Tacomallini
- Washington State
I often check on my phone so I don't even see that avatars. Does New Flyers mascot post 27 times a day, on average?
Illini Basketball 2018-2019
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Tacomallini
- Washington State
Stinks to have any player suspended, but I'm glad to see that Tev has traveled with the team. I don't think that's been the case in years past, has it?
Bolded only for me. Miles has shown literally nothing up to this year that's he's capable of running a top tier P6 school. Painter has PU above where Weber had us after 2006. Not a Gard fan, but they are still a better program than us the last decade, likewise with Maryland. Iowa would be a yes if Fran still wasn't their HC, he's lucky his spawn are good at basketball.
RU, NW, PSU are all still bottom tier P6 jobs, none of which look particularly on the upswing. I think slotting Illinois as the 8th best program overall (broad I know) in the B1G sounds right, but knock us down a spot or two for unavoidable bias on my part.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
You use Gritty's name when you speak of him.
Deleted member 645583
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Guest
Interesting: according to Illinois 2018-19 Record Book, Illinois has had only 13 losing seasons since 1905-06. Of course, there were mediocre, above - .500 teams over the years.
Among the worst:
1-10 ,1906-07 (Pinckney coach) 0-8 Big 10
5-18, 73-74, Schmidt, 2-12 Big
8-18, 74-75, Bartow, 4-14 Big
And Henson, Kruger, Weber, Groce and Underwood had losing seasons. It happens.
I'm no Bill James; interpret things any way you want.
But the Record Book is great! Only $15 through b-ball office; you can download, too.
P.S. On Jan. 31, 1907 Illinois lost to Minnesota 42-3 - in basketball, not football! And do you realize Illini are tied with North Carolina in the all-time series between the two at 4-4?
Go Fighting Illini!
Among the worst:
1-10 ,1906-07 (Pinckney coach) 0-8 Big 10
5-18, 73-74, Schmidt, 2-12 Big
8-18, 74-75, Bartow, 4-14 Big
And Henson, Kruger, Weber, Groce and Underwood had losing seasons. It happens.
I'm no Bill James; interpret things any way you want.
But the Record Book is great! Only $15 through b-ball office; you can download, too.
P.S. On Jan. 31, 1907 Illinois lost to Minnesota 42-3 - in basketball, not football! And do you realize Illini are tied with North Carolina in the all-time series between the two at 4-4?
Go Fighting Illini!
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Pro-tip: Rotating your phone (ie. landscape style) will show the avatars.
Purdue, Wisconsin, Maryland. I want to say no to Iowa, but I think any non-Illini fan would say Iowa over Illinois.
Gents, I don't remember any serious NCAA runs from nebby, PSU, Iowa, nu, PSU. Minny had a F4 vacated and Purdue had a couple E8 I remember.
The playing field and recruiting has changed and Illinois hasn't adapted well. Who ever said we are PSU during Taylor Battle seems about right. Need to keep underclassmen core intact and we will be ok.
The playing field and recruiting has changed and Illinois hasn't adapted well. Who ever said we are PSU during Taylor Battle seems about right. Need to keep underclassmen core intact and we will be ok.
Deleted member 645583
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I was happy to see Tevian with the team. Bodes well?
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
Last post on this from me - since it's off topic. Also because I'm going to choose to refrain from furthering one of your pedantic debates you seem to enjoy so much on this board.
I suggest you reread my original post. You can call out all the application stats, tuition cost, etc. etc. info you want. But those are surrogate endpoints to what I specified in my post - academic standing (specifically vs. schools w/o major athletic programs). I look at academic studies all day - surrogate endpoints do not equal gold standard endpoints many times.
My knowledge on this subject is obviously not nearly as impressive as yours. So I better get moving and start pulling stuff that I've already read...including the below from the NBER (not sure if that's as worthy a source as your HBR). The author below found similar data to what you're citing (and what I cited in my original post), but STILL said that the conclusions from historically studies are mixed and the ROI is not good.
"Anderson said previous research findings have been split about whether athletic success has any effect on these aspects of institutional development: “I think the previous research had been pretty mixed,” he said. And even though his findings reveal effects that are up to three times greater than those in previous studies, he said these “spillover benefits” are still not enough to justify athletics expenditures.
According to the report, if a college improves its season wins by 5 games, it can expect alumni athletic donations to increase by $682,000 (28 percent), applications to increase by 677 (5 percent), in-state enrollment to increase by 76 students (3 percent) and incoming students’ 25th-percentile SAT scores to increase by nine points (1 percent). But Anderson said these positive effects would not recoup however much money a college invested in its athletics program."
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...among-other-areas-correlated-football-success
Unless you are privy to the direct discussions with recruits, you do not know if he run anyone off IF you just mean telling them that they have to leave the program. You do not know that. Whether he tells them that they have to leave or just his personality or they way he runs the program drives them off to seek other opportunities, the result is exactly the same. I think the latter is actually worse, players who could potentially help decide to leave. When all of your own recruits either do not pan out (e.g., Alstork) or leave the program (Smith, Ebo, Vesel) the result is the same.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
That's some genius-level technological wizardry coming out of Kendall County.
There are five programs IMO that are currently well positioned to consistently compete at the top of the B1G, having shown the necessary consistency (even with new coaches like BU) in recruiting but also having very strong overall coaches: MSU, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio State, and Maryland. That is the desired level of consistency and leadership needed.
Unfortunately, there are multiple programs below that level in much better shape (and trajectory) than us that will compete for the occasional (yet not necessarily consistent) 2-3 additional spots per year that lead to the NCAA tournament, and you have to give Purdue and Wisconsin (currently) an edge for those spots. We are way, WAY off the path and trajectory to compete with those well positioned 5 programs, and at best, we can only hope to make an occasional run (like 2012-13) for one of the remaining 2-3 spots for the NCAA tournament.
Unfortunately, there are multiple programs below that level in much better shape (and trajectory) than us that will compete for the occasional (yet not necessarily consistent) 2-3 additional spots per year that lead to the NCAA tournament, and you have to give Purdue and Wisconsin (currently) an edge for those spots. We are way, WAY off the path and trajectory to compete with those well positioned 5 programs, and at best, we can only hope to make an occasional run (like 2012-13) for one of the remaining 2-3 spots for the NCAA tournament.
Deleted member 645583
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Guest
I, for one, like beating a dead horse (figuratively) .
But Self could have made Illini in to top-four program and possible national championships. Thanks, Bruce, for the great run!
But Self had Villanueva coming in, plus others.
I'm living in the past, I guess, But I think the loss of Self was a watershed moment in Illini b-ball history.
And the program, and we, have never recovered.
Still - Fighting Illini!
But Self could have made Illini in to top-four program and possible national championships. Thanks, Bruce, for the great run!
But Self had Villanueva coming in, plus others.
I'm living in the past, I guess, But I think the loss of Self was a watershed moment in Illini b-ball history.
And the program, and we, have never recovered.
Still - Fighting Illini!
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I know one direct result of our crappy football and basketball programs that doesn't need the scientific method:
I have insignificant street cred at the watercooler compared to ten years ago. In fact, I'm relieved when I can go a whole week without someone mentioning the Illini.
I know, I know, anecdotal...
I have insignificant street cred at the watercooler compared to ten years ago. In fact, I'm relieved when I can go a whole week without someone mentioning the Illini.
I know, I know, anecdotal...
The problem wasn't Self leaving it was not finding adequate replacements. Kruger was a better coach IMHO. We went from Henson/Kruger/Self to Weber/Groce/BU.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I can't quite recall if the timing was impossible or anything like that, but it's a REAL shame we didn't end up with Matta.
It is not about finding an "adequate replacement," which I agree we did not do, but more about finding the "right replacement." As I have said before, and contrary to others, the Illinois job is a great job with great potential (other disagree) but you have to find the "right fit", the right coach. Being a great recruiter is a necessary element IMO, but obviously not sufficient or the only element.
I disagree that Kruger was a better coach or a better fit for Illinois. I think there are reasons that Self is in the HOF and is considered a more highly sought coach. But Kruger did indeed do very well under very difficult circumstances. We had been blacklisted and boycotted in Chicago, he did recruit well in the rest of the state and St. Louis (Archibald). Did he get a little lucky with the availability of talent that period (e.g., Peoria trio) and the Judson connection? He sure did, but he deserves credit for capitalizing on opportunities.
We also hit it perfectly with the transition to Self as well. It was well pretty well known that Kruger bumped heads with some of the players (Frankie, Griff and Sergio -- Sergio called Self the best thing that happened to that team and that Kruger was a pain in the behind) and Self had an uncanny ability to quickly connect with and motivate players. The most amazing thing IMO was Self mending fences with Chicago and press and AAU/HS programs in pretty much a single year. The best fit for Illinois in its history, yet not the coach who made the most contributions to the program since he left early (that honor goes to Henson).
I was a strong supporter pushing for Matta as a replacement, who I knew from very close sources really wanted the job. UI made some preliminary contact/discussion, but Guenther decided to go a different direction and pursue a candidate fitting a different mold, Weber, who IMO was a terrible fit.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
I suggest you both read all of each others posts suggesting that you read the others post suggesting that you read another post until you're both sucked into a wormhole created in your computer screens, landing together in a WWE Steel Cage Match with Andre The Giant and Randy Macho Man Savage and they both tell you that college educations suck and college athletic programs don't matter follwed by all of you fake smashing chairs on each others heads.....or Dan just deletes it all.
Guenther decided to go a different direction and pursue a candidate fitting a different mold, Weber, who IMO was a terrible fit.[/QUOTE]
I think your right about Weber not being a good fit, but I think Weber was and is a better X's and O's coach than Self.
I think your right about Weber not being a good fit, but I think Weber was and is a better X's and O's coach than Self.
If you believe that, it even shows how much more important recruiting is as well as other factors (e.g., personality, relationship building, etc.) in selecting the right coach.
This farm boy got edumacated real smart.:thumb:
I have no idea how you could possibly say this while watching this team play. Here are Groce's conference records...
8-10
7-11
9-9
5-13 (season filled with injuries and suspensions)
8-10
It would be a miracle if we won 4 conference games this year. Groce underperformed and that's why he got fired, but he didn't drive this program into the ground. In fact, he gave BU a lot of young pieces to work with. The cupboard wasn't full, but it was far from bare.
GortTheRobot
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Iowa made it to the FF in the 79-80 season, under Lute Olsen. They lost to Purdue.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Steve Prohm. Don't think he'd take the job, though.
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