Illini Basketball 2016-2017

#551      
He still just looks a little rushed. I don't know if it's nerves, extreme desire to be successful and getting himself riled up or what. When he does break through it is gonna be fun to watch.

I'll agree he looks rushed a bit, and probably a combo of the last two options. Which is a lot better than looking rushed because the game is going too fast for you and you are trying to catch up.

For example, last night when he dove for the loose ball. He broke for the ball at the right time - he was able to see the play develop and conclude where the loose ball would be. However, the ball took a bounce that made it impossible for him to make the play and he kept "hustling" into a bad situation where he committed a foul and got his bell rung.

He's close.
 
#552      

blmillini

Bloomington, IL
He still just looks a little rushed. I don't know if it's nerves, extreme desire to be successful and getting himself riled up or what. When he does break through it is gonna be fun to watch.

I think you hit it on the head. He wants it too much. Those kind of guys are fantastic but the coaching staff has to really work to get him to calm down mentally so he can be the player he has the skill to be.
 
#553      
I'll agree he looks rushed a bit, and probably a combo of the last two options. Which is a lot better than looking rushed because the game is going too fast for you and you are trying to catch up.

For example, last night when he dove for the loose ball. He broke for the ball at the right time - he was able to see the play develop and conclude where the loose ball would be. However, the ball took a bounce that made it impossible for him to make the play and he kept "hustling" into a bad situation where he committed a foul and got his bell rung.

He's close.

With Black and then Nichols joining the active roster soon, Jordan needs to adjust quickly or he won't be getting much time. JCL, Abrams, Nichols, and Williams can all play Jordan's position.
 
#554      

IlliniDent

Chicago, IL
With Black and then Nichols joining the active roster soon, Jordan needs to adjust quickly or he won't be getting much time. JCL, Abrams, Nichols, and Williams can all play Jordan's position.

Still think it wouldve been a perfect year for him to redshirt. He is the perfect candidate for that as he is only getting stronger and the game could slow down for him without worrying about losing a year.
 
#557      
currently we are top 30 in the country in PPG and 3's per game. Defensively we are 85th in points allowed per game. Pretty good numbers so far, I think this could be our best offense we have had since Groce was hired. We are 185th in rebounds per game, but hopefully that can partially be fixed with Leron coming back and Thorne getting in shape, however Thorne and Mav have never been dominant rebounders. I really like the idea of Black and Finke playing together, both above average rebounders, athletic and could cause mismatches on offense. Still a lot of games to be played but I think people are really being nit-picky with our performance, I think we have the potential to be a legit top 20 team once things come together. :illinois::shield:
 
#558      

CAHALL15

Central Illinois
currently we are top 30 in the country in PPG and 3's per game. Defensively we are 85th in points allowed per game. Pretty good numbers so far, I think this could be our best offense we have had since Groce was hired. We are 185th in rebounds per game, but hopefully that can partially be fixed with Leron coming back and Thorne getting in shape, however Thorne and Mav have never been dominant rebounders. I really like the idea of Black and Finke playing together, both above average rebounders, athletic and could cause mismatches on offense. Still a lot of games to be played but I think people are really being nit-picky with our performance, I think we have the potential to be a legit top 20 team once things come together. :illinois::shield:
Depends on what you mean by "dominant." Big Mike averaged 8.5 rpg last year which is pretty respectable. He'll continue to improve.
 
#559      
currently we are top 30 in the country in PPG and 3's per game. Defensively we are 85th in points allowed per game. Pretty good numbers so far, I think this could be our best offense we have had since Groce was hired. We are 185th in rebounds per game, but hopefully that can partially be fixed with Leron coming back and Thorne getting in shape, however Thorne and Mav have never been dominant rebounders. I really like the idea of Black and Finke playing together, both above average rebounders, athletic and could cause mismatches on offense. Still a lot of games to be played but I think people are really being nit-picky with our performance, I think we have the potential to be a legit top 20 team once things come together. :illinois::shield:

Stats do not mean much early on, especially in the cupcake part of the schedule. Two years ago, I believe we were leading the country in scoring at this point.

This week, starting Thursday-Friday, will give us a first glimpse of where we stand as a team and next week will provide further validation. Really exciting stretch of Illini basketball!
 
#560      
This week, starting Thursday-Friday, will give us a first glimpse of where we stand as a team and next week will provide further validation. Really exciting stretch of Illini basketball!

I for one can not wait to see the West Virginia game. Good or bad outcome, I feel like I'll get answers for my questions about our team, and probably get to watch one helluva good basketball game at the same time.
 
#563      
I for one can not wait to see the West Virginia game. Good or bad outcome, I feel like I'll get answers for my questions about our team, and probably get to watch one helluva good basketball game at the same time.

Agree. Not thinking we win it, but it will be good to see us against a team that could be a top-4 seed in the dance. I'm guessing we're 8 pt dogs going in.
 
#566      

whovous

Washington, DC
I was going to ask "AP Poll for what?" as I assumed it could not have been for one of their athletic teams.
 
#567      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
Rutgers receiving a vote in the AP poll :huh:
I saw a few minutes of their game the other night. Had both 7 footers on the floor at the same time. I thought our big's moved slow....Big Bo looks fast compared to C.J. Gettys.
 
#568      
After watching three full games (including last night's loss), here's my brief take on the team:

Abrams - Looks waaaay better than I expected. I was concerned that he wouldn't be the same after the achilles tear, but he looks pretty quick and much more skilled and cerebral than he was pre-injury. His shot looks terrific (even though I'm prepared for a regression to the mean). I expect him to shoot 33-36% from 3 for the year, which is a huge improvement. Still makes some bad decisions with the ball, but I think he should be playing PG full time.

Tate - Great kid, love having him on the team. Last night I thought he played pretty well overall, despite the last few minutes of the game. He is what he is: good ball handler, good passer, good effort guy, average defender, average athlete, average size, abysmal shooter. He would be a nice piece to have off the bench. He would be a solid/average backup P5 point guard. He just, IMO, should not be starting. He should be playing 8-12 mpg. I really hope that Tracy is moving over to the 1 and JCL is joining the starting lineup pronto. Tate is not a PG you can win with.

Lucas - Haven't seen much yet, obviously. Got some good run against McKendree and looked terrific, I thought. He's quicker than I anticipated - actually looks like a shifty, athletic player. From his high school highlights and reviews, I thought he'd be an average athlete, but he looks pretty dynamic. Obviously, he's not getting it done in practice or we'd see him more. Probably behind the curve with regard to defense and understanding the system. Hopefully we see more from Te'Jon as the year progresses. I'm excited about the combination of him, Trent Frazier, and Da'Monte in years to come.

JCL - Looks totally one-dimensional so far on offense. I think we were all hoping that he would be better off the dribble this year. Maybe that's still coming. (So far, he's only shot 7 two-pointers and missed all of them; every shot he's hit has been a three and he's only gotten to the line once) I'm shocked at how relatively little he's playing. I assume he's being eased back in after the hand injury. I fully expected him to be our second best player and a no-brainer starter/30-minute guy. We need him on the floor to create spacing. Physically, he looks athletic and strong.

Hill - Up and down so far. He always looks like the best player on the floor, but the results have been mixed. He's an obvious stud, but I wish he wouldn't settle for so many pull-up jumpers. I know it's his bread and butter and he's awesome from mid-range when he's feeling it, but if a few don't go in he needs to start driving all the way to the hoop and/or posting up smaller defenders.

AJ - Finding a role as a 3-and-D guy off the bench. Still looks a little overwhelmed by the speed of the game sometimes, but my gut says he's settling in. I can envision his role as an upperclassman now: long-armed wing who can match up with shooters defensively and hit spot-up jumpers in rhythm on offense. Or at least that's the floor. Every team needs 1-2 guys like that off the bench. He could still become more than that, obviously.

DJW - Showing flashes, even though he didn't really see the court last night. Inconsistent but super talented. Jury's out on whether it will ever fully click for him, but at worst he's a versatile defender who can make the occasional 'Wow!' play as a bench contributor. Still the same high ceiling, but I feel like his floor is going up.

Finke - Mixed so far. He's averaging 12.4 ppg and 7.4 reb, but his defense has been poor, his BBIQ and passing ability haven't shown up (apparent strengths of his), and the free throw shooting is just utterly baffling. This is a kid whose main role on offense is stretching the floor, but he's shooting under 42% from the charity stripe. I expect that number to go up considerably, but his form looks awful. He gives the offense a unique dimension and is a true weapon for us, but he also has some glaring weaknesses. Guessing Leron will supplant him soon in the starting lineup, especially if Mav continues to start at C.

Leron - Just one game, but he looked pretty decent. Good energy. Hit the boards harder than his 4 rebounds would indicate. Stroke looks nice. Looks more athletic than last year (obviously due to the knee). I think he'll be a quality B1G starter from here on out.

Mav - Looked terrible last night. Otherwise, has looked pretty dang good. We know what Mav brings to the table: he's an athletically limited kid with good size, good touch on his jumper, a few post moves, and no ability to defend or rebound. He's averaging 2.4 rebounds in over 22 minutes. He's literally one of the worst rebounding 6'10 centers in America. If we had the luxury of bringing him off the bench for 12-15 mpg, he'd be a true asset. As a starter, his strengths and weaknesses probably balance out, but he doesn't give us an advantage most games against P5 competition.

Thorne, Jr - Looks sluggish and heavy. Still a huge body with some skill in the paint, but he looked quicker last year. Has never been a good defender, but at least will block a shot here and there. Much better rebounder than Mav. If he and Leron are both in, we should be able to board with just about anyone. In his present condition, he's a backup caliber player that gives us an advantage occasionally based on match-ups (or mitigates what a guy like Isaac Haas can do in the paint). I thought he'd be better than this, but I think the knee and conditioning issues are going to hold him back all year. Hopefully he gives us more down the road, but I'm not super hopeful at this point. Either way, he's a useful player and seems like a good guy - glad to have him on the team.

My updated evaluation of the team is as follows:

Backcourt - If Tracy slides over primarily to PG and JCL gives us at least what he did toward the end of last year, this is a good group. Tracy looks very good, Hill is about what we expected, and we have shooting and athleticism at each position. We should be able to score a lot of points, even against good teams. If Tate continues to start and JCL regresses this year, the ceiling is a lot lower. Jordan, DJW, and Kipper are a decent set of bench players at the 2-3. I have a hunch that Te'Jon won't get much tick unless the season goes off the rails. I think that's okay, though, provided Tate returns to a backup role.

Frontcourt - I expected this to be a top-4 unit in the B1G, but now I think that was overly optimistic. I do think that Leron may emerge as a solid all-around player this year (like honorable mention all-conference level), but Finke, Morgan, and Thorne are all pretty limited. They all have unique strengths, but they'd probably be best suited as key backups at the P5 level. Don't get me wrong: they're all pretty good players. The huge concern for this group is defense. They can score, and all except Mav can rebound adequately or better. Overall, it's not a horrific unit by any means, but I think it's probably average in the B1G.

Biggest Concern - Defense. It's just not good again this year. Got to improve.

Other Concerns: Turnovers - this has been a strength for Illinois in the past, but this year we're not taking care of the ball; Heart/Killer Instinct - a perennial concern; Team Athleticism - we're pretty average, which may be an issue against NC State, WVU, FSU, MSU, IU, and a few others; Coaching - Groce has a lot to prove. Last night was demoralizing. Let's see how the team and staff bounce back.

Updated Record Prediction: 9-4 non-con, 11-7 B1G, 1-1 BTT; NCAA #9 seed, 1-1 NCAA; final record of 22-13

Anyone have a different perspective?
 
#569      
I like your player reports, but I don't see how all of that "average BIG" description adds up to 11-7 in conference.
I'll take 8 - 10, sorry to say.
 
#570      
I like your player reports, but I don't see how all of that "average BIG" description adds up to 11-7 in conference.
I'll take 8 - 10, sorry to say.

I hear you. 11-7 is on the optimistic side. 8-10 wouldn't shock me. Fwiw, I think when we settle into our long-term rotation, we'll be better than average at the 1-3. I think this version of Tracy (if his legs hold up) is a better than average starter. If JCL puts it together and joins the lineup, he gives us arguably the second best shooter in the league (after Duncan Robinson, who's just absurd). Hill is an animal. Last night is probably the worst shooting game he'll have all year. I think it's a top-5 or 6 group in the B1G.

At the 4-5 positions, I think we're more like #7 or #8 in the league in terms of quality up and down. However, I think that all four of our bigs would crack the rotation at any other B1G school due to their unique gifts (just maybe as the second big off the bench for some teams).
 
#571      

haasi

New York
Our conference schedule tilts heavily to give us a lot of winnable road games later in the season. So if we come together late, we could still put together a very good conference record as long as we perform respectably at home, which we obv didn't do last night. 8-10 would pretty much mean losing all those road games to the bottom of the conference (Rutgers, Nebraska, Penn State, etc.). Hoping that doesn't happen.
 
#573      
Tough to square these two.

This team is deep, old, experienced and healthy. Not your traditional candidate for "better at the end of the year than the beginning".

The thing I hold out hope for is although they are individually experienced they are not experienced playing together. Hopefully there is efficiency gained as they get used to playing together and better define their roles. Maybe I am just hopelessly optimistic but I think this team has better basketball in them.
 
#574      
Lets think outside the box. Ettore Messina. Don't know if he can recruit but bet he can coach.
 
#575      
Updated Record Prediction: 9-4 non-con, 11-7 B1G, 1-1 BTT; NCAA #9 seed, 1-1 NCAA; final record of 22-13

Anyone have a different perspective?

Most everyone? A 9 seed would put you in the 33rd-36th best team in the country. I like your optimism though.