Illini Basketball 2020-2021

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#151      
When was the last time we were ranked ahead of Duke in the pre season poll. We should be ranked ahead of Wisconsin.
 
#154      
Trying to ascertain how much our orange lens are affecting our judgement of the talent on this team I took the starters from 1988-89 and 2004-05 and made a lineup. Result was Dee, Deron, Ayo, Nick, and Kofi. No one else made the second team. I am sure others will have different opinions and our frosh might be considered very differently by time they leave. Hopefully the rest will be considered differently by the end of the season. (Did think Nick Anderson would be great as the 4th guard.)
 
#155      
Supposedly he's got an offensive skill set to play the 3 with a good outside shot and the ability to slash to the hoop. If he's got the quickness to defend an opposing 3 he'd also be a great mismatch.
It doesn’t matter, with the surplus of guards we have the opportunity is at the 4. In theory, on offense 3/4 is the same. On defense & rebounding we need help at the 4.
 
#156      
Trying to ascertain how much our orange lens are affecting our judgement of the talent on this team I took the starters from 1988-89 and 2004-05 and made a lineup. Result was Dee, Deron, Ayo, Nick, and Kofi. No one else made the second team. I am sure others will have different opinions and our frosh might be considered very differently by time they leave. Hopefully the rest will be considered differently by the end of the season. (Did think Nick Anderson would be great as the 4th guard.)
No second team? I’d take my chances with Gill, Battle/Powell, Head, Augustine/Hamilton, Bardo against that 5. Might not be better, but would be more than competitive.
 
#157      
No second team? I’d take my chances with Gill, Battle/Powell, Head, Augustine/Hamilton, Bardo against that 5. Might not be better, but would be more than competitive.
My point was no current players would make the second team not that there were not other great players on those squads. Is there any player you just named who you wouldn’t love to have on this team?
 
#158      

Steelyunk

Tobacco Road
Trying to ascertain how much our orange lens are affecting our judgement of the talent on this team I took the starters from 1988-89 and 2004-05 and made a lineup. Result was Dee, Deron, Ayo, Nick, and Kofi. No one else made the second team. I am sure others will have different opinions and our frosh might be considered very differently by time they leave. Hopefully the rest will be considered differently by the end of the season. (Did think Nick Anderson would be great as the 4th guard.)
The orange lens is real. Very real. But i think we're so starved for success that it's really understandable. As to your point - it makes you think. We're excited that we've got a deep team. But I feel like ONE star can take a team pretty far - see: Ja Morant. Having two legit NBA prospects in your starting 5 is Kentucky/Duke territory. They compete for a final four almost every year - they expect it. We don't, so we're wildly exuberant just to have the conversation. Keep the Kool-Aid coming.
 
#159      
Trying to ascertain how much our orange lens are affecting our judgement of the talent on this team I took the starters from 1988-89 and 2004-05 and made a lineup. Result was Dee, Deron, Ayo, Nick, and Kofi. No one else made the second team. I am sure others will have different opinions and our frosh might be considered very differently by time they leave. Hopefully the rest will be considered differently by the end of the season. (Did think Nick Anderson would be great as the 4th guard.)

Heh, I mentioned that I was tempering my expectations to top-10, after someone said we were top-5, and promptly got haters jumping on me.

But yeah, I think we have some question marks, moreso than either of those teams, which had multiple NBA guys, and both had at least one All star. Both those teams made it to #1 in the national polls during the season. This team definitely has high-end talent, but so do other National title contenders. I think they'll need to be more than the sum of the parts to make it to a 1 seed. JMO
 
#160      

GrayGhost77

Centennial, CO
I look at last season and saw very clear progression both in team play and individual player development as the season went along. Now another year older and stronger, with the core returning who have chemistry with each other, plus some very solid newcomers to add a lot of depth - I see no reason why this shouldn't be a dominating team on most nights. I think the addition last year of Gentry was huge, as he along with Brad make a dynamite strategic coaching duo (and of course OA is a big man whisperer). If the season happens as planned, I think this is going to be the most fun Illini team to watch in a a very long time - since 2005.
 
#161      
I don't know where we will actually land in the official preseason top 25, but we have been in more than a couple top tens so far. If it came to pass, this would actually be our NINTH time being ranked in the top ten preseason. While there have been a few disappointments historically, I would certainly take some of these results!

2004-05: #5 ... National Championship Game
2001-02: #3 ... Sweet Sixteen
2000-01: #8 ... Elite Eight
1989-90: #8 ... First Round ... yikes
1988-89: #9 ... Final Four
1985-86: #7 ... Second Round ... yikes
1984-85: #2 ... Sweet Sixteen
1962-63: #8 ... Elite Eight
 
#162      
My point was no current players would make the second team not that there were not other great players on those squads. Is there any player you just named who you wouldn’t love to have on this team?
Ok, so that makes more sense and is more than fair. In fact I would say I confirmed your view with my choices. Both of those teams have the benefit of hindsight and they were good enough to take us to the final four. For us to be as good as those teams, we probably need a couple of Trent, Curbello, Miller, or someone else to be considered as worthy of at least your 2nd team at the end of the year.
 
#163      
The comparison of these teams is always fun, and I have enjoyed the banter on WDWS comparing 05 and 89 when there has been nothing else to talk about. Frankly I would not yet put Ayo head of Battle or Gill, although we can be optimistic about this year. Kofi is maybe a stronger pick, but only because those teams all lacked a true 5. But for those teams' style, I'm not sure I would put Kofi ahead of Augie or Hamilton, but you could certainly make the case.

89 and 05 were not deep teams. If they were 89 would not have missed Kendall Gill in the middle of the year, and would not have suffered when Lowell was hobbled. Would have been nice in 05 to have been able to throw some more bodies onto May. Next years team could be deeper. So optimistically, we have two super stars, and will be deep. Certainly some more threats will help. I think you have to put Trent in there, he showed us he can play offense his freshman year, and last year worked on D. I think Miller will have his moments. The real wild cards in my opinion are the transfers, Grandison and Hutcherson. If Trent, Grandison and Hutcherson need to be game planned against, we will be more than OK.

An Illini team that is more similar to what I think this team will be than the two final four teams is the 01 team.
1596646582442.png

Legit team, number 1 NCAA seed, lost to Arizona in the rubber game of the season series in the regional final, and got Billy his dream job. This team goes REALLY, REALLY deep. Hopefully we will again. Kofi looks good against the final four teams, but how many minutes does he pull from Griffin and Cook as a soph. And Ayo would certainly play, but how again how many minutes would he pull form Bradford, Frank and Serg. And then somehow you have to deal with Arch, Krup and Lucas (see above comment about throwing some bodies onto May). Hopefully by the end of the year we see how this years team compares with this classic, one of the great Illinois teams that is lost in the 89 v. 05 debate. If our guys step up to where you could see playing time with this bunch, we will be just fine.
 
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#164      
Trying to ascertain how much our orange lens are affecting our judgement of the talent on this team I took the starters from 1988-89 and 2004-05 and made a lineup. Result was Dee, Deron, Ayo, Nick, and Kofi. No one else made the second team. I am sure others will have different opinions and our frosh might be considered very differently by time they leave. Hopefully the rest will be considered differently by the end of the season. (Did think Nick Anderson would be great as the 4th guard.)
I think that based on the way we were playing going into the BTT suggests that we could have made a deep run in the tournament. Now that we have Ayo and Kofi back and presumab;y will be somewhat better year over year the big question is what is the balance of the rest of the team in losing Feliz, Griffin and Kipper and gaining Miller, Curbelo, Hutcherson, Grandison and Hawkins. If the newcomers outplay the departed then we shoul go far!
 
#165      
I haven’t really been paying attention to the schedule, but is the season, as of right now, still supposed to start on time?

Even though we don’t want it pushed back, that would really be beneficial for our freshman in the weight room and the playbook.
 
#166      

illini80

Forgottonia
I haven’t really been paying attention to the schedule, but is the season, as of right now, still supposed to start on time?

Even though we don’t want it pushed back, that would really be beneficial for our freshman in the weight room and the playbook.
Nothings been decided so as of now the schedule stands. If the football season crashes, they will start looking at basketball pretty quickly.
 
#167      
I think that based on the way we were playing going into the BTT suggests that we could have made a deep run in the tournament. Now that we have Ayo and Kofi back and presumab;y will be somewhat better year over year the big question is what is the balance of the rest of the team in losing Feliz, Griffin and Kipper and gaining Miller, Curbelo, Hutcherson, Grandison and Hawkins. If the newcomers outplay the departed then we shoul go far!
Think there is a lot of upside possible on this team. Not discounting Giorgi being a star 4. He was asked to make a complete change in position and responsibilities last year and struggled to adapt. He was a star as a frosh and may be again. Same is true of Trent who carried the team his freshman year. Then you have Hutchison called the best athlete on the team and Grandison who some thought would have started last year if eligible. Then you add three frosh who seem extremely talented. My orange colored glasses have extremely fine vision, thank you. 🙄
 
#168      
The comparison of these teams is always fun, and I have enjoyed the banter on WDWS comparing 05 and 89 when there has been nothing else to talk about. Frankly I would not yet put Ayo head of Battle or Gill, although we can be optimistic about this year. Kofi is maybe a stronger pick, but only because those teams all lacked a true 5. But for those teams' style, I'm not sure I would put Kofi ahead of Augie or Hamilton, but you could certainly make the case.

89 and 05 were not deep teams. If they were 89 would not have missed Kendall Gill in the middle of the year, and would not have suffered when Lowell was hobbled. Would have been nice in 05 to have been able to throw some more bodies onto May. Next years team could be deeper. So optimistically, we have two super stars, and will be deep. Certainly some more threats will help. I think you have to put Trent in there, he showed us he can play offense his freshman year, and last year worked on D. I think Miller will have his moments. The real wild cards in my opinion are the transfers, Grandison and Hutcherson. If Trent, Grandison and Hutcherson need to be game planned against, we will be more than OK.

An Illini team that is more similar to what I think this team will be than the two final four teams is the 01 team.
View attachment 6247
Legit team, number 1 NCAA seed

Tough to compare groups and eras, but from a college perspective, I keep thinking Kofi is much, much better for our roster than we might give him credit if we're looking at draft projections. He may have doubters there, but he's oh so good at the college level. Teams that had the personnel and game planned for him had success limiting his offensive game, but that was against a freshman. I expect he'll be even more of a load this season. He has a special combination of defensive skills, smart play, and physicality. The strides he made in his first year as an Illini were astonishing --never would have imagined his transformation.

I keep coming back to our outside shooting though. Illinois was dead last in the conference, and we lost AG, our best 3pt shooter. It's such a big part of the college game, and I go back and forth on whether we can overcome that.
 
#169      

illini55

The Villages, FL
The comparison of these teams is always fun, and I have enjoyed the banter on WDWS comparing 05 and 89 when there has been nothing else to talk about. Frankly I would not yet put Ayo head of Battle or Gill, although we can be optimistic about this year. Kofi is maybe a stronger pick, but only because those teams all lacked a true 5. But for those teams' style, I'm not sure I would put Kofi ahead of Augie or Hamilton, but you could certainly make the case.

89 and 05 were not deep teams. If they were 89 would not have missed Kendall Gill in the middle of the year, and would not have suffered when Lowell was hobbled. Would have been nice in 05 to have been able to throw some more bodies onto May. Next years team could be deeper. So optimistically, we have two super stars, and will be deep. Certainly some more threats will help. I think you have to put Trent in there, he showed us he can play offense his freshman year, and last year worked on D. I think Miller will have his moments. The real wild cards in my opinion are the transfers, Grandison and Hutcherson. If Trent, Grandison and Hutcherson need to be game planned against, we will be more than OK.

An Illini team that is more similar to what I think this team will be than the two final four teams is the 01 team.
View attachment 6247
Legit team, number 1 NCAA seed, lost to Arizona in the rubber game of the season series in the regional final, and got Billy his dream job. This team goes REALLY, REALLY deep. Hopefully we will again. Kofi looks good against the final four teams, but how many minutes does he pull from Griffin and Cook as a soph. And Ayo would certainly play, but how again how many minutes would he pull form Bradford, Frank and Serg. And then somehow you have to deal with Arch, Krup and Lucas (see above comment about throwing some bodies onto May). Hopefully by the end of the year we see how this years team compares with this classic, one of the great Illinois teams that is lost in the 89 v. 05 debate. If our guys step up to where you could see playing time with this bunch, we will be just fine.
This years team is MUCH more talented at the back end. Melton, Mast, Cross, Thomas, even Jerrance wouldn't sniff the floor this year, ever. Smith would play about 5 minutes a game, if that.
 
#170      
"89 and 05 were not deep teams"

Strongly disagree about the 1989 squad. The tenth guy on that squad was Andy Kaufmann, who ultimately finished his career at #4 on the Illini's all-time scoring list. The reserves also included Marcus Liberty (to this day the highest-ranked recruit to don an Illini uniform) and Larry Smith (a very effective backup PG, who had been Illinois HS POY in some surveys). Not to mention four starters who got drafted to the NBA, three of them in the first round.
 
#171      
Comparisons are fun ... but its not fair to compare this group before the season begins to the 89 & 05 groups after their seasons ... March Kofi was way better than Nov Kofi. a better comparison would at similar points in the season. In Aug 1988: had just had two disappointing tourney finishes - Austin Peay in 87 and Villanova in 88 (we were 3 seed, had large lead, and missed 6 or 7 1-1s to blow it, shooting under 50% FT). Both 89 and 05 had high expectations going into seasons (Top 10) but both had questions and issues to be on top. Big 10 was stacked in 89. There were teams nationally just as good of returners, recruits, ... What is consistent between 89, 05 & 21 is all the articles (Tate was younger then) emphasized how hard they worked, how hungry they were, the intensity, and chemistry/working together from April-Nov and then in season Nov-April. I recall 1988 articles on Gill's workouts, Battle's ... they sound pretty similar in intensity to Ayo & Co 2020, last season and upcoming season. 89 & 05 had the opportunity to be special and they made it happen. 21 team has that chance, at this point that's all they and we can ask for.
 
#172      
The comparison of these teams is always fun, and I have enjoyed the banter on WDWS comparing 05 and 89 when there has been nothing else to talk about. Frankly I would not yet put Ayo head of Battle or Gill, although we can be optimistic about this year. Kofi is maybe a stronger pick, but only because those teams all lacked a true 5. But for those teams' style, I'm not sure I would put Kofi ahead of Augie or Hamilton, but you could certainly make the case.

89 and 05 were not deep teams. If they were 89 would not have missed Kendall Gill in the middle of the year, and would not have suffered when Lowell was hobbled. Would have been nice in 05 to have been able to throw some more bodies onto May. Next years team could be deeper. So optimistically, we have two super stars, and will be deep. Certainly some more threats will help. I think you have to put Trent in there, he showed us he can play offense his freshman year, and last year worked on D. I think Miller will have his moments. The real wild cards in my opinion are the transfers, Grandison and Hutcherson. If Trent, Grandison and Hutcherson need to be game planned against, we will be more than OK.

An Illini team that is more similar to what I think this team will be than the two final four teams is the 01 team.
View attachment 6247
Legit team, number 1 NCAA seed, lost to Arizona in the rubber game of the season series in the regional final, and got Billy his dream job. This team goes REALLY, REALLY deep. Hopefully we will again. Kofi looks good against the final four teams, but how many minutes does he pull from Griffin and Cook as a soph. And Ayo would certainly play, but how again how many minutes would he pull form Bradford, Frank and Serg. And then somehow you have to deal with Arch, Krup and Lucas (see above comment about throwing some bodies onto May). Hopefully by the end of the year we see how this years team compares with this classic, one of the great Illinois teams that is lost in the 89 v. 05 debate. If our guys step up to where you could see playing time with this bunch, we will be just fine.

The only guy I can't say Ayo is better than is Frank. Ayo would have played 30 minutes on the '01 team. Kofi would've played 22-28 minutes in '01. Cookie could always slide to the 4. Kofi is a major force, especially on D and the boards.
 
#173      
I love this team on paper, and have high expectations but 7 players are freshman, or haven’t really played in a game including BBV.

I don’t think I’m ready to compare this teams depth to the past teams yet. If all these guys pan out as we all hope, then, yes I think this might be one of the deepest teams. I don’t know if that’s realistic.

I’d be ecstatic with a solid 8 man rotation with 3 guys shooting 35%+ from deep.
 
#174      
Tough to compare groups and eras, but from a college perspective, I keep thinking Kofi is much, much better for our roster than we might give him credit if we're looking at draft projections. He may have doubters there, but he's oh so good at the college level. Teams that had the personnel and game planned for him had success limiting his offensive game, but that was against a freshman. I expect he'll be even more of a load this season. He has a special combination of defensive skills, smart play, and physicality. The strides he made in his first year as an Illini were astonishing --never would have imagined his transformation.

I keep coming back to our outside shooting though. Illinois was dead last in the conference, and we lost AG, our best 3pt shooter. It's such a big part of the college game, and I go back and forth on whether we can overcome that.

We lost Griffin for sure, but we gain supposed shooters in Adam Miller, Hutcherson, Grandison, and Hawkins/BBV. I also don't expect Trent to shoot as bad as last year. There is also the possibility of extended range in Kofi and Ayo since that is one of the main things to improve draft stock. As a whole, we lose Griffin and gain 3 shooters and more. We should be much better there. I am mainly worried about losing toughness of Feliz.
 
#175      
Tough to compare groups and eras, but from a college perspective, I keep thinking Kofi is much, much better for our roster than we might give him credit if we're looking at draft projections. He may have doubters there, but he's oh so good at the college level. Teams that had the personnel and game planned for him had success limiting his offensive game, but that was against a freshman. I expect he'll be even more of a load this season. He has a special combination of defensive skills, smart play, and physicality. The strides he made in his first year as an Illini were astonishing --never would have imagined his transformation.

I keep coming back to our outside shooting though. Illinois was dead last in the conference, and we lost AG, our best 3pt shooter. It's such a big part of the college game, and I go back and forth on whether we can overcome that.

I totally agree on Kofi. If he plays with confidence and aggression on offense, he could very well become the most dominant center in the country. His combination of size and athleticism is extremely rare. He was a really good defensive player already last year. He is physical without fouling and pretty much singlehandedly took us from one of the worst rebounding teams in NCAA (295th in Rebound%) to one of the best (10th). If he uses his significant physical advantages more effectively on offense, the Illini may not even need to hit 3's. They will, however, get a LOT of open looks.
 
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