Illini Football 2018

Status
Not open for further replies.
#176      

APS iMBA

Urbana, IL
JW's first group of hand-picked head coaches are going to be around for a long, long time.

I look forward to seeing future success from them. I like what I'm seeing from our new coaches, but its not like our competition is sitting still either. Our performance, marketing, recruiting, and viral social media campaigns (#LittyvILLe) all help us to pull ahead of the pack. It just takes time. :illinois:
 
#179      

Illiniaaron

Geneseo, IL
Good! There should be rumbling. Donors should be upset. Thank god someone still cares. We really should expect to be better this year, and we shouldn't just lay down and accept a wasteland 2-10 again.

Having said that, it remains a fact that Lovie ain't getting fired under any circumstances.
I agree with you that we should expect to see some improvement this year. I would like to see at least four wins overall with two in the conference. And not to be road kill in the losses. Another 2-10 season with a bunch of blowout losses would certainly make even the staunchest Lovie defender start to wonder. I just cant see any scenario in which Lovie would be fired until after the 2019 season, and I would pretty much let him finish his five years unless things really de-rail. My big fear is that if Smith can't turn this around, it might never happen.
 
#180      

Deleted member 654622

D
Guest
Good IL football talk on the Werner show today
 
#181      
Remember your freshman year, when you had to run scout team offense or defense against the varsity squad? Then, your sophomore year, you got a little a little smarter, bigger, stronger and faster, But you were still getting beat up. Junior year, you were confident and senior year a stud. At Illinois, under Beckman and Thomas, we've been the JV squad against varsity for many years. That's what Lovie's been up against. This takes times and real fans know it.

When these kids become men and are upperclassmen, we will have the best Illinois Football for years to come

Remember when Theo did this?
 
Last edited:
#182      

BZuppke

Plainfield
There are ‘known’ unknowns. Once you get past tOSU, scUM and PSU, no one is a giant killer. Injuries, failure to gel as a team etc can create surprise teams good and bad. There is a chance everything clicks for us and we have an unexpectedly great season - dare I say 8 wins or something. No one will predict this, but it’s happened before (1999 comes to mind).
 
#183      
There are ‘known’ unknowns. Once you get past tOSU, scUM and PSU, no one is a giant killer. Injuries, failure to gel as a team etc can create surprise teams good and bad. There is a chance everything clicks for us and we have an unexpectedly great season - dare I say 8 wins or something. No one will predict this, but it’s happened before (1999 comes to mind).

Although I would never make the argument that we would win 8 games.

I don't think this is that much of a stretch.With a mediocre offense, last season could have gone much different. I think we could have potentially flipped 5 games: Iowa, Rutgers, Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana. Since our biggest unknown is QB, just considering our QB has one more year of experience, training, film time, etc. And our defense should be better, I would not be surprised with a bowl game.

Having said that, I am expecting 3 wins.
 
#184      

breadman

Herndon, VA
There are ‘known’ unknowns. Once you get past tOSU, scUM and PSU, no one is a giant killer. Injuries, failure to gel as a team etc can create surprise teams good and bad. There is a chance everything clicks for us and we have an unexpectedly great season - dare I say 8 wins or something. No one will predict this, but it’s happened before (1999 comes to mind).


The offense, from the OC on down to the last offensive player. I don't care what RS did at AZ. He has to learn who all his new players are on this team, what they can and cannot do, and then teach them a new offensive scheme. The offense is the key to this year's success, and it is a big unknown that is known. Know what I mean?
 
#185      
The offense, from the OC on down to the last offensive player. I don't care what RS did at AZ. He has to learn who all his new players are on this team, what they can and cannot do, and then teach them a new offensive scheme. The offense is the key to this year's success, and it is a big unknown that is known. Know what I mean?

I think you know that I know that you know what we don't know.
 
#186      

Dbell1981

Decatur, IL
Remember your freshman year, when you had to run scout team offense or defense against the varsity squad? Then, your sophomore year, you got a little a little smarter, bigger, stronger and faster, But you were still getting beat up. Junior year, you were confident and senior year a stud. At Illinois, under Beckman and Thomas, we've been the JV squad against varsity for many years. That's what Lovie's been up against. This takes times and real fans know it.

When these kids become men and are upperclassmen, we will have the best Illinois Football for years to come

Remember when Theo did this?

That's what I'm talking about! (We can't stay garbage forever) as if they(current coaches)created this mess. They don't want to give them time to fix it because Whitman didn't pick who they wanted. The OLD staff are the ones who brought in a bunch of softies in both major sports. A huge culture change is gonna take a whole clean slate and then some. Let's revisit this conversation in 4 or 5 years after both Whitman hires have a class or 2 graduate. The tree doesn't produce great fruit until it's been in the ground a few years.
 
#189      
That's what I'm talking about! (We can't stay garbage forever) as if they(current coaches)created this mess. They don't want to give them time to fix it because Whitman didn't pick who they wanted. The OLD staff are the ones who brought in a bunch of softies in both major sports. A huge culture change is gonna take a whole clean slate and then some. Let's revisit this conversation in 4 or 5 years after both Whitman hires have a class or 2 graduate. The tree doesn't produce great fruit until it's been in the ground a few years.

We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year. The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.
 
#190      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year. The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.

Totally disagree.
 
#191      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year. The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.
Your sample size is two seasons for Lovie, and he inherited a dumpster fire. I believe at least our past 3 coaches had as bad or worse records after 2 years than him, so it really means nothing. A couple of those guys also took us to BCS bowl games. They just couldn't sustain it. We'll see if Lovie does better.
 
#192      

breadman

Herndon, VA
We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year. The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.


Wow, just wow to this assessment. My guidance at this point young grasshopper, is to keep the Lovie faith and you shall be rewarded. This is what we know.
 
#193      

Neidermeyer

Faber College
We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year. The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.

When Lovie succeeds I will come back and post. Keep the faith BRucks!!
 
#194      

Deleted member 654622

D
Guest
BRucks, are you one of these donors friends of thunderwear??????
 
#195      
BRucks, are you one of these donors friends of thunderwear??????

I laughed out loud at this comment. BRucks is sharing his perspective, which I totally disagree, but is not uncommon, particularly for people that just follow the statistics. The average fan doesn’t understand that cubit didn’t have a contract or an AD and struggled to recruit. It didn’t even show in his season, it’s showin now that we have the largest number of true freshmen playing.

But then oftentimes people point to losses like Iowa or McGees firing, suggesting it wasn’t the players but the offensive coordinator. People point to harbaugh or any of the other coaches that step in and start winning immediately, for many, the record is a sign that Lovie won’t work. Not a sign that he talent on our team is mid-level Mac talent at best. And we didn’t have playmakers and weaknesses all over the field. I could go on and on because I am in these conversation quite a bit
 
#196      
Your sample size is two seasons for Lovie, and he inherited a dumpster fire. I believe at least our past 3 coaches had as bad or worse records after 2 years than him, so it really means nothing. A couple of those guys also took us to BCS bowl games. They just couldn't sustain it. We'll see if Lovie does better.

Correct. Beckman, Zook and Turner all made bowls in their third years, as did Tepper, Mackovic and White before them. Even so, Beckman lasted only one additional year, Zook 4+ and Turner 6 (Mackovic 2 and then moved to Texas, Tepper 3 then fired, White 6 then fired). Smith's dumpster fire was not unlike those of his three predecessors. The two seasons prior to Smith's tenure produced a record of 11-14. For Beckman it was 14-12. For Zook 4-19 and for Turner 7-14-1. Smith would be 65 if he did return for six more years. Before that happens he will need better results. Better recruiting. Better record. Better attendance. Can it happen? Sure. Odds aren't good, though.
 
#197      
We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year.

Facts, all. There is no reason to sugarcoat or forgive 5-19. We've been terrible.

The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.

If we don't turn it around, he certainly won't be. But we're all well acquainted with the reasons for optimism going forward, and I think it would be awfully shocking if this era never even shows a pulse. The pulse is coming. Let's go grab it. :shield:
 
#198      
Correct. Beckman, Zook and Turner all made bowls in their third years, as did Tepper, Mackovic and White before them. Even so, Beckman lasted only one additional year, Zook 4+ and Turner 6 (Mackovic 2 and then moved to Texas, Tepper 3 then fired, White 6 then fired). Smith's dumpster fire was not unlike those of his three predecessors. The two seasons prior to Smith's tenure produced a record of 11-14. For Beckman it was 14-12. For Zook 4-19 and for Turner 7-14-1. Smith would be 65 if he did return for six more years. Before that happens he will need better results. Better recruiting. Better record. Better attendance. Can it happen? Sure. Odds aren't good, though.

I don't disagree that Lovie will need to show improvement, but I disagree that Smith's dumpster fire wasn't worse than his predecessors.

None of those coaches had stretches where so few players were drafted. Also, I am not aware of a time when we had to fire a coach before a season started, no AD, and an interim coach without a contract for as long as we did prior to Lovie. Our recruiting in that time was awful and we were literally losing players to MAC programs. Add to that when Lovie got to campus, we didn't have playmakers on either side of the ball and he arrived after the Spring Game would have happened. If you want to look at a comparable season, I would not look at this years, but look at next years. This will not be his 3rd full year as coach. His year will be up around March. I think we will see considerable improvement in year 4.

And, Lovie's recruiting has been some of the best that Illinois has seen.

Will Lovie be here in 5 years if he doesn't qualify for a bowl 2019-2020? It is doubtful. Will he be here if he doesn't qualify this season? Barring something unforeseen, Lovie will certainly be here through the end of the 2019-2020 season. And, I would be surprised if we don't make a bowl that season.
 
#199      

Deleted member 654622

D
Guest
I laughed out loud at this comment.

Literally the reason I post on this board!
tenor.gif
 
#200      
We've been playing football at Illinois for 127 years. In that time, Jim Valek is the only coach with a worse record than Smith and he was brought in to clean up the slush fund mess. Smith has won just over 20% of his games. Cubit won 42% and was fired. Beckman won 32% and was fired. Zook 40% - fired. Turner 38% - fired. Tupper 45% - fired. We've had one season since WWII where attendance was worse than this past year. The chances of Smith being here in 4 or 5 years aren't great.



For a better comparison:

Turner won 18% in his first two seasons, and he was here 8 years.

Zook won 17% in his first two seasons, and he was here 7 years.

Beckman won 25% in his first two seasons.

Not that I think this number means much of anything (no way was Beckman the best coach of those three), but let’s keep in mind that Lovie is already ahead of Turner and Zook.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.