Then Barry Alvarez came to town. They’ve been great since.

Barry Alvarez was 0-8, 2-6, 3-5 in conference his first 3 years.... many people wanted him gone... The AD stuck with him and he was 6-1-1 in year 4, but slid back to 4-3-1, then further slid to 3-4-1 in year 5 & 6.....

My point is this: Re-builds that are in fact full and total rebuilds need TIME.... lots of time....

 

[ILL_INI]

I hired the wrong (expletive) guys and are still working our way through a bunch of recruiting years that stunk!! It's year three! If these (expletives) can't get it right I will not just say fire them and start over!! That's not the way to go about it. If I (expletive) it up that bad I will take the bullet and ride off into the sunset! I will stay old school!! I will not die doing this (expletive)!! Stay tuned!

Maybe Lovie will pull a Gary Andersen.

Gary Andersen walked away on Monday, threw in the keys, and tore up a contract with Oregon State that would have paid him $12.6 million in guaranteed compensation over the next four seasons.

 

[Score105]

Barry Alvarez was 0-8, 2-6, 3-5 in conference his first 3 years.... many people wanted him gone... The AD stuck with him and he was 6-1-1 in year 4, but slid back to 4-3-1, then further slid to 3-4-1 in year 5 & 6.....

My point is this: Re-builds that are in fact full and total rebuilds need TIME.... lots of time....

And for every Barry Alvarez comp there are hundreds that should have been fired a year sooner than they were actually fired. A bad coach is a bad coach no matter how much time you give him.

 

[ILL_INI]

Barry Alvarez was 0-8, 2-6, 3-5 in conference his first 3 years.... many people wanted him gone... The AD stuck with him and he was 6-1-1 in year 4, but slid back to 4-3-1, then further slid to 3-4-1 in year 5 & 6.....

My point is this: Re-builds that are in fact full and total rebuilds need TIME.... lots of time....

Barry Alvarez was a successful collegiate defensive coordinator when he was hired. What was the largest margin of defeat in those early years? My point is this: You can't possibly be serious comparing Lovie Smith to Barry Alvarez, even if you give Lovie the "first year pass."

 

[bobbob]

Anyone voting for firing the staff - what is the next step?
Who takes the job if they know they only have three seasons?

 

[UofI08]

There’s seriously no argument to be made for keeping Lovie.
Performance:
The 4 wins means nothing when you’re uncompetitive the rest of the year. 2 wins were scheduled, 1 was a historically awful Rutgers team. The only “real” win that Lovie got us was Minnesota. In a vacuum 4 wins is fine. When combined with the performance the rest of the year, it basically doesn’t matter at all.
Progress:
The only progress shown was on offense, by bringing in a coach that has complete control of that side of the ball. Yes Lovie made the hire, and it appears good, but when you screw up the first OC hire as badly as Lovie did, any sign of competence looks amazing.
On the defense, Lovies specialty, somehow we have managed to continue to get worse, year by year and game by game. It’s inexplicable.
Recruiting:
There’s 2 great prospects and a lot of meh. If people look at it honestly, Lovie hasn’t been much of an upgrade over the previous 5 years.

The decision is crystal clear. The 2 good recruits aren’t worth another year of Lovie. If you step back and read the story, instead of searching between the lines, the only conclusion you can come to is Lovie is either completely incompetent or not putting in the necessary effort. There’s no other explanation.

 

[BWBW]

Don't mince words, UofI08, tell us what you really think.

 

[MadSeason]

There’s seriously no argument to be made for keeping Lovie.
Performance:
The 4 wins means nothing when you’re uncompetitive the rest of the year. 2 wins were scheduled, 1 was a historically awful Rutgers team. The only “real” win that Lovie got us was Minnesota. In a vacuum 4 wins is fine. When combined with the performance the rest of the year, it basically doesn’t matter at all.
Progress:
The only progress shown was on offense, by bringing in a coach that has complete control of that side of the ball. Yes Lovie made the hire, and it appears good, but when you screw up the first OC hire as badly as Lovie did, any sign of competence looks amazing.
On the defense, Lovies specialty, somehow we have managed to continue to get worse, year by year and game by game. It’s inexplicable.
Recruiting:
There’s 2 great prospects and a lot of meh. If people look at it honestly, Lovie hasn’t been much of an upgrade over the previous 5 years.

The decision is crystal clear. The 2 good recruits aren’t worth another year of Lovie. If you step back and read the story, instead of searching between the lines, the only conclusion you can come to is Lovie is either completely incompetent or not putting in the necessary effort. There’s no other explanation.

Clearly you have made your mind up, but that doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate argument to the contrary.

Not all rebuilds look the same and this one didn't have the advantages in timing of most. There was a problem with offense so it was addressed and looks promising going forward. There was a problem with D and that person has been let go as well. No it isn't going to be fixed midseason with limited practice time and down 2 staff members. Finally your characterization of the recruiting class as 2 good ones and a bunch of meh, just really doesn't fit with the offer lists of the meh's you refer to.

 

[Deleted member 569417]

Anyone voting for firing the staff - what is the next step?
Who takes the job if they know they only have three seasons?

Why do you assume they only have 3 seasons?

 

[jrichisamazing]

There’s seriously no argument to be made for keeping Lovie.
Performance:
The 4 wins means nothing when you’re uncompetitive the rest of the year. 2 wins were scheduled, 1 was a historically awful Rutgers team. The only “real” win that Lovie got us was Minnesota. In a vacuum 4 wins is fine. When combined with the performance the rest of the year, it basically doesn’t matter at all.
Progress:
The only progress shown was on offense, by bringing in a coach that has complete control of that side of the ball. Yes Lovie made the hire, and it appears good, but when you screw up the first OC hire as badly as Lovie did, any sign of competence looks amazing.
On the defense, Lovies specialty, somehow we have managed to continue to get worse, year by year and game by game. It’s inexplicable.
Recruiting:
There’s 2 great prospects and a lot of meh. If people look at it honestly, Lovie hasn’t been much of an upgrade over the previous 5 years.

The decision is crystal clear. The 2 good recruits aren’t worth another year of Lovie. If you step back and read the story, instead of searching between the lines, the only conclusion you can come to is Lovie is either completely incompetent or not putting in the necessary effort. There’s no other explanation.

There is a perfectly simple explanation. Lovie is learning the college coaching ropes. He's learning what kind of guys he needs on his staff. He's figuring out how to bring more talent in.

We want results right away, but look at all the new faces on both sides of the ball. He needs time to at least have the same guys on the field for more than a year. There is 1 group that has done that...the O-Line. And it is one of the best in the B1G.

To me, Whitman's decision is simple. Sit down with Lovie and ask him what he has learned and what he's going to do to improve. If Lovie has a plan and knows what needs to be done then let him try to do it. If he sounds like he has no idea what he's doing then let him go.

 

[UofI08]

Clearly you have made your mind up, but that doesn't mean there isn't a legitimate argument to the contrary.

Not all rebuilds look the same and this one didn't have the advantages in timing of most. There was a problem with offense so it was addressed and looks promising going forward. There was a problem with D and that person has been let go as well. No it isn't going to be fixed midseason with limited practice time and down 2 staff members. Finally your characterization of the recruiting class as 2 good ones and a bunch of meh, just really doesn't fit with the offer lists of the meh's you refer to.

Going reverse.
1. Meh doesn’t mean bad. It meant nothing special, normal guys.
2. 3 years is plenty of time to show competence and competitiveness.
3. Defense is Lovie’s specialty. He needs to show some signs of development and game planning. It’s not realistic to fix something mid year, but it’s assumed a coach can establish something in 3 seasons.
4. I agree on the offense stuff.
5. I understand this is a rebuild, and I’m fine with the record. But you need to show something.

 

[Deleted member 746094]

Lovie has too much pride to allow another DC to come in and run everything his own way. If JW forces Lovie’s hand with the DC hire and scheme I can see a mutual agreement in which Lovie moves on and gives a little relief in his buyout. I just don’t see him running anything but his Cover 2 as it is how he made his name in the coaching profession.

 

[UofI08]

There is a perfectly simple explanation. Lovie is learning the college coaching ropes. He's learning what kind of guys he needs on his staff. He's figuring out how to bring more talent in.

This is what I mean by incompetence. Obviously Lovie knows football. But he clearly has no idea about the college version. You don’t hire a 60 year old with a 30 mil contract to learn on the job while spending 3 years burning the program to the ground

 

[MadSeason]

Going reverse.
1. Meh doesn’t mean bad. It meant nothing special, normal guys.
2. 3 years is plenty of time to show competence and competitiveness.
3. Defense is Lovie’s specialty. He needs to show some signs of development and game planning. It’s not realistic to fix something mid year, but it’s assumed a coach can establish something in 3 seasons.
4. I agree on the offense stuff.
5. I understand this is a rebuild, and I’m fine with the record. But you need to show something.

This is why I think it is critical for Lovie to have an explanation for what happened this year on D, and what the plan looks like going forward for Whitman. We aren't going to hear it obviously but Whitman needs to be convinced. We just don't know everything involved.

It is Lovie's system, but there seemed to be some disagreement on personnel between he and Nickerson. It's possible that Lovie was loyal to a fault until he couldn't be any longer. I know these haven't been proven and could sound like excuse making, but we just don't know internally like we didn't with McGee

 

[IlliniFaninHoosierLand]

EIU looking for a new head coach:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1064242144926416901

https://eiupanthers.com/news/2018/11/18/eiu-does-not-renew-football-coach-damerons-contract.aspx

 

[TMC999]

It has to be a difficult decision for Whitman, because I have to believe most of the fan base is either angry or is apathetic. Do you get egg on your face and admit this thing isn’t going to work, take the financial hit, along with the PR hit or do you go another year and potentially have an empty stadium with bad football and possibly make this worse? I don’t envy where Whitman is, but he’s smart and I believe is willing to learn from his mistakes. I still have a lot of faith in him.

This is what worries me the most. Anger is bad, but it's because people care. Apathy is setting in and it takes much, much longer to get out of that phase.

 

[Love the Illini]

Obviously Illinois football is in a bad place right now Saturday was an absolute embarrassment in all aspects of the game. Attendance is at a historic low showing an empty stadium on TV every week certainly does nothing to help the image of the program. The question is what to do next. Lovie has a very expensive buyout and do we want to start a complete rebuild again. If Lovie is fired who is going to be the next coach is going to be a big issue. Illinois is seen as a bad job and most up and coming head coaches and coordinators are not going to take the job. Whitman has his work cut out for him Illinois has not made a good football hire in a long time and would probably need to get lucky with a little known coach who hits it big. I don't think bringing in another retread coach like Lovie is the way to go. If I had to guess whether most people like it or not Whitman stays with Lovie though he will be seen as a coach on the way out and that will hurt recruiting. Right now only 10 verbals in this years class lowest in the Big 10. Not many positives but Illinois has put themselves in this spot. There is some talent on the roster in the lower grades but not enough to turn things around without a truly difference making coach.

 

[IdahoIllini]

Barry Alvarez was 0-8, 2-6, 3-5 in conference his first 3 years.... many people wanted him gone... The AD stuck with him and he was 6-1-1 in year 4, but slid back to 4-3-1, then further slid to 3-4-1 in year 5 & 6.....

My point is this: Re-builds that are in fact full and total rebuilds need TIME.... lots of time....

Yes, but his teams, even in the lean years, were competitive on the field. You could see he was building something. Recruiting was going the right way. Lovie, OTOH, has shown none of that. In year three, with nearly a blank check, he just took the worst defeat we’ve suffered in 112 years. And it occurred on our home turf to a middling Iowa team that had just lost three straight and looked incompetent on offense doing so.

I’m all for a good rebuild story. This isn’t it. Time does not equal success. Success equals success. Going back to Lou’s early years we had struggled but progress was evident. Both on and off the court. I’m not seeing that here. I’m seeing a team/program get continual worse and currently sitting with the lowest ranked recruiting class in the B1G.

Even with Beckmeat there was some progress. Not so much with this group.

 

[chief2007]

Barry Alvarez was 0-8, 2-6, 3-5 in conference his first 3 years.... many people wanted him gone... The AD stuck with him and he was 6-1-1 in year 4, but slid back to 4-3-1, then further slid to 3-4-1 in year 5 & 6.....

My point is this: Re-builds that are in fact full and total rebuilds need TIME.... lots of time....

All rebuilds don't take lots of time. Many rebuilds happen very quickly.

 

[IdahoIllini]

Anyone voting for firing the staff - what is the next step?
Who takes the job if they know they only have three seasons?

When you have 5 million a year and a huge assistant salary pool plenty of guys will listen. Find the next Babers, Brohm. Hell, go hire Babers. He has ties to the Midwest and isn’t making that now.

The real problem is finding the right up and comer, and then keeping them. If they leave for greener pastures an AD has to step up and hit another homer. It’s the nature of the business.

 

[IdahoIllini]

There is a perfectly simple explanation. Lovie is learning the college coaching ropes. He's learning what kind of guys he needs on his staff. He's figuring out how to bring more talent in.

We want results right away, but look at all the new faces on both sides of the ball. He needs time to at least have the same guys on the field for more than a year. There is 1 group that has done that...the O-Line. And it is one of the best in the B1G.

To me, Whitman's decision is simple. Sit down with Lovie and ask him what he has learned and what he's going to do to improve. If Lovie has a plan and knows what needs to be done then let him try to do it. If he sounds like he has no idea what he's doing then let him go.

Frankly, if Whitmanpaid 5 million a year to a guy who needs to “learn on the job” then he is even more incompetent than I ever could have imagined. That would be the bumbliest of bumbles in high dollar coaching hires.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

Frankly, if Whitmanpaid 5 million a year to a guy who needs to “learn on the job” then he is even more incompetent than I ever could have imagined. That would be the bumbliest of bumbles in high dollar coaching hires.

Yeah.....if that's the case, we're paying huge money for somebody to learn on the job.

If you're patient enough to give somebody time to learn on the job, then there are plenty of young, hot coordinators to consider. And you can get any of them for a fraction of the price.

My concern with Lovie from the get-go was two-fold: (1) wasn't a college guy, and thus didn't really have the recruiting and staff issues figured out, and (2) doesn't have the energy to build this program back up.

So far, both seem to be pretty valid concerns.

 

[oldschool51]

I give coach smith next year if we are in a bowl game he stays if not he goes

 

[ChiefGritty]

Barry Alvarez was 0-8, 2-6, 3-5 in conference his first 3 years.... many people wanted him gone... The AD stuck with him and he was 6-1-1 in year 4, but slid back to 4-3-1, then further slid to 3-4-1 in year 5 & 6.....

My point is this: Re-builds that are in fact full and total rebuilds need TIME.... lots of time....

Wisconsin beat #12 Ohio State in Alvarez' year 3. They lost to decent Iowa and *cries* Illinois teams by one point each. They kept things respectable against #2 Washington in Seattle.

It takes time to win with consistency, that much is true. There is no evidence it takes more than a year or two to show a pulse, to show some kind of improvement, if you're rebuilding to anywhere good.

We're all desperate for this to work. Nobody here WANTS to fire Lovie Smith. We're all eager for evidence that it's working. That evidence is not on offer. We have been a shockingly poor, listless, incompetent football team this season. Below any expectations. It's not about wins and losses when you're getting humiliated 63-0 on senior day by a middling team. The culture is rotten.

 

[SKane]

At the start of the year, I said that four wins was a reasonable goal, given the schedule and the team. It looks like that is how things will turn out, unless Northwestern's team gets the flu before the game.

However, I was expecting that a team that could win four games would look respectable in at least a few of the losses. Maybe you could say about a game (one half against South Florida and one half against Penn State). Add one quarter against Nebraska to be generous.

So I feel more critical than I want to post. Losing 63 - 0 does that to any cat.