Football Coaching Staff / Coaching Carousel Thread

[illini0440]

I'm not sure this is an excuse. He's essentially telling the remaining staff that he has ample money to give all of them significant raises but decided to not use it. Saying the pool hasn't been cut just means that the money is not being used, or am I missing something?

Also goes towards analysts, support staff, etc.

 

[ChiefRocky]

Its all about the buy outs. Lovie was extended but his buy outs were not increased. A 10 year contract with no buy outs is essentially having 10-1 year contracts. Now if Lovie was extended 2 years and his buyouts doubled, that would be cause for concern. But as others have said, it was purely for recruiting and finding good assistant coaches. It seems like it has worked for 1 of the 2.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

And that's where the fear sets in if Illinois goes 6-6 next year and makes their first bowl game since 2014. Lovie will need another extension for the same reasons given for this year's extension, except it will need to be a REAL extension, with increased salaries and buyout provisions. I have no concerns about giving another contract, as a second contract means that progress is being shown and the program is moving forward. But 6-6 in year 4 would be the minimum-accept improvement and leaves Illinois in a potential situation where if the 2020 or 2021 goes sideways.

So if Lovie, after he adjusted to the College game, starts becoming successful, you are afraid of an extension... Improvement is improvement. If year 1 and 2 were his learning curve, then you cant judge year 4 as the end all be all. If you find a coach that you believe is going to better the program, you keep him. It doesn't matter what he has done in the past (legally speaking).

 

[mhuml32]

So if Lovie, after he adjusted to the College game, starts becoming successful, you are afraid of an extension... Improvement is improvement. If year 1 and 2 were his learning curve, then you cant judge year 4 as the end all be all. If you find a coach that you believe is going to better the program, you keep him. It doesn't matter what he has done in the past (legally speaking).

For me, going 6-6 in your fourth year, and that being a high water mark, should not be deemed a success. It's improvement, but it needs to be sustained and further improved to feel good about the hire. Lovie is still very much a question mark as a hire. For me, winning 6 games in 2019 doesn't make it a success. I'm afraid to give an extension because there still is a lot of risk. Has Lovie proven he can win? 2020 should be the high watermark, but does Illinois go off a cliff starting in 2021?

I say all of this rooting for Lovie to get an extension at the end of next season. If he doesn't, the team got 5 wins or less and we're hitting the reset button yet again. If he does, improvement was made. If it was incremental improvement, you give it to him knowing you might regret it in 12-24 months. If the team makes a big step forward (7-5 or 8-4?), then we all feel great about the extension.

 

[illinoistradition]

For me, going 6-6 in your fourth year, and that being a high water mark, should not be deemed a success. It's improvement, but it needs to be sustained and further improved to feel good about the hire. Lovie is still very much a question mark as a hire. For me, winning 6 games in 2019 doesn't make it a success. I'm afraid to give an extension because there still is a lot of risk. Has Lovie proven he can win? 2020 should be the high watermark, but does Illinois go off a cliff starting in 2021?

I say all of this rooting for Lovie to get an extension at the end of next season. If he doesn't, the team got 5 wins or less and we're hitting the reset button yet again. If he does, improvement was made. If it was incremental improvement, you give it to him knowing you might regret it in 12-24 months. If the team makes a big step forward (7-5 or 8-4?), then we all feel great about the extension.

Have you followed Illinois football over the last, forever? We are going to complain about going from 2 to 4 to 6 wins in three seasons when we have had, what, 5 winning seasons in 20 years? What players would come here if we did not extend him after a bowl season? Sorry, I am just not buying it. Whitman said he was going to give him his time, and he has. We knew that, and we knew 2019 was going to be THE year that could make or break his career here. We need to take what we can get, and if it is a bowl season for the first time in 5 years, I don't know how anyone could see that as anything other than a positive (barring any 63-0 disasters against slightly above average teams).

 

[MadSeason]

For me, going 6-6 in your fourth year, and that being a high water mark, should not be deemed a success. It's improvement, but it needs to be sustained and further improved to feel good about the hire. Lovie is still very much a question mark as a hire. For me, winning 6 games in 2019 doesn't make it a success. I'm afraid to give an extension because there still is a lot of risk. Has Lovie proven he can win? 2020 should be the high watermark, but does Illinois go off a cliff starting in 2021?

I say all of this rooting for Lovie to get an extension at the end of next season. If he doesn't, the team got 5 wins or less and we're hitting the reset button yet again. If he does, improvement was made. If it was incremental improvement, you give it to him knowing you might regret it in 12-24 months. If the team makes a big step forward (7-5 or 8-4?), then we all feel great about the extension.

I agree with much of what you are saying but one can arrive at 6-6 at vastly different ways which can either build confidence or devastate trust in your coach. Like Zook dropping the last 6 games of the season after a 6-0 start.

Next year if we win 6 games because our offense is scoring 40 ppg and our D is still bad, there is no way Lovie is getting extension in my world. However, if we win 6 games and the D is much improved and we lose some nail biters or our schedule turns out to be murderous then I would be more comfortable signing up for Lovie long term

 

[mhuml32]

Have you followed Illinois football over the last, forever? We are going to complain about going from 2 to 4 to 6 wins in three seasons when we have had, what, 5 winning seasons in 20 years? What players would come here if we did not extend him after a bowl season? Sorry, I am just not buying it. Whitman said he was going to give him his time, and he has. We knew that, and we knew 2019 was going to be THE year that could make or break his career here. We need to take what we can get, and if it is a bowl season for the first time in 5 years, I don't know how anyone could see that as anything other than a positive (barring any 63-0 disasters against slightly above average teams).

Beckman won 6 games in year 3 and plenty of people (myself included) complain about his tenure (and that was before the scandal that led to his termination). And like I said, they HAVE to extend him if he wins 6 games. I'm not advocating for refusing an extension. He might win 6 games next year and that's the plateau. He might win 6 games next year before really taking off in 2020. The concern for me is the risk. Six wins after four seasons is improvement but not to the point where it makes me feel confident to re-elevate his buyout to a level that can't be touched for 3-4 years (but it will happen regardless).

 

[Hoppy2105]

Lovie could have had all the money in the world to hire assistants and he would have made the same hires.....the assistant salary pool hasn't been cut.

Interesting.

And a little surprising.

 

[Blockhead]

Does Whitman really have to extend after next year? Wasn’t the extension this year for 2 additional years? It really made a lot of the sense assuming a 6-6 year this year. No need to extend 2 years in a row. And keeps the buyout low if 2020 is a step back.

Lovie could have had all the money in the world to hire assistants and he would have made the same hires.....the assistant salary pool hasn't been cut.

If true, this makes it worse for me. Tells me either nobody wants to work for Lovie, or Lovie doesn’t want anyone on the defense with experience in a different defensive philosophy.

 

[Deleted member 16340]

I think as long as 2019 does not stagnate or regress, Lovie gets 2020. 2020 is the year that his first recruiting class are seniors. But we still haven't seen any 5th year guys, and they will competing against those guys in fair numbers on established teams across the league. Now how Josh structures the future years on Lovies contract, we'll have to wait and see. Remember, Josh wants to establish a successful, replicacatible (is that a word?) program and the 4 year turnover for coaching staffs not what he wants to replicate.

 

[illinoistradition]

Beckman won 6 games in year 3 and plenty of people (myself included) complain about his tenure (and that was before the scandal that led to his termination). And like I said, they HAVE to extend him if he wins 6 games. I'm not advocating for refusing an extension. He might win 6 games next year and that's the plateau. He might win 6 games next year before really taking off in 2020. The concern for me is the risk. Six wins after four seasons is improvement but not to the point where it makes me feel confident to re-elevate his buyout to a level that can't be touched for 3-4 years (but it will happen regardless).

I was confused about your opinion on the extension because of this: "For me, winning 6 games in 2019 doesn't make it a success. I'm afraid to give an extension because there still is a lot of risk." I understand now, though. I felt the same way about Beckman, but going from 2 to 4 to 6 and being fairly competitive was a good sign. However, looking back, it seems that his recruiting would not have sustained that level of success, but who knows. At least our current coach is not seen as a doofus by the rest of the league/country.

 

[Orange Line to Blue Line]

I was confused about your opinion on the extension because of this: "For me, winning 6 games in 2019 doesn't make it a success. I'm afraid to give an extension because there still is a lot of risk." I understand now, though. I felt the same way about Beckman, but going from 2 to 4 to 6 and being fairly competitive was a good sign. However, looking back, it seems that his recruiting would not have sustained that level of success, but who knows. At least our current coach is not seen as a doofus by the rest of the league/country.

I hope no one on this board would disagree with your beckman "take". I always wonder how Coach Smiths age will play into this. I know Coach Smith isn't considered old. Its funny how different the NFL and NCAA trends are going. NFL wants the young coaches but the NCAA over the past few years has seen a jump in veteran coaches getting another chance (Mack Brown, Lovie Smith, Butch Davis, Les Miles). All of those coaches are rebuilding a program.

 

[thunderwear]

Just curious.

Are you saying that Lovie was unable to find experienced coaches that would mesh with his ideas?

It sounds like that, but the comment took the narrative to the extreme.

It seems that Lovie wants to run his defense and he thinks about things the way he learned from Kiffin. He is looking for people that are used to the whiteboard coaching and can think about his defense and help him improve his defense. Given those stipulations, it does preclude people that run different schemes. I don't think it has to do with getting along with others. I think it has to do with not wanting to spend this off season and year getting people up to speed.

But, to Blockhead's point, it does mean that he is excluding differing thoughts and opinions.

On a bright note, it will only take two people stepping up in a big way to improve drastically. Probably another lineman and a linebacker. Get another lineman that can create pressure and it helps the DBacks with takeaways. Also, get a linebacker that can make reads and has the speed to react.

 

[mhuml32]

I think as long as 2019 does not stagnate or regress, Lovie gets 2020. 2020 is the year that his first recruiting class are seniors. But we still haven't seen any 5th year guys, and they will competing against those guys in fair numbers on established teams across the league. Now how Josh structures the future years on Lovies contract, we'll have to wait and see. Remember, Josh wants to establish a successful, replicacatible (is that a word?) program and the 4 year turnover for coaching staffs not what he wants to replicate.

Absolutely, we all want Lovie to get to 2020. That is when the team's chance for success maximizes. Best case scenario (assuming Illinois goes 6-6) is Lovie is willing to get a slight bump after 2019 with a promise from Whitman that if 2020 goes well (7-8 wins or more), a more lucrative contract offer will be forthcoming. Would Lovie take it? Not sure.

 

[thunderwear]

And that's where the fear sets in if Illinois goes 6-6 next year and makes their first bowl game since 2014. Lovie will need another extension for the same reasons given for this year's extension, except it will need to be a REAL extension, with increased salaries and buyout provisions. I have no concerns about giving another contract, as a second contract means that progress is being shown and the program is moving forward. But 6-6 in year 4 would be the minimum-accept improvement and leaves Illinois in a potential situation where if the 2020 or 2021 goes sideways.

You are right, but 6-6 with bad recruiting wouldn't pass the smell test. 5 wins with significant improvement or 6 wins with improved recruiting would be fine for me. But I don't matter. Whitman does. I am sure he will take into account all factors.

 

[thunderwear]

For me, going 6-6 in your fourth year, and that being a high water mark, should not be deemed a success. It's improvement, but it needs to be sustained and further improved to feel good about the hire. Lovie is still very much a question mark as a hire. For me, winning 6 games in 2019 doesn't make it a success. I'm afraid to give an extension because there still is a lot of risk. Has Lovie proven he can win? 2020 should be the high watermark, but does Illinois go off a cliff starting in 2021?

I say all of this rooting for Lovie to get an extension at the end of next season. If he doesn't, the team got 5 wins or less and we're hitting the reset button yet again. If he does, improvement was made. If it was incremental improvement, you give it to him knowing you might regret it in 12-24 months. If the team makes a big step forward (7-5 or 8-4?), then we all feel great about the extension.

I agree that 2020 is the high watermark. But 2019 should still see improvement. The big extension should come after a 7-8 win season.

 

[ILL_INI]

Absolutely, we all want Lovie to get to 2020. That is when the team's chance for success maximizes. Best case scenario (assuming Illinois goes 6-6) is Lovie is willing to get a slight bump after 2019 with a promise from Whitman that if 2020 goes well (7-8 wins or more), a more lucrative contract offer will be forthcoming. Would Lovie take it? Not sure.

I'm sorry, but 6-6 would not warrant a bump of any size, nor any promises. He is already making more than James Franklin, Kirk Ferentz and Mark Dantonio.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

On a bright note, it will only take two people stepping up in a big way to improve drastically. Probably another lineman and a linebacker. Get another lineman that can create pressure and it helps the DBacks with takeaways. Also, get a linebacker that can make reads and has the speed to react.

Enter Calvin Avery and Milo Eflier

 

[Deleted member 654622]

I'm sorry, but 6-6 would not warrant a bump of any size, nor any promises. He is already making more than James Franklin, Kirk Ferentz and Mark Dantonio.

I agree with this. Extension is fine, but a raise....nah

 

[PtownIllini8]

Enter Calvin Avery and Milo Eflier

Avery played this year, but Verdis Brown, also a 4* DT, redshirted. Plus, Beason will give us a serious shutdown CB.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Avery played this year, but Verdis Brown, also a 4* DT, redshirted. Plus, Beason will give us a serious shutdown CB.

I know he played....as a true freshman. He should be much improved.
My "enter" was referring to two players "stepping up", not two players seeing the field for the first time

 

[BRucks]

Everyone is always quick to take away someone else's job.
The last thing we need is to fire the head coach. With that goes the entire staff. And the entire program starts all over again.
High school coaches want to see continuity when schools come to recruit. They'll say, "What, all new Illinois guys again?"
And what does that buy us with our narrative, our reputation? Always firing after 4 years?
Have we forgotten that we deliberately chose to rebuild a program from scratch?
In Lovie's first year, he had 24 seniors. How far did we get that season?
We lost 2 games we should have won last year. However, we cannot forgive getting blown out of the stadium in others.
Lovie is a proud man and our athletic director is one smart dude. Do you think they say in weekly meetings, "Let's do our best to be mediocre the next game."?

There is much truth in what you say. On the other hand, Lovie has had almost complete turnover in his staff in the very short time that he has been here. The high school coaches haven't seen any sort of continuity from this staff at this point.

 

[oldschool51]

Coach Smith will be here in 2020 even if he wins 5 games this year, this is all about nothing because this team will win 7 plus games in 2019. K Tate will be a big big big reason yes i think he will be an Illini

 

[LHIllinis]

I know he played....as a true freshman. He should be much improved.
My "enter" was referring to two players "stepping up", not two players seeing the field for the first time

Don't you know. Players play all four years the same and never improve. That is why we give up on players after year one and MJ will never be a good QB.

 

[Illinir1]

I'm sorry, but 6-6 would not warrant a bump of any size, nor any promises. He is already making more than James Franklin, Kirk Ferentz and Mark Dantonio.

Agree. Give Lovie a good bump when he is competing with/beating these coaches teams and/or equals their season records. Lovie has been very well paid for what he has delivered to date.