I would say the inheritance that Zook got was significantly better and Beckman's inheritance was slightly better even if you discount those 2012 seniors. That said it was the cloud that was left over the program from Beckman and the timing of Lovie's hiring put him at a bigger disadvantage than his predecessors.
Football Coaching Staff / Coaching Carousel Thread
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I would say the inheritance that Zook got was significantly better and Beckman's inheritance was slightly better even if you discount those 2012 seniors. That said it was the cloud that was left over the program from Beckman and the timing of Lovie's hiring put him at a bigger disadvantage than his predecessors.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Agreed on the timing, but as far as clouds are concerned, Lovie's hiring itself was the biggest boost of positive energy and momentum this football program has had outside of the period from Benn's commitment through Guenther's Folly in Detroit since Turner's Sugar Bowl and maybe longer.
One thing new coaches do NOT inherit is the vibe the old guy left around the place, whether that's good or bad.
Sorry off topic but
The Benn thing was great wasn't it? I was convinced after Juice, Benn and Martez committed we were headed for glory
ok back to our current Titanic
Every situation is different. Lovie lost a lot of upperclassmen which makes it tough to win. He could've loaded the team with JUCO's with more experience, but does that lead to winning consistently? Not necessarily. But the route Lovie has taken is getting a bunch of high school guys and giving them playing time early. That definitely takes time.
Lovie arguably inherited the worst situation any Illini coach has ever inherited. He will likely get one more year.
But if they get smacked 63-0 against NW then I think it is a 50/50 chance.
But if they get smacked 63-0 against NW then I think it is a 50/50 chance.
I agree. If the team doesn't respond to support their coach then I think things get a bit more murky.
I think they will and will still lose handily, but not like last week. Lost in last weeks debacle was that the D actually played so-so
Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum so if I step on something rotten please let me know; no negative intentions here. I have taken every move Illinois football has made in the last 10 years in a positive way and used them to help bolster my hope that we can get back in the thick of it. The game last week crushed me. That's after several other crushing blows like, most recently, Maryland and Purdue. I just can't find any more excuses. I loved the Lovie hire but it just isn't working. As I watch him both on TV and in person at the games this year I find so little emotion. He doesn't seem engaged at all. Even the guys that have some history to stand on are engaged such as Saban and Meyer. Lovie's stoic manner might work in the NFL but these players are not NFL players, closer in performance skill than maturity. They need more support from their mentors. I don't think Lovie is into this anymore and needs to step down for the good of the program. First post way too long, sorry!
It is not so much the low number of wins this year it is the lack of the ability to compete in so many games that has people wondering if a coaching change is needed. The games against Iowa, Nebraska and Purdue were games that Illinois should have been competitive in even if they ended up getting beat and we were pounded. Year three is when you hope to see the program become more competitive on the field even if it doesn't show in wins and losses and that has not been the case this year and right now it doesn't look like they can be much more competitive next year. Whitman has a lot of issues to think about including the complete lack of any interest in football at Illinois shown by the embarrassing fan turnout at games. Illinois football may be at its lowest point in the last 50 years and that is saying something for a program that has been barely average for much of that time.
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
I'm interested t
I'm wondering the same thing. I hope it doesn't happen, but I didn't think Iowa would crush us, and they are not playing as well as NU. I'm sure it won't be that lopsided if we do lose, but if we look as inept as last Saturday, does it change anything? For either us and our opinion as fans, or, more importantly, for Whitman?
I'm wondering the same thing. I hope it doesn't happen, but I didn't think Iowa would crush us, and they are not playing as well as NU. I'm sure it won't be that lopsided if we do lose, but if we look as inept as last Saturday, does it change anything? For either us and our opinion as fans, or, more importantly, for Whitman?
The thing about this,, and my memory could be failing me,, but have we really even courted any true up-and-comers in our 5 previous coaching searches? Kevin Sumlin, apparently?
Tepper (in-house promotion), Turner (NFL), Zook (SEC retread, been around the block), Beckman (obviously not), Lovie (11th hour, NFL),,, none of these were anything close.
So when people say someone like John Holocek, it may be partly tongue-in-cheek and certainly would be very high risk, it's a lot closer to where I'd be looking at this point, which is outside-the-box within the Group of Five, or FCS, or even D2 and D3,,, young, hungry, sharp, possibly with pedigree.
Honestly, what have we got to lose at this point?
I actually like the Les Miles hire by Kansas.....I mean what do they have to lose? Les can recruit with the best of them yes he is old but he genuinely wants to be back out there and he is going to hire a staff loaded with recruiters. I also think Les connects well with his players even for his age. Not saying its going to work in Kansas but they didnt have anything to lose and took a shot with a guy who has big ties to college football and can recruit his a$$ off.
So what's the status of meme option coaches? Still no?
Jeff Monken....
I'll trade you Monken's, what about Todd? He turned around Southern Miss and might be looking for a job with Tampa Bay's struggles. He lost play calling responsibilities recently, so it seems to be just a matter of time.
I agree. He’s basically an older, more accomplished Zook. I’m somewhat surprised he took the Kansas job before seeing what else opens up.
I think he really was intrigued by the challenge of trying to turn a program around.
When we hired Beckman, my choice was Mike Leach. In his first 3 seasons at Washington State he was 3-9, 6-7 and 3-9, so not much better than Beckman. Since then he has gone 9-4, 8-5, 9-4 and this season he is 10-1. They gave him four seasons to become a winner. I think we can give Lovie another season. I would rather have Lovie at the podium than Leach or Beckman in any case.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I quite like Leach at the podium and he was my #1 choice when we hired Beckman too.
But, see (using F/+ ratings):
Leach at Washington State:
2012: -31.0% (105th)
2013: +3.7% (53rd)
2014: -8.0% (77th)
Beckman at Illinois:
2012: -32.0% (107th)
2013: -4.0% (71st)
2014: -8.0% (78th)
Lovie at Illinois:
2016: -25.3% (103rd)
2017: -45.5% (119th)
2018: -36.8% (105th) (through the Nebraska game, will go down)
I'm personally very conflicted on what the right answer is on Lovie's future. But what is plainly incorrect is that there is anything in what we've seen on the field that is indicative of or can be analogized to a successful program building project. An objective, well reasoned case for keeping Lovie has to rely on factors outside of that. We would be blazing a new trail in college football history for a coach to be this bad in his first three years and end up doing anything.
Last game for me is extremely hard to judge. We just have no depth. The loss of Dudek, Corbin, and Epstein proved to be insurmountable on offense. That said, idk what is going on with the WR’s. The coaches must have known we weren’t gonna be great though because they went after Meadors. Defense....No Bennett Williams, Sydney Brown, Stanley Green, Cam Watkins....by the end of that game we were almost back to last year again playing freshman and walkons at DB. The lack of depth, particularly in football where it is necessary, can absolutely decimate a team like ours where we don’t have near enough in the first place. Maybe when Roundtree is a senior....but even then losing 7+ starters or near starters is a lot to swallow for a team that isn’t elite. I mean how many players were we down by the end of that game? 15? Carter, Dudek, Corbin, Epstein, Williams, Brown, Green, Watkins, Oladipo, Woods, Jackson, Meadors, Dorsey, and i think more were injured in game. That’s double the senior class.
Further, I find it difficult to analyze growth when we appear to have grossly underestimated how much players wear down in a season, particularly when 15 regulars are out, which increases the workload on the rest.
It’s hard to expect anyone to win, Lovie or otherwise, based on the state of the roster and the injuries.
Further, I find it difficult to analyze growth when we appear to have grossly underestimated how much players wear down in a season, particularly when 15 regulars are out, which increases the workload on the rest.
It’s hard to expect anyone to win, Lovie or otherwise, based on the state of the roster and the injuries.
Injuries do hit a team harder that has yet to build a lot of depth. I guess the counter would be that we have been bad on D all year regardless of health. 2 of the last 3 games the defense has actually played a little better and surprisingly vs Iowa the D was by far our best unit. The offense and special teams just disintegrated.
I will give the Offense a bit of a pass vs Iowa as we were just missing so many weapons against a good D, but the turnovers...
Special Teams? These last 2 weeks have been the worst two combined weeks I have ever seen at Illinois. That includes the Zook years. I don't know if its a depth thing again with a lot of guys not ready or what. 2 fumbled punts, 2 blocked punts and a return for TD? Simply awful
Right now I am curious, do pirates like lasagna? Anyway, I was never a Lovie fan and thought he was a bad hire at the time. I would still give him at least one more season. But what do I know. I thought firing Zook and Weber was a bad idea when it happened.
Deleted member 569417
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Well, it worked 100 years ago, and nothing at all has changed in College Football.
Good enough for me!
He was my number one choice too. UI is going to have to take risks in any coaching search because of their place in the collegiate landscape. I think this holds true for basketball now too, it didn’t use to.
Leach is a wildcard but the dude can coach and recruit to his system. He plays an exciting brand of ball too. Lovie’s style is like watching paint dry.
We needed a guy with some edge. I’d take a guy like Leach who tells it like it is.
Yes. Ron Guenther effectively killed the football program and its never recovered.
Would have been interesting to see if Tre Watson, Ke'Shawn Vaughn, Patrick Nelson, Desmond Cain, Dominic Thieman, Tito Odenigbo would have made a difference?
In a hypothetical world, we certainly would have seen those guys playing a lot of minutes this year considering how all the injuries have played out.
In a hypothetical world, we certainly would have seen those guys playing a lot of minutes this year considering how all the injuries have played out.
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