#FreeTevian

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#26
Winged Warrior
I am all for playing Tevian and the freshman, not so much because we know he is so good, but mainly for the reason that we have not seen what he can and cannot do. But if he was suspended for disciplinary reasons, he has to serve his suspension and fix those personal issues whatever those are. There is no basis for really evaluating that suspension and coming to a judgment that it is too harsh. Especially considering that the University has been traditionally very lenient on their disciplinary actions (Luther, Jereme, Darius, etc.) and I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden we became tougher than anyone else.

I think people are jumping into conclusions on what has really happened, but general statements like "it is good for college kids to be experimenting with drugs" are way over the top and I personally disagree with.
#freeObelixfromrecruitingtalk

 
#27
There's a public DIA rule that states a common reason a student would be suspended 8 games. We are one day out from the 8th game of Tev's suspension. If he doesn't play at NW, then either something else has gone terribly wrong, or we should all raise holy. Until then, what are we doing? What's more concerning to me is the idea of putting so much hope in an 18-19 year old who failed not one, but two drug tests, full well knowing it would cost him a quarter of his season. Again, we do not and will not know if that's what happened, but it's worth thinking about. People are free to blithely prattle on about how all kids make dumb mistakes, but if all this is true, it's not one dumb mistake, it's two. Two dumb mistakes that happened in less than six months on campus. Two dumb mistakes that were caught (who knows how many other dumb mistakes weren't). Two dumb mistakes that ABSOLUTELY can be the sign of a larger problem, especially if they are happening shortly after a big change in your life (for example, living away from home for the first time). Further, we don't know what drugs they may have been (some mistakes are more concerning than others).

Have numerous other athletes in the past been given lighter punishments for committing worse crimes? Yes, we all know and can list examples. But again, those punishments were handed down at the coaching staff level, and this punishment (if it is drugs) comes from the DIA. And the biggest difference worth noting between theft and multiple drug test failures is the repeat nature of the latter offense. You can arguably treat the theft (or assault if I'm remember Black's situation correctly) as a one time stupid decision unlikely to be repeated. Do that twice and you'll be off the team full stop, see Darius Paul (I'm happy to be corrected on this if someone knows of a similarly serious offense that was committed by a player twice without them being kicked off the team). Repeat drug test failures can't reasonably be hand waived away as a one time dumb decision. It's a strong sign of a pattern, and needs to be taken seriously to help the kids. I'm sure many students today, and many people on this board, would have failed multiple drug tests in college if those happened. But these kids have more on the line, and are, for better or worse, held to a higher standard.
 
#28
There's a public DIA rule that states a common reason a student would be suspended 8 games. We are one day out from the 8th game of Tev's suspension. If he doesn't play at NW, then either something else has gone terribly wrong, or we should all raise holy ****. Until then, what are we doing? What's more concerning to me is the idea of putting so much hope in an 18-19 year old who failed not one, but two drug tests, full well knowing it would cost him a quarter of his season. Again, we do not and will not know if that's what happened, but it's worth thinking about. People are free to blithely prattle on about how all kids make dumb mistakes, but if all this is true, it's not one dumb mistake, it's two. Two dumb mistakes that happened in less than six months on campus. Two dumb mistakes that were caught (who knows how many other dumb mistakes weren't). Two dumb mistakes that ABSOLUTELY can be the sign of a larger problem, especially if they are happening shortly after a big change in your life (for example, living away from home for the first time). Further, we don't know what drugs they may have been (some mistakes are more concerning than others).

Have numerous other athletes in the past been given lighter punishments for committing worse crimes? Yes, we all know and can list examples. But again, those punishments were handed down at the coaching staff level, and this punishment (if it is drugs) comes from the DIA. And the biggest difference worth noting between theft and multiple drug test failures is the repeat nature of the latter offense. You can arguably treat the theft (or assault if I'm remember Black's situation correctly) as a one time stupid decision unlikely to be repeated. Do that twice and you'll be off the team full stop, see Darius Paul (I'm happy to be corrected on this if someone knows of a similarly serious offense that was committed by a player twice without them being kicked off the team). Repeat drug test failures can't reasonably be hand waived away as a one time dumb decision. It's a strong sign of a pattern, and needs to be taken seriously to help the kids. I'm sure many students today, and many people on this board, would have failed multiple drug tests in college if those happened. But these kids have more on the line, and are, for better or worse, held to a higher standard.
If you are going to hold your athletes accountable, please also hold your general student population to the same standards. 80% of my dorm smoked weed when I went to U of I. If athletes had been tested then like they are now, many of us would have failed drug tests just from walking down the halls.
 
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#29
If you are going to hold your athletes accountable, please also hold your general student population to the same standards. 80% of my dorm smoked weed when I went to U of I. If athletes had been tested then like they are now, many of us would have failed drug tests just from walking down the halls.
The NCAA requires drug testing of athletes, not of students. Why do you want to drug test students?
 
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#30
You remember right! So it's the position of twinky and illini80 that we need to DOUBLE that punishment for this? This gets even more ridiculous assuming that the drug in question is marijuana, which will almost certainly be legal in Illinois by this time next year.
Sometimes you just gotta blow that chit out!!!
 
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#31
We have to assume that the punishment fits the crime. We could use the help and see what he can do
sooner rather later. I hope its about over. Oh, and if he's the only kid on the team smoking pot, we've
got a pretty straight-laced group.
 
#32
I'm pretty sure that the 25% rule is for a second failed drug test fwiw. So Tevian hasn't even been on campus 1 year, and has failed 2 drug tests, and you think that the punishment is too harsh? And you think experimentation with drugs is a good thing? You guys are off of your rockers.
Alright Richard Nixon, first off, the person reflexively defending the suspension based on "facts" that are entirely unsubstantiated at this point is, in fact, off their rocker.

Also, if the suspension is indeed due to cannabis then, like MadSeason said, it's time to get with the times. The stuff is legal in Tevian's home state after all! Whether or not you personally believe experimenting with drugs is good or bad doesn't matter. The punishment should fit the crime, and there's no fitting argument that consuming cannabis is worse than breaking and entering, pulling a knife on someone, domestic battery, etc.

Get off my lawn (which, in this case, is a greenhouse full of marijuana).
 
#33
If you are going to hold your athletes accountable, please also hold your general student population to the same standards. 80% of my dorm smoked weed when I went to U of I. If athletes had been tested then like they are now, many of us would have failed drug tests just from walking down the halls.
They do hold the general population to the same standards. But student-athletes get extra benefits and full scholarships, which comes with requirements and responsibilities imposed by the NCAA and the AD in order to maintain those benefits and represent the University in athletic competition. The same benefits that students have, Tevian has, after the offense (whatever that was). It is the "extra" benefit of representing the University in athletic competition (which regular students don't have) that was taken away. If a student misses practices, sure there will be consequences with respect to participation and representation of UI in athletic competition.

It is the same as a student becoming academically ineligible. Same rules apply to all students, including student-athletes. But if a student-athlete does not maintain academic standards, the "extra" benefits and participation in athletics is taken away.
 
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#35
The bottom line is that people do not know WHAT happened, nor do they know the circumstances of what happened and subsequent discussions with the student-athlete. So I am not sure how anyone can evaluate whether the penalty is harsh or lenient.
 
#36
Not to hijack the thread, but should we be considering using the forthcoming legalization of marijuana as a recruiting tool? Desperate times call for desperate measures!
 
#37
The stuff is legal in Tevian's home state after all!
Pot is not legal for Tevian anywhere in America (at least without a prescription).

Whether or not you personally believe experimenting with drugs is good or bad doesn't matter.
Irony.

The punishment should fit the crime, and there's no fitting argument that consuming cannabis is worse than breaking and entering, pulling a knife on someone, domestic battery, etc.
Breaking and entering once - 4 games suspension for Luther; twice? - almost certainly off the team
Pulling a knife once - 6(?) games for Leron; twice? - almost certainly off the team
Domestic battery once - kicked of team for Kendrick
Fail one drug test - talking to from coach; twice - 8 games

In what world is failing a drug test being treated as WORSE than any of the other things you mentioned? The suspensions for the other behaviors are objectively worse.
 
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#38
#39
That will have zero effect on participation in NCAA competition and use of substances. The NCAA has explicit lists of banned substances that includes many drugs including marijuana regardless of what individual states do.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018-19NCAA_Banned_Drugs_20180608.pdf
Yes, but individual schools need not abide by any particular NCAA policy, or indeed any policy at all.

What the NCAA requires is that IF the school maintains a drug testing policy that it follow such policy.

The U of I's policy should be to test for hard drugs only and leave any punishment to the coach's discretion. The primary purpose should be making sure we don't have a young athlete in the school's care going Len Bias on us, not some War on Drugs nostalgia disciplinary regime.
 
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#41
New York
1. Marijuana laws and regressive rules and penalties about marijuana use are silly
2. Speculation about what Tevian did is dumb. But if Tevian broke a known rule for the second time where the penalty was known, that’s on him, notwithstanding point #1. DIA should change the rule, but he’s got to abide by the rules in place. Not that hard.
3. I don’t think Tevian is going to be that good this year or make much of a difference the rest of the way. But you never know and it pays to get him real experience. He is athletic and we definitely want to keep him going forward, given how bare the cupboard is and his tie to January, who is also important because cupboard is bare.

Illinois has been a total s-show this year. Let’s hope for improvement the rest of the way and some good experience for the young guys.
 
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#44
In what world is failing a drug test being treated as WORSE than any of the other things you mentioned? The suspensions for the other behaviors are objectively worse.
Of course it's not legal for him specifically. I never said that. But neither is alcohol, and using that substance will net you a much lighter punishment (if any at all) than say, cocaine or heroin. They're different. You honestly think being caught with a six-pack at age 19 is just as bad as being caught with a comparable amount of a hard drug?

I understand that he (presumably) broke the rules twice, and hence the longer suspension. But again, you thinking smoking weed twice is worse than pulling a knife on someone?? Than breaking and entering into someone's home?? Or look at it another way: if players have two nights of drinking, should they be suspended for 1/4 of the college season?

Breaking a rule twice should be punished more than breaking it once. But Illinois is on the precipice of legalizing recreational marijuana (following 10 other states) and already has legalized medical marijuana, yet the DIA is treating it like it's something so much worse. That needs to change.
 
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#45
That is absolutely not true. The penalties actually for getting caught by NCAA in one of their drug tests (which they conduct in all Division I and II programs) are much stiffer than the University imposed tests, which are in addition to the NCAA tests.
They only test year-round for steroids. NCAA testing for drugs is only at NCAA-sanctioned championship events, meaning only the tournament for basketball and literally never for football.

No Illini athlete has been tested by the NCAA for drugs since 2013 :(
 
#47
You are wrong again, come on read, I gave you the rules and facts by the NCAA. There is different testing and penalties for PEDs versus street drug class, which is what I quoted for you already. Just that the PED penalties are a lot stricter.
From your link

What does the NCAA test for during the year-round program?

  • Anabolic Agents
  • Diuretics and other masking agents
  • Peptide Hormones and Analogues
  • Anti-Estrogens
  • Beta-2 Agonists
As opposed to

When is drug testing conducted at the championship?

Drug testing can occur at any phase of an NCAA championship (e.g., first round, second round, quarterfinals, semi-finals or finals).

Drug testing can occur more than once at any championship (e.g., first round and finals).

What drugs does the NCAA ban?

The NCAA banned drug classes are:

  • Stimulants
  • Anabolic Agents
  • Alcohol and Beta Blockers (banned for rifle only)
  • Diuretics and other masking agents
  • Street Drugs
  • Peptide Hormones and Analogues
  • Anti-Estrogens
  • Beta-2 Agonists
And, as I said

What is the penalty for failing a school-administered drug test?

Each NCAA member school is responsible for determining whether to establish an institutional drug-testing program, at which time the school would be responsible for determining applicable penalties. If a testing program is established, though, the school is obligated to enforce the penalties. Failure to do so can lead to NCAA sanctions.
 
#48
I'm pretty sure that the 25% rule is for a second failed drug test fwiw. So Tevian hasn't even been on campus 1 year, and has failed 2 drug tests, and you think that the punishment is too harsh? And you think experimentation with drugs is a good thing? You guys are off of your rockers.
This. Failing 2 drug tests and you've been on campus for like 7 months? That is a massive FU to the program to get caught again while on suspenstion for the first. I'd be ok with this even if it wasn't mandated.

And why are ppl bringing luther head into this? That suspension was the epitome of too soft. Not only that, it's a completely different coach, AD, leadership, etc, so it's not even close to an apples to apples comparison.
 
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#49
The Transfer Portal
I understand that he (presumably) broke the rules twice, and hence the longer suspension. But again, you thinking smoking weed twice is worse than pulling a knife on someone?? Than breaking and entering into someone's home?? Or look at it another way: if players have two nights of drinking, should they be suspended for 1/4 of the college season?
Yeah, the bolded part doesn't compute for me, either. You don't get to just magically create equality between (assumption alert!) a college kid smoking weed and an actual violent crime by saying "but this was the second time!" C'mon.
 
#50
Yeah, the bolded part doesn't compute for me, either. You don't get to just magically create equality between (assumption alert!) a college kid smoking weed and an actual violent crime by saying "but this was the second time!" C'mon.
agree with this but I would argue that the other suspensions were awfully light, not that this current one is.
 
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