Illini Basketball 2019-2020

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OFL Supplier, BU's Brylcreem
Virginia
Curious how a guy considered possibly the best pt guard in the country, in your mind, should not be considered the best in the Big Ten? He makes passes a lot of guys don't even see and a lot of his turnovers against us were because guys didn't catch the ball or, didn't get their head around quickly enough. Not his fault but, your reason for criticizing his game.
Seriously - did you watch the game? He threw more than a few just out of bounds in a panic. If he can't use his off hand, he struggles on ball handling. And yes, I don't agree with the national opinion - I look at what I see and make my own judgement. Hype plays a big part of the national view, along with what team the players is on, etc.

IMO there is no way he's the best PG in the country. I actually think there are a few in the big 10 that scare me more than he does. And if he was THAT good - he'd be off to the NBA. They clearly see something the "national opinion" doesn't see.
 

Deleted member 643761

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Seriously - did you watch the game? He threw more than a few just out of bounds in a panic. If he can't use his off hand, he struggles on ball handling. And yes, I don't agree with the national opinion - I look at what I see and make my own judgement. Hype plays a big part of the national view, along with what team the players is on, etc.

IMO there is no way he's the best PG in the country. I actually think there are a few in the big 10 that scare me more than he does. And if he was THAT good - he'd be off to the NBA. They clearly see something the "national opinion" doesn't see.
He was big ten player of the year.

He turns the ball over a lot. He gets a ton of assists. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you're in a distinct minority. Just guessing, but I'm betting most of the people voting on these awards have seen him more than you.
 
Likes: KevinC
I will be disappointed if we aren't at least a top four team in the BIG. I'm willing to bet we will be. They are going to be on the attack this year. That is a very capable starting five and we have depth! 👍
I hate to be that guy, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. We were 4-14 in conference last year so expecting us to suddenly be on top might be a bit much. Do I think they'll have a much better season? No doubt. Can they make the tournament? I think so. Top 4 might be this team's ceiling, but I think just finishing in the top half of the conference and making the NCAA tournament is a much more realistic goal. And if you end up being right, I'll gladly eat some delicious crow.
 
Seriously - did you watch the game? He threw more than a few just out of bounds in a panic. If he can't use his off hand, he struggles on ball handling. And yes, I don't agree with the national opinion - I look at what I see and make my own judgement. Hype plays a big part of the national view, along with what team the players is on, etc.

IMO there is no way he's the best PG in the country. I actually think there are a few in the big 10 that scare me more than he does. And if he was THAT good - he'd be off to the NBA. They clearly see something the "national opinion" doesn't see.
The only reason he didn't go is that he is not the physical specimen that NBA teams desire. He is considered by his coach and many others as the best passer at MSU since Magic. Somehow, the coaches did vote him Player of the Year in the B1G. I know a number of NBA scouts that just wish he was a little quicker with a bit more spring. You are entitled to your own judgement but, don't make up your own facts.
 
Seriously - did you watch the game? He threw more than a few just out of bounds in a panic. If he can't use his off hand, he struggles on ball handling. And yes, I don't agree with the national opinion - I look at what I see and make my own judgement. Hype plays a big part of the national view, along with what team the players is on, etc.

IMO there is no way he's the best PG in the country. I actually think there are a few in the big 10 that scare me more than he does. And if he was THAT good - he'd be off to the NBA. They clearly see something the "national opinion" doesn't see.
This is a very odd take. You're talking about hype, but have you looked at his stats? 50/40/84 with a 45% assist rate? Kenpom, which doesn't use hype in its calculations, had him at 4 in its player of the year calculation. He had a lot of turnovers against us, but that was literally the most he had all year. Using that game as a barometer to judge him is not useful. BTW, he still had a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio that game, better than Ayo. I'd be very interested to know who the "few" big 10 PGs are that scare you more than him, because I'm not thinking of any.
 
OFL Supplier, BU's Brylcreem
Virginia
He was big ten player of the year.

He turns the ball over a lot. He gets a ton of assists. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you're in a distinct minority. Just guessing, but I'm betting most of the people voting on these awards have seen him more than you.
And I am ok in being in the minority. Do you think he would have been the big 10 player of the year on Northwestern?
 
OFL Supplier, BU's Brylcreem
Virginia
The only reason he didn't go is that he is not the physical specimen that NBA teams desire. He is considered by his coach and many others as the best passer at MSU since Magic. Somehow, the coaches did vote him Player of the Year in the B1G. I know a number of NBA scouts that just wish he was a little quicker with a bit more spring. You are entitled to your own judgement but, don't make up your own facts.
Which facts are you referring to? I stated an opinion 1) not saying he isn't a good player, I just don't agree with the general idea of him being the top guard in the big 10 nor nation. And I think he takes advantage of a ton of using his off arm to do what he does (if the refs let him do that - good for him, but I don't see that as a 'talent' rather a method - but it did give him an advantage. 2) I don't think he'd be doing the same on a weaker team - let's face it - he would not be as affective without the talent around him - not many would be. So, not stating facts, rather my opinion - I honestly think we played against tougher guards than him this year.
 
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OFL Supplier, BU's Brylcreem
Virginia
He was big ten player of the year.

He turns the ball over a lot. He gets a ton of assists. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you're in a distinct minority. Just guessing, but I'm betting most of the people voting on these awards have seen him more than you.
Unfortunately you'd be surprised.... some, no doubt, but the group think in these types of areas is probably significant. You do realize coaches polls, as an example, are very often filled out by some grunt down the line... and stats play, of course, a big part in opinion. Good stats, of course, in a team sport are aided by very good team support.

IMO he would not have been Big ten player of the year on a bottom 5 team. Yes, MSU is better because of him, but his stats are also better because he plays on a top team surrounded by very good talent. To his credit, he did have a very good ability to stay in games and his minutes are very high since MSU really didn't have much to back him up at point.

My original argument was that he was very good using his off arm to make room, get to the basket, etc. he uses that very well to his advantage, but to me it also indicates he doesn't believe he has the skills necessary to take the average college defender off the dribble. Trent gave him trouble last year and the refs actually called him on it at least once if not twice. Its actually something I wish the refs would get consistent on - if the defender must show hands - the offensive guard should not be able to use theirs to get by. But that's an argument for another day.

I'll leave it there as I've already responded too much for too long in a thread meant for discussion on our team. In any event, I assume we all can agree It will be fun to see us force him into many, many TOs this year!
 
Likes: TruIllini89
Bonnaroo Land
Trent, Ayo, Tevian, Kofi, Giorgi, Andres, Alan, Kipper, DaMonte, Samba. Very solid 1-10 and a very capable bench. If the first 5 start this season as many predict, then 4 out of the 5 on the bench have started games. I think that makes for a pretty good bench.
 
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Deleted member 643761

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Unfortunately you'd be surprised.... some, no doubt, but the group think in these types of areas is probably significant. You do realize coaches polls, as an example, are very often filled out by some grunt down the line... and stats play, of course, a big part in opinion. Good stats, of course, in a team sport are aided by very good team support.

IMO he would not have been Big ten player of the year on a bottom 5 team. Yes, MSU is better because of him, but his stats are also better because he plays on a top team surrounded by very good talent. To his credit, he did have a very good ability to stay in games and his minutes are very high since MSU really didn't have much to back him up at point.

My original argument was that he was very good using his off arm to make room, get to the basket, etc. he uses that very well to his advantage, but to me it also indicates he doesn't believe he has the skills necessary to take the average college defender off the dribble. Trent gave him trouble last year and the refs actually called him on it at least once if not twice. Its actually something I wish the refs would get consistent on - if the defender must show hands - the offensive guard should not be able to use theirs to get by. But that's an argument for another day.

I'll leave it there as I've already responded too much for too long in a thread meant for discussion on our team. In any event, I assume we all can agree It will be fun to see us force him into many, many TOs this year!
Did Winston steal your girlfriend?

The Big Ten coaches unanimously selected him to the first team all big ten team. Between the games they had against MSU and the game film they watched, they saw most every minute he played.

Now you're calling out people because they think the same thing as every big ten coach. Where's my crazy emoji when I need it?
 
Likes: KevinC
When will Kouma get the NY State Regents Exams results?? Is there a possibility he doesn't make it academically for this season?
 
Yahoo sports 6/21 mock draft for 2020 has Ayo at 18 next year.
Ayo is good but must get better. After watching the draft yesterday it's clear the emphasis is on being able to shoot the ball and finish through contact. I think Ayo can be a first round pick but he isnt there yet. He made the right choice to return this season even though after the first few players imo this was a fairly weak draft. He will need to sit down and assess things again next year just like he did this season. I think he will improve and he will need to to be a first round pick. I am not sure that is written in stone just yet.
 
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Ayo is good but must get better. After watching the draft yesterday it's clear the emphasis is on being able to shoot the ball and finish through contact. I think Ayo can be a first round pick but he isnt there yet. He made the right choice to return this season even though after the first few players imo this was a fairly weak draft. He will need to sit down and assess things again next year just like he did this season. I think he will improve and he will need to to be a first round pick. I am not sure that is written in stone just yet.
I don’t disagree necessarily, but for the sake of argument I’d contend there’s some things to suggest Ayo is about as good an NBA pg prospect as some guys who went early. Take Coby White for example. They’re about the same size with a length advantage to Ayo. As you pointed out, shooting is important and Ayo actually shot better % wise from 3 than White. White is lightning quick and good transition, but Ayo is also pretty quick and really darn good in transition. I will definitely say Ayo is a more gifted passer with true point guard court vision (White gets a lot of criticism on this one). Either way, as you pointed out, it is in Ayo’s best interest to improve. I do think Ayo is already 1st round material though.
 
I don’t disagree necessarily, but for the sake of argument I’d contend there’s some things to suggest Ayo is about as good an NBA pg prospect as some guys who went early. Take Coby White for example. They’re about the same size with a length advantage to Ayo. As you pointed out, shooting is important and Ayo actually shot better % wise from 3 than White. White is lightning quick and good transition, but Ayo is also pretty quick and really darn good in transition. I will definitely say Ayo is a more gifted passer with true point guard court vision (White gets a lot of criticism on this one). Either way, as you pointed out, it is in Ayo’s best interest to improve. I do think Ayo is already 1st round material though.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but it looks like Ayo shot .1% lower than Coby on about 100 fewer 3s. But by and large your point stands, and that's probably why he is going pretty high in early mock drafts.
 
you feel me, dog?
Elmhurst
Ayo is good but must get better. After watching the draft yesterday it's clear the emphasis is on being able to shoot the ball and finish through contact. I think Ayo can be a first round pick but he isnt there yet. He made the right choice to return this season even though after the first few players imo this was a fairly weak draft. He will need to sit down and assess things again next year just like he did this season. I think he will improve and he will need to to be a first round pick. I am not sure that is written in stone just yet.
Beg to differ. Barring a disaster, Ayo's going 1st round. The only question is when (e.g., 11th, 18th). Yes, there are things he needs to improve, but this season is his last of college ball.
 
Western Suburbs
I logged on to my ticket account and I noticed that my sideline men’s season basketball tickets are listed for purchase. The tickets are $485 each.
 
Austin
I logged on to my ticket account and I noticed that my sideline men’s season basketball tickets are listed for purchase. The tickets are $485 each.
$485 for a sideline seats for the whole season?
 
Beg to differ. Barring a disaster, Ayo's going 1st round. The only question is when (e.g., 11th, 18th). Yes, there are things he needs to improve, but this season is his last of college ball.
I imagine Bol Bol thought the same thing. I mean it was Bol Bols last year and #3 rated in his class but he was 'nt a first round pick. I think Ayo can get there but in a relatively weak draft this year he was not considered a first round talent but he can be if he improves. I think he will and he can be a mid to late first round pick. I want Ayo to be a lottery pick. I dont think he that type of explosive athlete to be a lottery pick like most lottery pick PGs are.. You must have thought he would have been this year or he is good enough already. His advisors clearly advised him that he needs to improve in order to be a first round pick. He likely will be a first round pick if he improves but that state it as fact is really a guess.
He will be great to have this season and at the end of this season I dont think he will just go pro without going through the exact same process as this one. I hope he improves and gets to fulfill his dreams. He can certainly go pro next year but imo to be a first round pick he must get better.
 
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Likes: krushdad
Ayo returning is a big win for everybody, after watching the draft there is no doubt Ayo will be a lottery pick. Nothing with help BU more than having a fighting Illini called on draft day.
 
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