#FreeTevian

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#51
Yeah, the bolded part doesn't compute for me, either. You don't get to just magically create equality between (assumption alert!) a college kid smoking weed and an actual violent crime by saying "but this was the second time!" C'mon.
While we do not know what happened to Tevian and under what circumstances (I personally feel it is neither fair to the student-athlete nor UI to speculate of drug use or other offense), on the general discussion, I still feel it is apple and oranges. On the cases that we do know of other legal implications, it may have been the case that the penalties were too lenient rather than drug policy being too strict (yet much softer than NCAA). In the case of Black, for example, I thought the penalty was too lenient. I thought the same for Darius Paul and the decision to welcome him back.

Similarly. while our own implemented drug program may be softer than the NCAA (for obvious reasons), I have not seen much evidence that the UI drug program is stricter than the majority of other B1G programs. Heck, I have not even seen a link that details UI's own drug testing program for student-athletes, frequency, penalties, education, etc., let alone compare it to our peers. Where is it?
 
#52
Of course it's not legal for him specifically. I never said that. But neither is alcohol, and using that substance will net you a much lighter punishment (if any at all) than say, cocaine or heroin. They're different. You honestly think being caught with a six-pack at age 19 is just as bad as being caught with a comparable amount of a hard drug?

I understand that he (presumably) broke the rules twice, and hence the longer suspension. But again, you thinking smoking weed twice is worse than pulling a knife on someone?? Than breaking and entering into someone's home?? Or look at it another way: if players have two nights of drinking, should they be suspended for 1/4 of the college season?

Breaking a rule twice should be punished more than breaking it once. But Illinois is on the precipice of legalizing recreational marijuana (following 10 other states) and already has legalized medical marijuana, yet the DIA is treating it like it's something so much worse. That needs to change.
Again, doing something that's objectively worse once can be looked at as an isolated poor decision. The punishment is surely upped here not because smoking pot twice is worse that assault, it's likely increased to protect the kids. Drug abuse is a thing. Doing drugs twice doesn't mean you'll abuse them, but college athletes have pretty dang strong incentives NOT TO DO DRUGS. If a student does get caught anyway, that's a bit of a concern. If the student fails the test twice, including at least once during the season, I can understand why the university is concerned. When all the incentives are aligned to keep you away from drugs, you get caught once and have your hand slapped, and you STILL continue, understanding the consequences, it probably is a red flag that needs to be addressed seriously.
 
#53
Washington State
Marijuana stays in the system a looong time, from what I understand. Since we're all in the speculating mood, isn't it conceivably possible to smoke a Bob Marley sized doobey one day, fail a drug test, and still have it in your system the next time it's time to fill the ole Dixie cup?
 
#54
So, Black Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" came on the radio as I was driving home after engaging in this conversation. I found that funny. Great song too. :rock:

"When is drug testing conducted at the championship?" does not mean that that drug testing is only conducted during championships nor does it mean that it is not conducted at other times and on campus as the NCAA explicitly states above. Come on, this is reading comprehension 101.
Indeed so. And it also explicitly states what the NCAA tests for outside of championship events:

What does the NCAA test for during the year-round program?

  • Anabolic Agents
  • Diuretics and other masking agents
  • Peptide Hormones and Analogues
  • Anti-Estrogens
  • Beta-2 Agonists
Performance-enhancing drugs, in other words. Not "street drugs" or "stimulants" which are listed under the championship testing regime.

In addition to the NCAA drug tests, institutions (like UI and every B1G school) conduct their own test and report the results and penalties to NCAA. Of course the institutions have an incentive for implementing their own drug testing program because they can maintain a regular testing schedule and report results and penalties, which are significant less than the NCAA tests. Losing 25% of a season is a lot less than being banned for 365 days, so the schools have an incentive in order to avoid the NCAA penalties, which are much stricter.
That's definitely one incentive to *test* (as opposed to *punish*), though championship event tests are a heck of a lot easier to just evade as they aren't really "random" and are necessarily infrequent.

Testing is a good idea just to have awareness of what's going on with your players and to make sure there's a warning if there are any drug abuse problems to be concerned about. And as you said, it's a good idea to know who your problem children are in the event of NCAA testing at a championship event. But inflexible and draconian punishment for recreational drugs in the absence of any mandate from above is a stupid self-own and should be discarded.
 
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#55
San Clemente, CA
I live in CA where pot is legal but individual companies have the right to randomly drug test. I recently retired from a company who sells to refineries and is also regulated by the transportation industry. We had zero tolerance on random drug testing for alcohol, cocaine etc. and pot. One failed test and your out. A service or sales person can’t drive with a DUI and therefore can’t perform his job. Also relevant is that cocaine disappears from urine and blood almost immediately but pot sticks around much longer. Sometimes 60-90 days. Just some perspective on the issue.
 
#56
Yeah, the bolded part doesn't compute for me, either. You don't get to just magically create equality between (assumption alert!) a college kid smoking weed and an actual violent crime by saying "but this was the second time!" C'mon.
It's not about being worse. It's about being concerning in a different, but very real way. Again, it's about a pattern vs one time aberrant behavior.
 
#57
Marijuana stays in the system a looong time, from what I understand. Since we're all in the speculating mood, isn't it conceivably possible to smoke a Bob Marley sized doobey one day, fail a drug test, and still have it in your system the next time it's time to fill the ole Dixie cup?
If you have a poorly designed testing system, then yes. I'd be shocked if the university's testing did not account for this.
 
#61
Washington State
A friend worked at the Smoke Shack on Green Street for several years in the early-mid 2000s, and would give me regular updates on which Illinis football and basketball players were in and what type of paraphernalia they were purchasing. Can I claim former insider status? At least for this thread?
 
#62
You remember right! So it's the position of twinky and illini80 that we need to DOUBLE that punishment for this? This gets even more ridiculous assuming that the drug in question is marijuana, which will almost certainly be legal in Illinois by this time next year.
Slow your role dude. I didn’t say that at all. I commented on the statement that it was reported to be his second offense.


Surprisingly I have absolutely no say in punishment doled out by the DIA.
 
#63
Do you guys remember how long we suspended Luther Head and company for breaking into an apartment? I'll hang up and wait for your answer.
I believe he was suspended for 4 games. Then Luther had some traffic violations, which left to Weber telling Luther that he needed to be a better person. Maybe got one more game for that. Bottom line, #freeTevian.
 
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#64
The NCAA requires drug testing of athletes, not of students. Why do you want to drug test students?
My biggest point is that so many here are looking down on Tevian and demand that he act like they desire he should which seems to be how they perceive all the other students are acting. My other point is that I have known track athletes that failed drug tests because they were standing outside of a door while weed was being smoked inside. Not saying that this is what Tevian was doing but, the rush to place one's personal biases is appalling without anyone having any idea as to what happened.
 
#66
Winged Warrior
People can justify literally any behavior if it gets them what they want. SMH.

The kid messed up. He's paying the price. It doesn't matter what you think of it. He's going to be better for it, or not.

#freetevianafterheserveshispenaltyforbreakingtherulesbecauselifeismoreimportantthanthesestupidbasketballgames
 
#67
Marijuana stays in the system a looong time, from what I understand. Since we're all in the speculating mood, isn't it conceivably possible to smoke a Bob Marley sized doobey one day, fail a drug test, and still have it in your system the next time it's time to fill the ole Dixie cup?
Marijuana in the system sounds more complicated than BU's offense.
 
#69
This forum has a catchy title..."Free Tevian". But has spun out of control into a Social Society discussion/debate.

I would rather just focus on getting him back and get the other young guys alot of tick. Screw the record and Thrashings....suffer and learn as Freshman and excel as upperclassmen.
 
#72
A friend worked at the Smoke Shack on Green Street for several years in the early-mid 2000s, and would give me regular updates on which Illinis football and basketball players were in and what type of paraphernalia they were purchasing. Can I claim former insider status? At least for this thread?
Only if you give us a hilarious anecdote or two
 
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#74
Let's hope that Tevian has positive minutes in 2019 and does not transfer. In our current state, we cannot have one of the players that we projected with a bight future leave the program.
 
Likes: deucemu
#75
If it’s the 2nd failed drug test, then it’s more about him not following the rules. I’m sure the first failed one brought him into the light in a poor way. The coaches probably told him to shape up, get it together, and not smoke pot because we need him AND it’s against the rules. Then, he went and did it anyway.

That shows a lack of respect for authority and rules (regardless of if the 2nd offense punishment is too harsh for some of you) and a lack of respect for his coaches and teammates who need him on the floor.

I’m surprised that winning basketball is more important to some of you than shaping a young man into a good decision maker and team player.

Having said that, none of know the true nature of the suspension. Maybe he showed up high at practice? Maybe it’s actually not drug related but a more serious offense? Maybe it truly is a punishment that is way worse than the crime? We don’t know, so maybe #free Tevian is completely inappropriate or maybe it’s a-okay.

But if the rumors are true and he did blatantly disregard the 1st warning/punishment/“talking-to” and did the same offense again, I don’t care about 8 games, he needs a course correction in regards to respect/following rules/listening to coaches. Maybe the DIA and coaches think a suspension is the best way to get his attention.
You ever break a stupid rule twice? A lot of people think this is a stupid rule to begin with, and not worthy of the hammer coming down on the second offense. I think most people who don't like this rule would agree that a player that flaunts minor/stupid rules has to go, if they establish a pattern of putting themself before anyone else.
 
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