G League to offer $125K to elite prospects as alternative to one-and-done route

#26      
I will disagree with the last part in that the ABA, USFL were in direct competition with the NBA and the NFL. The G League isn't trying to compete with the NBA or the NCAA for fans. Minor Leagues franchises that are successful are a source of entertainment that is affordable for the community they are in, while the parent team is only concerned with the development of players. This is also why the G League teams are close to home to the NBA squad. It helps with players on 2-way deals moving up and down, but also for fans that can't afford to take a family of 5 to a Bulls game, go out to the burbs and watch the Windy City Bulls game. The only direct competition the G league will have with college ball is the select top recruits that will consider money over school for a 1 year window.
I agree with this, for sure. This will wind up being a different product than NCAA basketball, and I doubt that we'll see too many G League teams locate in strong college markets. The only team with direct P5 NCAA competition at the moment is Greensboro, though you could make the argument that Fort Wayne and Des Moines are pretty close. (The teams located in Chicago, DC, and the Inland Empire have such a large population base that there should be room for both college and pro teams to coexist.)

The single-team alignments and co-location with NBA franchises is one tipping point. If they really have any interest in making the G League a thing, I think the next move would be to have the bulk of the league's players be either actual prospects (i.e. draftees who could play for Europe-caliber money for a few years) or guys on two-way deals to make those links to the NBA teams a bit stronger. It's unclear as to whether that's of any interest to the NBA, though.

Even if they do all of that, I'm not sure it makes a dent in the college game. You'd probably only be looking at 10-20 guys skipping the NCAA per year, if that. It's not quite accurate to say that the NCAA and NBA/G League are two separate products, but that isn't far from the truth.
 
#27      
It would be interesting to know how many one and dones attend a class after basketball season is over.
 
#28      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
It would be interesting to know how many one and dones attend a class after basketball season is over.
After first semester grades are in. Do they even need to walk into class sencond semester?
 
#29      

I Bomb

Stylin' and Profilin'
Alright, pay the top recruits every year to play in the g-league. So then what stops university programs/shoe companies from just paying the next tier of recruits to go to certain schools?
 
#30      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
That is a wonderful development. This whole situation is an economic one. There was a massive economic incentive to cheat. If there is now a completely legal means of obtaining the same economic benefits, it will cut down on the illicit behavior.
It really could be wonderful but part of me thinks it might trigger a bidding war between the G league and Kansas, Lville, UNC and the other slimy creepy programs that taint the college scene now...
Some of the slimy creepy programs already have topped the $ 125,000 threshold so it might not be the answer....JMHO
 
#31      

Deleted member 29907

D
Guest
Alright, pay the top recruits every year to play in the g-league. So then what stops university programs/shoe companies from just paying the next tier of recruits to go to certain schools?
The question is - is it the success of the school they are concerned with or the individual player? Do kids buy shoes because Duke wears them or because their favorite player wears them?
 
#32      

Deleted member 643761

D
Guest
Long term consequences for G League stuff is that players may check out in high school in terms of grades. If you're a high flying junior and you figure you're going to skip college, you might not worry about the grades and test scores and then your die is cast in terms of your future.
 
#33      
I will disagree with the last part in that the ABA, USFL were in direct competition with the NBA and the NFL. The G League isn't trying to compete with the NBA or the NCAA for fans. Minor Leagues franchises that are successful are a source of entertainment that is affordable for the community they are in, while the parent team is only concerned with the development of players. This is also why the G League teams are close to home to the NBA squad. It helps with players on 2-way deals moving up and down, but also for fans that can't afford to take a family of 5 to a Bulls game, go out to the burbs and watch the Windy City Bulls game. The only direct competition the G league will have with college ball is the select top recruits that will consider money over school for a 1 year window.

The ABA and USFL both tried to attract fans at a lower price point, plus family entertainment and several gimmicks involving players and fans (including the dunk contests, family nights, etc.) At the end they all failed. Not because the price point, but lack of audience. If you will not compete/steal audience from the NBA or NCAA, you assume that there is an untapped audience there that will be attracted to G-league because of just a lower price point. I do not believe there is such audience.

Right now, some G-league teams are pretty much giving tickets away and still can't get the market pull. A few 5* players will not attract an audience, most would not even know of those 5* players. Most of their fans who know of their existence are college fans who follow recruiting. The occasional super phenom (like Lebron) who will stay there for just a year will not change much. JMO.
 
#34      
G league payouts probably best option. G league is NBA subsidized and can take the top 10 types who are kne and done types.

Don't think shoe companies will go after top 15-30 types. Then non-bluelood schools can cheat on a more even playing field like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC. The NCAA can start punishing the non-P5 schools.
 
#35      
The question is - is it the success of the school they are concerned with or the individual player? Do kids buy shoes because Duke wears them or because their favorite player wears them?

Kids buy shoes because NBA superstars wear them. They do not buy shoes because some highly ranked HS kid wears them, whether they go to Duke, another school or elsewhere. The shoe companies are just placing bets on the future value of some kids, not the short term impact that is non-existent.

If shoe companies wanted to pay kids, sign them for their companies and go to G-league, they would do it right now, and there would be absolutely nothing illegal about it. The reason they don't and the reason they pay them to go to college is because college gives those kids the best visibility, exposure, and market value. It is the best value for their investment, that is what both shoe companies and highly ranked HS players want.

All this fuzz about Tugs Bowen and now nobody, I mean nobody, really cares now. Without the exposure of college, his value decreased tremendously, whether now in G-league or elsewhere (Australia).
 
#36      
Kids buy shoes because NBA superstars wear them. They do not buy shoes because some highly ranked HS kid wears them, whether they go to Duke, another school or elsewhere. The shoe companies are just placing bets on the future value of some kids, not the short term impact that is non-existent.

You should watch the doc Student Athlete. A Nike rep says (without giving his identity) and quantifies much to the contrary.
 
#37      
Very small, G-league has no audience and little exposure. The ones who may be tempted are the ones who absolutely can't tolerate college, even for one year.
I think the audience and thus exposure would change considerably if all the best young players were taking that opportunity to play for a year and make $125K
 
#38      
I think the audience and thus exposure would change considerably if all the best young players were taking that opportunity to play for a year and make $125K

I think you are wrong on that, not only the number of best young players to go to G-league would be very small, but I doubt fans would even be familiar with names like Isaiah Stewart and Cole Anthony if it was not for college recruiting. Most of these HS highly ranked players are just known to a very small set of fans who follow college recruiting and that set is even smaller unless your college is recruiting them. There are some very good former college players in the G-League already, better (at the current stage) than most of the highly ranked players and better known as well, yet their appeal is almost non-existent once they leave college.
 
#39      
I think the audience and thus exposure would change considerably if all the best young players were taking that opportunity to play for a year and make $125K

Disargree with this...in this day and age there are simply to many other options for entertainment $$$ for the general public. If a Cole Anthony goes G-League as an example, maybe an initial PR push with name/association etc might garner some public interest, however, long term, his play and others of the same ilk won't matter.

There is a reason sports saturation in some cases causes disinterest from the public. The NBA season is long, the college season is long, and another form of basketball on any level, just doesn't bode well for the $$$ stream that one would hope for.

Players in general would get the experience, some $$$, avoid college if they so choose, but public interest would not sway in an increase one way or another. The casual to even die-hard fan of basketball simply doesn't hold the same regard for a high school name, as they do for even a 2nd rate NBA player.
 
#40      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
I think we need to relax on the G-League recruiting stuff as far as a major change to college hoops. Also, need to look at in terms of the world we live in now through 2022. That is how long the one and done rule will last. This will be the only time frame high school kids choose to go into the G-League, and my guess is very few will do that. Once the one and done rule goes away, top high school kids will go into the draft. If the pay becomes good enough, the G-League may be a better option compared to Europe for players out of eligibility, or school isnt a good fit. I do think the G-League will continue to grow based on the popularity in pro ball. It will follow the paths of minor league baseball and hockey.
 
#41      
I think you are wrong on that, not only the number of best young players to go to G-league would be very small, but I doubt fans would even be familiar with names like Isaiah Stewart and Cole Anthony if it was not for college recruiting. Most of these HS highly ranked players are just known to a very small set of fans who follow college recruiting and that set is even smaller unless your college is recruiting them. There are some very good former college players in the G-League already, better (at the current stage) than most of the highly ranked players and better known as well, yet their appeal is almost non-existent once they leave college.

Disagree. And I know I'm citing outliers here, but LaMelo Ball and Zion Williamson would say otherwise. I think you are viewing this from the vantage point of an older bball fan rather than those of the younger generation, specifically high school and below. That audience follows elite high school players on social media and YouTube and doesn't necessarily do so because of some allegiance to their college of choice and its potential for actually landing that player. These kids have tens of thousands (James Wiseman, Isaiah Stewart, Tyrese Maxey, etc.) and hundreds of thousands (Cole Anthony, Jalen Green) of followers on platforms like Instagram because younger age groups can relate to them and feel as is they are following along with a peer as they work towards stardom and the NBA (heck, some even have fan pages with a good amount of followers). Now, I don't think going the G-League route will become a major trend because there is still significant, engrained marketing and exposure that comes with participating in a league that has all the other star players working towards the NBA (as Woj tweeted). But the claim that these players only have a following because they're heading to college for a year is rubbish. These players (i.e. top 10) have a following because there is a high likelihood that they're heading to the NBA immediately after that holding year, or because they produce highlights that show up all over ballislife, etc.

The relationship between social media and basketball is so much different than pretty much every other sport, in part because the highlights are perfect for short clips. And this really has changed the way young elite players can gain exposure and build a brand while still in high school. It's a whole different world from that of baseball and hockey, and even college basketball from the NBA (the average age of a college bball fan is 52, whereas its 42 for the average NBA fan). College helps in gaining exposure, no doubt about that, but I do think the ability to earn a salary of 125k AND immediately begin endorsement deals that can stretch into the millions will entice at least some players to make the leap. But I guess this also depends on how the FBI investigation will impact the funneling of money, too.
 
#42      
Alright, pay the top recruits every year to play in the g-league. So then what stops university programs/shoe companies from just paying the next tier of recruits to go to certain schools?

There is more of a difference between the 10th ranked recruit and the 30th than there is between 30 and 60. Makes it worth doing whatever necessary to get the number 10 guy.
 
#43      
These kids have tens of thousands (James Wiseman, Isaiah Stewart, Tyrese Maxey, etc.) and hundreds of thousands (Cole Anthony, Jalen Green) of followers on platforms like Instagram because younger age groups can relate to them and feel as is they are following along with a peer as they work towards stardom and the NBA (heck, some even have fan pages with a good amount of followers).

Yes, but a lot of those followers are motivated by college recruiting and will not convert to ticket holders in the G-leagues. Look at Tugs Bowen, a lot of followers and fan interest while a recruit in HS, really non-existent interest since then, other than following his FBI case. If you ask the average basketball fan, even avid fans, to name the top 2020 HS recruits, I doubt anyone would come up with names like Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Anthony Edwards, Scottie Barnes, and Jalen Johnson. And unless for college recruiting these names would remain unknown, definitely would not draw crowds in G-league.
 
#44      
Yes, but a lot of those followers are motivated by college recruiting and will not convert to ticket holders in the G-leagues. Look at Tugs Bowen, a lot of followers and fan interest while a recruit in HS, really non-existent interest since then, other than following his FBI case. If you ask the average basketball fan, even avid fans, to name the top 2020 HS recruits, I doubt anyone would come up with names like Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Anthony Edwards, Scottie Barnes, and Jalen Johnson. And unless for college recruiting these names would remain unknown, definitely would not draw crowds in G-league.

In all due respect, you're showing your age again. Thanks to good ole snapchat and IG, plenty of players (220 and younger) are getting a whole new level of exposure these days. Crazy thing is, a lot of them aren't super highly touted players, some of which are too young to be properly ranked.
 
#45      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
Yes, but a lot of those followers are motivated by college recruiting and will not convert to ticket holders in the G-leagues. Look at Tugs Bowen, a lot of followers and fan interest while a recruit in HS, really non-existent interest since then, other than following his FBI case. If you ask the average basketball fan, even avid fans, to name the top 2020 HS recruits, I doubt anyone would come up with names like Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Anthony Edwards, Scottie Barnes, and Jalen Johnson. And unless for college recruiting these names would remain unknown, definitely would not draw crowds in G-league.
I respect a lot of the stuff you post on here in regards to basketball, but I don't think you could be more off on what you think the G-League needs or won't be able to attain in regards to a fan base. You are correct that they won't take away college basketball diehards and convert them into die-hard fans of a G-League team. They don't need to. That's because minor league teams don't have fans like that. I spent 2 years working in the front office of a minor league baseball team. The business isn't set up to be dependant on die-hard fans that attach themselves to pro or college teams. They attract families that can't afford to take 3 kids to an NBA game, local business and young professionals looking for a fun night out locally because of some promotion or sponsorship deal with the team/game, and dudes on a budget showing up for $1 beer night. All they are looking to do right now is take advantage of the current market that has pro ball as popular as ever, with more people going to games and watching on tv than ever before, and a college basketball investigation that has some kids looking for money until the one and done deal expires in 2022. All the G-League needs to do is market they have some of next years possible 1st round picks playing today, and guys with time on NBA rosters playing. It's no different than minor league hockey or AA baseball.
 
#46      
plenty of players (220 and younger)

Pretty much the entire population :)

No offense taken, I may be older than many but I am still closer to the game and players than the average fan.

The question is not whether there are players 22 or younger with followers, there are plenty of those especially getting tremendous exposure, national publicity, and visibility due to college basketball and college recruiting. Most college players are 22 and younger. College basketball is a major industry with great momentum and provides a tremendous audience and benefits to these young players.

The question is whether there are many players (18-19 and younger) that will give G-league a tremendous ticket increase and a national audience without going to college. That, I seriously doubt. But we will see when the rule is implemented.
 
#47      
Yes, but a lot of those followers are motivated by college recruiting and will not convert to ticket holders in the G-leagues. Look at Tugs Bowen, a lot of followers and fan interest while a recruit in HS, really non-existent interest since then, other than following his FBI case. If you ask the average basketball fan, even avid fans, to name the top 2020 HS recruits, I doubt anyone would come up with names like Evan Mobley, Jalen Green, Anthony Edwards, Scottie Barnes, and Jalen Johnson. And unless for college recruiting these names would remain unknown, definitely would not draw crowds in G-league.

I think this kind of makes my point, which is that we're talking about separate worlds here. NBA fandom is different, demographically, than college basketball fandom. The average college basketball fan doesn't know those players, and probably still won't unless their team has a shot at landing them, but the average (young) NBA fan probably does know who the top upcoming basketball players are. I mean, Jalen Green does have 174,000 followers on Instagram, and my guess is its not a bunch of middle-aged folk hopeful that he chooses their school in 1-1.5 year(s). It's more likely the younger crowd that spends their time watching his highlight reels with titles like "Jalen Green is THE CRAZIEST 10TH GRADER YOU'VE EVER SEEN!!" Those kids may not mean butts in G-League seats (yet, at least), but they do buy shoes, and that's what matters.

If we're talking about what matters to the players, it's about getting to the NBA (to make money getting paid to play) and building a brand (to make more money from endorsements). And for every Trae Young that gets a major boost from playing in college, there's a Ben Simmons or Michael Porter Jr. that does essentially nothing to add to their brand while in college. The player that goes to the G-League, if they've built a brand in high school, can start profiting off that brand immediately. Do you think it matters to them if there's 3,000 people watching the game in Sioux Falls vs. 10,000 watching it in Chapel Hill, when they can make a 6-figure plus salary at the former but (technically...) nothing at the latter?
 
#48      
The question is whether there are many players (18-19 and younger) that will give G-league a tremendous ticket increase and a national audience without going to college. That, I seriously doubt. But we will see when the rule is implemented.
The short term answer is definitely not. Do they ever televise G league games? I've never seeked them out, so not sure. If next year 5 of the top 10 (which is an absurdly high number if you ask me, but again who knows) decide to go the G league route, I don't suspect viewership increase that much across the board, nor would attendance. Maybe I'm not a big enough sports fan, but I dont care about minor league teams, like pretty much at all. I'll look up stats and finals, but even that is maybe a monthly occurrence. I have almost no desire to see a Rockford game, or Wolves, or Kane County, but they are all within 45 mins of where I live. I guess I should add the Windy City Bulls as an even closer team, but again zero desire to see them. If the number one recruit for 2020 was playing for the WCB in a couple years, I'd also have zero interest, just because he wouldn't be on the Bulls themselves.

I guess my point is similar to whats already been laid out by others. Minor league games don't draw loyal fans, they draw local area people looking for something to do. Adding good players surely helps, but if they aren't affiliated with my pro team, why do I care? Sure, the Iowa Cubs get a lot more interesting with KB batting third, but I wouldn't even go to see guys like Schwarber or Contreras rehab, and thats basically the height of the popularity of minor league teams. Sorry for the baseball references, but it was the best analogy I could think of.
 
#49      
I respect a lot of the stuff you post on here in regards to basketball, but I don't think you could be more off on what you think the G-League needs or won't be able to attain in regards to a fan base. You are correct that they won't take away college basketball diehards and convert them into die-hard fans of a G-League team. They don't need to. That's because minor league teams don't have fans like that. I spent 2 years working in the front office of a minor league baseball team. The business isn't set up to be dependant on die-hard fans that attach themselves to pro or college teams. They attract families that can't afford to take 3 kids to an NBA game, local business and young professionals looking for a fun night out locally because of some promotion or sponsorship deal with the team/game, and dudes on a budget showing up for $1 beer night. All they are looking to do right now is take advantage of the current market that has pro ball as popular as ever, with more people going to games and watching on tv than ever before, and a college basketball investigation that has some kids looking for money until the one and done deal expires in 2022. All the G-League needs to do is market they have some of next years possible 1st round picks playing today, and guys with time on NBA rosters playing. It's no different than minor league hockey or AA baseball.

I do not know where you got "diehards" in my post since I never mentioned it. Actually, in a post very short time ago, I had stated the exact opposite. National audience, exposure, and financial viability depend less on the diehards and more on the casual fan.

There are plenty of excellent players right now in the G-league, many with more name recognition (due to college) and more refined skills (at this stage) than potential 1-n-dones. I do not think a few of those 1-n-done players will have an impact. As I mentioned in many posts already, baseball has different dynamics and tradition, there is no real college baseball momentum and market, not even close to being comparable to college basketball. So you are trying to draw parallelism in a totally different market.

Minor league baseball dominates the space below major league. College basketball dominates the space below the NBA. I do not think there is market space that can be created in between. The ABA (as mentioned in previous posts) tried to attack the same space with similar tactics that you suggest, lower price points, family nights, family involvement, and other gimmicks and participation from fans (including dunk contests, etc). And they had star players better than any HS player who most people do not know (Dr. J, George Gervin, Connie Hawkins, Artis Gilmore). At the end, the market was not there. I doubt a few 18 year old 1-n-dones will have an impact creating that market. JMO.
 
#50      

t7nich

Central IL
I think this kind of makes my point, which is that we're talking about separate worlds here. NBA fandom is different, demographically, than college basketball fandom. The average college basketball fan doesn't know those players, and probably still won't unless their team has a shot at landing them, but the average (young) NBA fan probably does know who the top upcoming basketball players are. I mean, Jalen Green does have 174,000 followers on Instagram, and my guess is its not a bunch of middle-aged folk hopeful that he chooses their school in 1-1.5 year(s). It's more likely the younger crowd that spends their time watching his highlight reels with titles like "Jalen Green is THE CRAZIEST 10TH GRADER YOU'VE EVER SEEN!!" Those kids may not mean butts in G-League seats (yet, at least), but they do buy shoes, and that's what matters.

If we're talking about what matters to the players, it's about getting to the NBA (to make money getting paid to play) and building a brand (to make more money from endorsements). And for every Trae Young that gets a major boost from playing in college, there's a Ben Simmons or Michael Porter Jr. that does essentially nothing to add to their brand while in college. The player that goes to the G-League, if they've built a brand in high school, can start profiting off that brand immediately. Do you think it matters to them if there's 3,000 people watching the game in Sioux Falls vs. 10,000 watching it in Chapel Hill, when they can make a 6-figure plus salary at the former but (technically...) nothing at the latter?

What are we arguing?