Illini Basketball 2018-2019

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Brings back a large amount of talent? I mean I love Trent better than the next guy but... I'm confused by this assessment.
Trent is certainly a large amount of talent. AJ is most certainly a great boon to the squad. Da'monte is nothing at all to sneeze at... but yeah, we lost our single most talented cog in the roster. And Finke. I wouldn't really choose to pick "returning talent" as the headline to advertise this season.

EDIT: I did a disservice to Kipper through omission... I get almost as upset as BU when I see Kipper on the floor sometimes, because he can plainly be something more than he is on a day-to-day basis. Gotta find the switch and flip it.
 
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Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Brings back a large amount of talent? I mean I love Trent better than the next guy but... I'm confused by this assessment.
With the exception of Black, we didn't honestly lose all that much in terms of production. That's sort of a hard truth. We weren't losing so many games because we had players on the same level as the competition, after all. Finke was a big body, but what did he really give us last year? Fouls?
 
Wilmette, IL
Not sure if this has been posted but this ESPN article has Illinois at #21 in the pre-season ESPN BPI.

It states the following: "We'll group the Big Ten tandem of Iowa and Illinois together. Neither team was good last season, both winning only four games in conference play and 14 games overall. Yet the model projects both teams to take a significant jump. Iowa has the highest quantity of returning talent the model allows, which therefore gives the Hawkeyes the seventh-best offense in the country (and the No. 101-ranked defense, the lowest among any top-25 team). Meanwhile, Illinois also brings back a large amount of talent and welcomes in a solid recruiting class led by ESPN 100 point guard Ayo Dosunmu. The Fighting Illini project to have a top-35 unit at both ends of the floor."

Link: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...virginia-mountaineers-marquette-golden-eagles
Seems pretty clear that ESPN write-up, or at least the analysis, was done when they thought we'd have a returning front court player or two. Even then, it's a stretch to say Top 25, but without any of our returning forwards it's flat out crazy.
 
8-3 or 7-4 non-con. It would depend on the Maui draw.
11-9 or 10-10 B1G I do not see a 12-8 as out of the real of possible.
2-1 or 1-1 in BTT

total is:

21-13 best or 18-15 worst

That gives us a 6-8 seed or NIT.

You read it here first.
Mmmm.. the Kool-Aide is strong with this one.
 
With the exception of Black, we didn't honestly lose all that much in terms of production. That's sort of a hard truth. We weren't losing so many games because we had players on the same level as the competition, after all. Finke was a big body, but what did he really give us last year? Fouls?
Finke gave us 9.8 points and 4.6 rebounds, that is not exactly peanuts. You add Black 15.3/5.2 and Ebo 2.2/2.4, that is 27.3 pts and 12.2 rbs per game in the front court. Our back court got better, but it is a hard case to make that our frontcourt did not take a hit.
 
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8-3 or 7-4 non-con. It would depend on the Maui draw.
11-9 or 10-10 B1G I do not see a 12-8 as out of the real of possible.
2-1 or 1-1 in BTT

total is:

21-13 best or 18-15 worst

That gives us a 6-8 seed or NIT.

You read it here first.
8 non con wins would be an insane stroke of luck. I'd write odds at 8:1. And if we did that, we'd be even to make to tourney at that point.

Pass around some of that juice.
 
Finke only scored 7.0 in conference games while Kipper scored 9.7 in 20.7 mins. If DeLe Rosa is healthy we will have a better front court on defense. If freshman develop quickly, a lot better. Don't believe scoring will be the issue and Ayo instead of Smith will be a huge improvement in both offense and defense.
 
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Former Krush Cow
South Bend, IN
Brings back a large amount of talent? I mean I love Trent better than the next guy but... I'm confused by this assessment.
At first I was like oh maybe they just looked at our top minute earners from last year and a lot are staying. Nope. We lost 4 of our 5 top minute guys. And 6 of our top 10.
 
I don't know about you guys, but my outlook on the season dreadfully changes if Samba Kane doesn't make it back to campus. The lack of highlights vids and exposure out there on him makes some people hesitant. I fully trust the coaching staff on this one.
 
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Finke gave us 9.8 points and 4.6 rebounds, that is not exactly peanuts. You add Black 15.3/5.2 and Ebo 2.2/2.4, that is 27.3 pts and 12.2 rbs per game in the front court. Our back court got better, but it is a hard case to make that our frontcourt did not take a hit.
Finke was an utter sieve on D. Black was mediocre defensively. I'm cautiously optimistic about our frontcourt D. If only because it was so poor last season. Am assuming Kane is on the team and can play passable D. Lotta ifs. Nowhere to go but up.

Offensively, yes, we're taking a hit.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Finke only scored 7.0 in conference games while Kipper scored 9.7 in 20.7 mins. If DeLe Rosa is healthy we will have a better front court on defense. If freshman develop quickly, a lot better. Don't believe scoring will be the issue and Ayo instead of Smith will be a huge improvement in both offense and defense.
Plus, for a guy who is 6'10" or whatever, Finke was nearly a nonfactor on the boards.
 
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Illini optimist
Charleston
I certainly hope you are a wizard and can make that happen. I'd be amazed if we went 8-12 in the Big Ten. Our situation at center has me worried once again that teams will be conducting lay up drills against our interior defense. Like MSU last year and those 20 alley oop dunks.....though I do think our offense will be much improved!!!
Those same teams are wondering how they are going to guard our speed.
 
Likes: hoopsfan47
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
This may be the only reply I will ever have. I graduated in 71' I love this school with all my heart. And I believe this team will start a run that will absolutely change the look of the BIG for the next several years. That's all I have to say. Go Illini.
FTFY. Also, I hope you are correct.
 
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Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Black 5.2 ... Finke 4.7 -- per post above...
Yes, but Black is shorter than Finke, yet still outrebounded him. Also, Black essentially doubled Finke's points per game in conference play. Finke was really not much of a factor last year.
 
Yes, but Black is shorter than Finke, yet still outrebounded him. Also, Black essentially doubled Finke's points per game in conference play. Finke was really not much of a factor last year.
It is not rebounds per inch that count... if I can have an 8-foot player averaging 5 rebounds, I still get 5 rebounds per game that I do not otherwise have. Also, the fact that Black was a better player is not so much relevant, he was. But Black is not on the team, you still lost Black and you lose Finke and 9.8/4.6 per game and even Ebo at 2.2/2.4. At the end, we lost 27.3 pts and 12.2 rbs per game, and it was a weak frontcourt.

But it has a hard case to make that the frontcourt additions will provide 27.3/12.2 combined or that a freshman individually will average similar production to Black, yet it is extremely doubtful that a freshman will even match 9.8 ppg and 4.6 rpg, Finke's production.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
It is not rebounds per inch that count... if I can have an 8-foot player averaging 5 rebounds, I still get 5 rebounds per game that I do not otherwise have. Also, the fact that Black was a better player is not so much relevant, he was. But Black is not on the team, you still lost Black and you lose Finke and 9.8/4.6 per game and even Ebo at 2.2/2.4. At the end, we lost 27.3 pts and 12.2 rbs per game, and it was a weak frontcourt.

But it has a hard case to make that the frontcourt additions will provide 27.3/12.2 combined or that a freshman individually will average similar production to Black, yet it is extremely doubtful that a freshman will even match 9.8 ppg and 4.6 rpg, Finke's production.
I believe the post of mine to which you responded specifically mentioned Finke's low rebound production considering his height. I was pointing out that a big who can't play D, hauls in fewer than 5 rebounds per game, and can't crack 8 ppg in conference play is really of no use to us. He didn't do any of the three big things we'd like him to do well last year. For whatever reason, you then compared his rebounds to Black, who outrebounded him despite being three inches shorter and dramatically outscored him (though admittedly his D wasn't wonderful).

So, I don't know what point of mind you are trying to argue against here. I did say that we didn't honestly lose all that much, and really, we didn't, especially in terms of conference play. I also didn't claim that what we added in the frontcourt would be able to make up for that, because I think our struggles recruiting frontcourt players this year (and lately) are well documented.
 
I don't know about you guys, but my outlook on the season dreadfully changes if Samba Kane doesn't make it back to campus. The lack of highlights vids and exposure out there on him makes some people hesitant. I fully trust the coaching staff on this one.
I have also been VERY WORRIED we're never going to see him in an Illini uniform. Have to kid that kid enrolled and back on campus. We're so thin inside already, with no Kane we're looking at another really long season of interior defense.....
 
I believe the post of mine to which you responded specifically mentioned Finke's low rebound production considering his height... So, I don't know what point of mind you are trying to argue against here.
The post that myself (and others) disagree is #102 above, that with the exception of Black, we do not lose much in terms of production and specifically that Finke did not give us anything other than fouls. Nothing to do with height, which as I explained is irrelevant. Finke's production for the entire season of 9.8 ppg and 4.6 rpg is no small change.

Nobody has claimed Finke was all world or better than Black, but his production for the season would be extremely difficult to replicate by a freshman. Adding Black and Ebo, our frontcourt production took a big hit, no doubt about that.
 
I was pointing out that a big who can't play D, hauls in fewer than 5 rebounds per game, and can't crack 8 ppg in conference play is really of no use to us.
Just so we can all level the expectations for the freshmen on the frontcourt. No freshman frontcourt player (PF or C) in the last 20+ years has ever averaged 9.8 ppg (Finke's production). And we had some good/great frontcourt players over that time span, including Cook, Augustine, Mike Davis, Shaun Pruitt, Richmond, Leonard, Tisdale, Egwu. Even the 8 ppg conference mark that you mention, the last freshman frontcourt player who I believe did that (although they were not keeping conference individual stats back then) may have been Brian Cook.

Hopefully, some of our freshmen frontcourt players will develop into great players, but expectations should be tempered in their freshman year.
 
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Little Rock, Arkansas
Just so we can all level the expectations for the freshmen on the frontcourt. No freshman frontcourt player (PF or C) in the last 20+ years has ever averaged 9.8 ppg (Finke's production). And we had some good/great frontcourt players over that time span, including Cook, Augustine, Mike Davis, Shaun Pruitt, Richmond, Leonard, Tisdale, Egwu. Even the 8 ppg conference mark that you mention, the last freshman frontcourt player who I believe did that (although they were not keeping conference individual stats back then) may have been Brian Cook.

Hopefully, some of our freshmen frontcourt players will develop into great players, but expectations should be tempered in their freshman year.
I’m not counting on our bigs to match Finke and Black’s production. It would be a crazy miracle if that happened. (We are due for one right??)

I’m hoping our SG position will fill in the gap where our bigs fall short in terms of ppg. It looks like Smith and Alstork averaged only 9.7 ppg combined in conference. If we can get 15-18 out of whoever happens to be the SG on the floor, that would be great. (Ayo/Trent/Griffin?)
 
It is not rebounds per inch that count... if I can have an 8-foot player averaging 5 rebounds, I still get 5 rebounds per game that I do not otherwise have. Also, the fact that Black was a better player is not so much relevant, he was. But Black is not on the team, you still lost Black and you lose Finke and 9.8/4.6 per game and even Ebo at 2.2/2.4. At the end, we lost 27.3 pts and 12.2 rbs per game, and it was a weak frontcourt.

But it has a hard case to make that the frontcourt additions will provide 27.3/12.2 combined or that a freshman individually will average similar production to Black, yet it is extremely doubtful that a freshman will even match 9.8 ppg and 4.6 rpg, Finke's production.
What was their rebounds per 40? :cool:
 
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