Illini Basketball 2018-2019

[Damir Krupalija’s Hair]

We need an alarm that goes off when people make things up about Groce to make Underwood seem better. 2013 we had the #5 SOS according to KenPom. 2014 was #15 SOS.

Look up the non-con SOS for those years before you sound the alarm...

2012-13 was his strongest non-con schedule with the Maui, still not nearly as strong as this year, and he didn’t even set that schedule. Was already in place.

From there, we moved onto tough non-con tourneys like the Las Vegas Invitational filled with powerhouses such as Brown, Austin Peay, Indiana St.

 

[StateFarmCenter]

We need an alarm that goes off when people make things up about Groce to make Underwood seem better. 2013 we had the #5 SOS according to KenPom. 2014 was #15 SOS.

2014 the non-conference schedule was #278. The Big Ten just happened to be a gauntlet. 2013 Groce didnt really set that schedule and publicly complained about it. Non-con was still only 185 but I'd say it actually felt tougher than that.

 

[jrichisamazing]

Way better than Groce ball. The short term memory effect is real. That was agonizing. It’s bad now, but not that bad, regardless of the record. Groce never played a tough schedule, either.

I’d take Groce over BU with this roster in a heartbeat. He never had a PG and yet had us playing better basketball than this. BU has 3 PG’s plus a combo guard in Damonte and our offense still can’t do anything.

Ayo and Frazier would be looking much better in Groce’s offense right now. And I would think Mark Smith would have done much better under Groce as well.

 

[Obelix]

Look up the non-con SOS for those years before you sound the alarm...

2012-13 was his strongest non-con schedule with the Maui, still not nearly as strong as this year, and he didn’t even set that schedule. Was already in place.

From there, we moved onto tough non-con tourneys like the Las Vegas Invitational filled with powerhouses such as Brown, Austin Peay, Indiana St.

That is nonsense. The fact is that we played the #5 SOS (KenPom) in 2013, which accounts for the SOS for the entire season and we made the NCAA. That's what it matters, and we are talking performance here, it does not matter who set the schedule. And in 2014 we played the #15 SOS, again for the entire season, and made the NIT. You are not going to get any cookies for just playing a tough non-conf SOS. What do you suggest, raising a banner "Played Tough Non-Conf SOS"?

For the entire Groce era we were pretty an NIT team and we all thought it was not enough. What we have seen so far in the Underwood era, is way below NIT level and that is the truth, which is pretty troublesome considering that recruiting is not going that well either.

 

[Berg88]

Look up the non-con SOS for those years before you sound the alarm...

2012-13 was his strongest non-con schedule with the Maui, still not nearly as strong as this year, and he didn’t even set that schedule. Was already in place.

From there, we moved onto tough non-con tourneys like the Las Vegas Invitational filled with powerhouses such as Brown, Austin Peay, Indiana St.

Yeah, what a wimp, why didn't he just schedule Maui every year? Outside of Maui this year, we have 2 non-conference games against top 100 teams, ND and Missouri, neither of which were scheduled by BU. Also, your statement was that Groce never played a tough schedule, and that is simply false.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

Bob - you simply can’t conclude that Underwood created the roster turnover. No one outside the actual team knows what was going on. You choose to conclude that it’s underwoods fault that all those players left. I don’t know that I agree with that. A lot of things happen in the locker room that the fans never hear about. I will say in an early season interview that Frazier said the locker room culture has significantly improved and guys like hanging out with each other this year.

I’m sure it did improve, because it would be hard not to improve over an environment that saw TeJon Lucas comically, blatantly freezing out Mark Smith during games last year.

And that said, I’m sure everyone is in a great mood in the preseason. Check back in when we’re in the middle of a 10 game conference losing streak.

 

[Damir Krupalija’s Hair]

I’d take Groce over BU with this roster in a heartbeat. He never had a PG and yet had us playing better basketball than this. BU has 3 PG’s plus a combo guard in Damonte and our offense still can’t do anything.

Ayo and Frazier would be looking much better in Groce’s offense right now. And I would think Mark Smith would have done much better under Groce as well.

I’m as frustrated as anyone but let’s be realistic. Trent is good, Ayo is a freshman, and it’s not like DaMonte is some explosive combo guard that can fill it up. It’s been 8 games against good competition. This team is above .500 with a Groce cupcake non-con schedule.

Groce failed to make the tourney with a dynamic offensive player in Ray Rice, a defensive force with Egwu, sprinkled with Malcolm and Kendrick. His roster assembly outside of that was atreocious but that team still should’ve went to the tournament regardless of who else was on the roster.

 

[ChocolateThunder]

I think you need to drop the Groce rhetoric and concentrate on what is happening now, because reality is that in BU's tenure so far we are doing worse than the previous coaching regime and that is the truth and facts. This "make believe" hypothetical scenarios of pretending we are doing better right now are not based on reality.

Agreed the past is past. The important question is what is the best way to get to where we want to go?

 

[Berg88]

but nothing could sink worse than the Groce era.

 

[KenR]

It's obvious that recruiting, or lack thereof, is the key. I honestly believe that Bruce Weber would be very successful and still HC at Illinois had he successfully recruited quality players comparable to the likes of Lon Kruger and Self. I'm not learned enough to fully understand exactly why Illinois can't regularly bring upper echelon players to the program but it's painfully obvious that it isn't happening and most likely never will on a par with Kentucky, Duke, NC, Kansas, Michigan State, Michigan, and in more recent years, Villanova.

I always have been, and forever will be interested and will always harbor hopes that the program once again becomes a source of pride to those of us that love the Illini. It is with great pain to say that our personal enthusiasm is deeply diminished with the hopelessness that nothing is likely to change in the foreseeable future besides the names of the administrators, coaches and players.

 

[Calvin]

Game time came around, and I managed to stop myself from watching. It was hard, as I really want to see the team make strides, develop, and improve, even if they're losing games. My threshold for watching is pretty low, honestly.

If I were coaching these young guys, I would never give up on them. However, I'm a fan. I don't know them personally, and I watch because it's exciting and fun to watch guys give it their all, work together, overcome losses, learn from adversity, etc..

This team can't even beat a double digit spread, let alone a decent opponent. When a team's not getting results, I look for signs of life, like getting 50-50 balls, playing harder during crunch time, not rolling over, getting rebounds, taking pride in execution even when the clock says there's little to no hope of a win, etc. Because if you do those things, the wins will almost certainly come down the road as you get better. This team, as far as I can tell, doesn't do those things.

The coach has to teach that. It's not like guys randomly show up asking to put on that uniform. Coach recruits the players he wants. In this case, he managed to run off almost the entire team he inherited. Most forum posts were concerned about the turnover, but resolved that a coach has to have his players. Coach is the one who brings in the assistants. Coach is the one who earns the insane paycheck. Coach is responsible for recruiting his players. AD is responsible for putting a sensible contract in place.

So where I'm at is that this program is in big trouble (no surprise, I assume that's a common sentiment). Coach isn't looking anywhere near as good as his peers that were hired that year. Whitman made a common mistake by guaranteeing too much money and limiting our options. The pipeline for recruiting midway through year 2 is awful. If going into year 3 coach is on the hotseat, the contract buyout is still prohibitive. Think about it...you're looking at 4 years of Underwood, assuming this trajectory continues and he's bought out before year 5. How does that feel?

I'm at a loss. I would never discourage a fan from supporting the program fully, but I don't see much life in this program. My remaining hope is that it takes time to get his system going, and that the youth on the roster will collectively have a light bulb go on as they have more time to run it. And that once it's clicking, we will see everything snowball. My gut says that's not even remotely possible --we'd have seen signs of great coaching by now.

Apologies to the optimists --I usually refrain from anything that would be perceived as piling on, but I do think it's fair to criticize how things are going.

 

[Obelix]

Coach recruits the players he wants. In this case, he managed to run off almost the entire team he inherited. Most forum posts were concerned about the turnover, but resolved that a coach has to have his players.

Problem is that he also run off all the recruits he recruited himself, his own recruits.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Problem is that he also run off all the recruits he recruited himself, his own recruits.

Dead wrong. Vesel, sure (and, clearly, not a mistake). Not Smith. Not Ebo. Those guys left of their own volition. Vesel was a last minute lottery ticket. Frequently, those don't work out. C'est la vie.

 

[Innocent Primate]

In my humble opinion (just to add my two cents), there isn’t any doubt that successful major college sports programs enhance the image of a university. Ever see anyone wear Duke or North Carolina or Michigan or Stanford paraphernalia ? Lots of people wear them, and lots who, I have no doubt, have never been on those campuses (or could find them with a divining rod). Ever see anyone who didn’t themselves (or a family member) attend Illinois wear Illinois paraphernalia ? In my estimation, there can’t be many. Why is that ? (And if successful major college sports programs somehow detract from a perception of academic excellence, we’d better get Duke, Michigan and Stanford on the line tout suite.)

And, to me, it’s a shame. Illinois is, after all, a charter member of the Big 10. And if we go back, say, 100 years, it seems in the early days to have been holding its own, sportswise, with, say, the Michigans of the world. I certainly don’t hold myself out as any expert, but it seems to me that sometime a little after that time (with brief exceptions, here and there) through a varying combination of, I’m sure, many things (incompetence, apathy, antipathy), the Athletic Department and the major sports programs became average at best. (In my view, more than enough blame to go around, starting with the Board of Trustees on down.) Sure, Illinois has lots of wins, but how many national championships (or seriously contending for such) in major sports ? (Is there such a thing as University or Athletic Department malpractice ?)

And one of my idiosyncratic peeves. You have the Michigan fight song, the Wisconsin fight song, the Notre Dame fight song. (And others I could mention, such as Southern Cal.) Everyone knows and hums them, if nothing else for enjoyment. I’m not trying to denigrate anyone, but who connected to the University, upon first hearing Illinois Loyalty, said, “That’s catchy. That’s inspiring. That’s the song for us.” ? Ever hear anyone unconnected with the University hum Illinois Loyalty ?

Well, my rant is over. I could go on, but I’m sure no one wants me to. Be kind.

 

[OrangeSoda]

You better start by doing some research on the subject, because your knowledge on the subject does not seem very impressive.. There are many articles published in academia about the effect of athletics, especially revenue sports (football and basketball) on academic institutions, including articles by Harvard Business School professors published in prestigious academic journals and also republished in highly valued general economic publications (e.g., Forbes and others). Based on research by Harvard Business School, the effects are simply startling:

• When a school rises from mediocre to great on the gridiron, applications increase by 18.7 percent.
• To attain similar effects, a school has to either lower tuition by 3.8 percent or increase the quality of its education by recruiting higher-quality faculty, who are paid 5 percent more than their average peers in the academic labor market.
• Students with lower-than-average SAT scores tended to have a stronger preference for schools known for athletic success, while students with higher SAT scores preferred institutions with greater academic quality. Also, students with lower academic prowess valued the success of intercollegiate athletics for longer periods of time than the high SAT achievers.
• Even students with high SAT scores are significantly affected by athletic success—one of the biggest surprises from the research, Chung says.
• Schools become more academically selective with athletic success.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbswor...ess-boosts-college-applications/#28daf9586e96

Is Obelix just a clone of Second and Chalmers or...?

 

[skyIdub]

Would you trade our current program...coach and all...for Nebby? Rutgers? PSU? Purdue? Wisky? Minny? NW? Iowa? Maryland?

I think I know the answer to the other four?

 

[GForce]

Is Obelix just a clone of Second and Chalmers or...?

S&C's auto-poster bot

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

Would you trade our current program...coach and all...for Nebby? Rutgers? PSU? Purdue? Wisky? Minny? NW? Iowa? Maryland?

I think I know the answer to the other four?

Is this asking if I would take those coaches at Illinois, or if we could just magically be achieving their results? If the latter, I would switch with literally everyone but Rutgers and PSU (recent upset and all). If it's the former, I am a lot less sure. I think I'd trade with Wisconsin and Purdue without much hesitation. Nebraska? Probably not. This is Underwood's second year, and I don't remember wanting Tim Miles after his second year at Nebraska. Rutgers? Absolutely not. Penn State? Will you guys seriously be happy if Underwood is in his eight season and we are in PSU's position? Absolutely not, and he would not survive for half of that time if we're not back to being regular Tournament contenders. Minnesota? Nah. They're "better than we are," but I'm not sure they really have a much brighter future. Northwestern? Hard to say ... it's an odd place to coach, IMO. Who knows how Collins would do at U of I. Iowa? Nah. We've seen what Fran is about for quite a while now, and it's not what we want; Brad Underwood's success or failure is not relevant to that fact. Maryland? Yep.

 

[ILL in IA]

Is Obelix just a clone of Second and Chalmers or...?

The account with the new Flyers mascot as its avatar is an S&C reincarnation, right?

 

[skyIdub]

Is this asking if I would take those coaches at Illinois, or if we could just magically be achieving their results? If the latter, I would switch with literally everyone but Rutgers and PSU (recent upset and all). If it's the former, I am a lot less sure. I think I'd trade with Wisconsin and Purdue without much hesitation. Nebraska? Probably not. This is Underwood's second year, and I don't remember wanting Tim Miles after his second year at Nebraska. Rutgers? Absolutely not. Penn State? Will you guys seriously be happy if Underwood is in his eight season and we are in PSU's position? Absolutely not, and he would not survive for half of that time if we're not back to being regular Tournament contenders. Minnesota? Nah. They're "better than we are," but I'm not sure they really have a much brighter future. Northwestern? Hard to say ... it's an odd place to coach, IMO. Who knows how Collins would do at U of I. Iowa? Nah. We've seen what Fran is about for quite a while now, and it's not what we want; Brad Underwood's success or failure is not relevant to that fact. Maryland? Yep.

The whole program. I think most of us that take off the orange tinted glasses realized this was going to be a difficult year. Struggling to .500.
If the team gives up on him this year, or next year starts off like this....then we have real, actual, oh sh#t problems.

 

[skyIdub]

The account with the new Flyers mascot as its avatar is an S&C reincarnation, right?

 

[PlayAZ]

Interesting as in that is the only Friends Episode where Aniston's headlamps weren't on?

 

[Dren1]

The account with the new Flyers mascot as its avatar is an S&C reincarnation, right?

That was my assumption as well, very similar in style.

 

[Ramrod2010]

Interesting as in that is the only Friends Episode where Aniston's headlamps weren't on?

They are on in this one too.

 

[skyIdub]

Interesting as in that is the only Friends Episode where Aniston's headlamps weren't on?

Even when they weren't on, I always turned them on in my mind. Usually on high beam.