Illinois 77, Ohio 75 Postgame

[BRucks]

Will DaMonte and Trent as 4 year seniors get another year of eligibility if they so desire?

If Underwood wants them back. I can't imagine that he wouldn't, but it isn't automatic, The school can refuse to take them back.

 

[altenberger22]

Damonte’s jumper improvement reminds me of Luther Heads.....

Agreed. And there's an even longer list of comparables, going back a few more years:
* Luther Head
* Kevin Turner
* Kendall Gill
* Tony Wysinger

The switch just seems to go on (likely the result of taking 1000+ shots a day with a shooting coach during the off-season). Hoping we get to see two full years of the improved shot from DMW!

 

[scaggs22]

Most people have listed main gripes but Holy hell Kofi. How many times are you going to bring the ball low after a pass/reb and get it knocked out of your hands??? That happened constantly today and was driving me nuts. Happy to survive.

Totally agree with you. Georgi has always had the same issue. If you look at Garza, this guy keeps the ball high and goes up with it from there. Kofi and Georgi go down low first which opens them up to getting the ball stripped which happens often. They have had plenty of time to figure that out themselves, to be coached about preventing that, but it continues to happen. Extremely frustrating!!

 

[hoopsfan47]

So many things pointing to the fact that the Illini were lucky to win today. One of the major factors was free throw shooting where they were a paltry 62.5% hitting 15 of 24. What makes the Illini even more lucky was that Ohio hit an even worse percentage of 44% hitting only 4 of 9. The foul disparity was not huge, 18-14, but Ohio did more of theirs on shooters. The free throw disparity was immense but not surprising as the Illini won the boards 45 to 25 and had a decided team speed advantage. Ohio used their fouls wisely though and took advantage of sloppy Illini ball-handling and passing to win the turnover stat 16-7. What that shows is the Illinois had a decided advantage in speed and athleticism but Ohio made up for it in skill and saavy. Result, a very close game that could have been won by either team.

Last season, we saw the Illini slow their game and take better care of the ball in B1G play. This season, they have started by playing at lightning speed resulting in many turnovers but taking advantage of a lot of depth. However, if they cannot learn to cut the TO rate, they will have to slow their play and lose some of the advantage they have in team speed. We have yet to see any full, 3/4, or half court press defense...a hallmark of any success BU had his first couple of years...but also a thorn leading to easy buckets due to the overplay philosophy...which was a disaster in B1G play. Pressing could end up being a plus due to team depth...we will have to wait and see.

 

[BigMuddyMonster]

whew, well lets start with the negatives. Absolutely exposed by a crafty stretch 4. Can't believe Vander Plas made those threes as the game wore on. He was an absolute handful for us and neither Damonte or Giorgi had an answer for him. Along those lines a properly operated pick and roll system is still one of the hardest to defend and we certainly did not have the answer. Much credit to the threesome of Preston/Wilson/Vander Plas. It is easy chalk this up to what we weren't able to do but credit must go to Ohio and what they did. Their energy, particularly in the 1st half, was much higher than ours. Couple that with a 5-12 start from the line and sloppiness with the ball and you have a recipe for an upset. The MAC is a pretty strong mid-major but I can't imagine they are many tougher sides then this one in the that league. Preston was a true star tonight. Very high IQ and so good with his crafty floaters and short touch shots.

Now, after the heart rate slows down, I can see some positives from this game. As the pressure mounted and the score looked grim(down 8 and down 4 with 1:30 left) and this team remained tremendously composed(I on the other hand was under going an impromptu stress test). Free throws cleaned-up(10 for the last 12 and that was with Trent intentionally missing one at the end, wouldn't have made that call myself) down the stretch, massive 3 pointers by Ayo/Trent/damonte. Huge mid range jumpers late on by Ace and Ayo. I have to chalk this up to Ayo's leadership, this guy is a stud. Last year he carried the team late about half a dozen times and once again he comes up aces. Big mid-range jumper late, Huge 3 pointer than fouled at the rim and buried the fts. All this with putting out a huge effort or the defensive end chasing Preston all over the court. Preston was not guarding Ayo for the most part. The effort and talent is monumental. Ayo could be my favorite Illini of all-time. He will join my all-time backcourt with Dee and Nick Anderson.

Speaking of favorites, if you are not thrilled with DMW I'm not sure if you are human. His three 3s tonight came at absolutely the right time and cannot be discounted. He was not able to stop Vander Plas down low tonight but he kept battling and literally we lose the game without him on the offensive side. His rebirth halfway through last year has been a joy to witness.

Interesting tactics by Underwood tonight by not adjusting the defense in terms of schemes. He tried many different combinations but no zones/presses/double teams. He seemed determined to force our presence on the game as was going to go down with the ship if we had to. It is as if he was saying, they should have to deal with us not the other way around. Ultimately they we forced ourselves on the game and did win the game but there are tons to learn and work on before Baylor. If we make our Free throws and clean up the turnovers this game is a different story. Despite struggling with those two areas they still got the job done.

What a game!

You seem to have every single thought I had about the game. You put it very well also. It was very surprising that Underwood didn’t make any changes to combat that pick and roll. They exploited it all night.

 

[Efrem Winters fan]

Count me in the camp of people who are not so concerned about this game. We came off of a couple of laughers and played a very good team that was both prepared and motivated. We did NOT play a bad game. As BU pointed out after the game we made some bad unforced turnovers - that is what bothered me the most too. We shot free throw poorly. I WATCHED this game and can say that Preston is a STUD! His play really freed some players up due to the amount of attention we had to pay him. He made some tough shots as did others at times. This was a nail biter but guys stepped up and finished this one and that's the biggest takeaway for me. The only other thing that bothered me is that we got them into foul trouble and should have been driving more to capitalize on this but Ohio stayed at 7 fouls for a long time....

 

[freebird6]

FREEBIRD6! So glad to see you back! It’s been awhile...hope you are well

I am well and more than happy to get off the motorcycle just in time to pick back up on College hoops. Now that we are never in person I can't go to HS games or trip down to Hargrave to watch my kid coach I have a feeling my 3 TV sets in the living room and 2 computers are going to be getting a work out. . Watched the game over a Whatsapp connection with my Illini friends up in Barrington. We talked about setting up Zoom watch groups for Illini games but too many loud idjuts We still may give it a try if we can mute the homers and less hoops astute Alums. Nail biter for sure. Fun to watch the game thread and fanbase this early with their bipolar mood swings vacillating between jumping for joy or off the top of the nearest tower.

Interesting conversations. BVP was 1-5 yesterday from 3 and his game today did not reflect his career sub 30% 3 ball mark. Roderick was 6/9 yesterday and has taken a quantum leap this summer but the Defensive pressure kept him in check so I think Underwood staying with the plan is not a lack of adjustment. It was making someone else beat you. Roderick buried the one open look he had. Preston had a good game and is a great kid with a good story, I would not be surprised if he gets a nod to enter the draft or that he would be recruited as a grad transfer as is becoming the case when Mid kids show skills. I was surprised BVP did not leave as a grad transfer this year. Cockburn is looking good early.His size and feet make him a load. After facing the BIG centers last year he should be battle tested and experienced. I like what BU did with the 2 bigs together in the 2nd half. I like the push I see in the Illini. Head up and advancing the ball fassst Can't leave Williams. Just kept saying that after BVP left him the first time...and the second ...and then again. He is a capable scorer. There are lots of good pieces here. Fletch has them cut/strong and Coach has his system in place which both go hand in hand to prepare players and give them great confidence as they believe in their bodies and the process. . For all the negativity, folks should realize this is one of the really good squads going back to the mid 70s when I moved to Chicago and started following them in earnest. Ohio had a good showing while Boals is building his program and recruiting hard, but he will have to be happy with the experience and build off of it the rest of the season.

Thanks for the shout. Kind of thought I was going to fly under the radar.

 

[Butters]

From my perspective, the most concerning thing about the game today was how short the bench got. 7 is a dangerously small rotation, and that's with 2 freshman who haven't faced big the level competition yet.

 

[KevinC]

Good. I don't believe it deters MSU's recruits. Izzo and BW rip into their players because they're imbuing toughness and they care. Curbelo doesn't appear to be a guy who's going to fall apart under that kind of scrutiny. And do we want someone on the floor for us who will? Perhaps I'm old school but when my coach ripped me a new one it was because he cared about my performance. The worst thing that could happen was if he didn't get on my case or, worse, ignored me.

Mark Smith apparently didn't fit. That's unfortunate for him but fine with me. Each to his own.

Do you really think that they were trying to imbue toughness? I think that was the last thing on their mind at the time. They were just angry and lost it.

 

[rtbritt]

Depends what you mean by “best shooters” in nation. Luther was top ten in 3s made (as well as attempted) his senior year, but not sure his 41% would have put as one of the best. Still, point taken — though Damonte is 6 for 9 from 3 thus far. Interestingly, Luther’s 2-pt shooting percentage dropped each year.

Eh I think we are pretty much in agreement overall. I was curious about who else was in the top 10 of 3s made, but wasn't able to find it.

I'd guess if you compare the shooters who are in the top 10-15 in 3s made, some probably shoot 45-48 percent, but some probably are in that 38-44 range, similar to Head also.

On a really good team, making as many 3s as he did (I don't know the number), at 41%, he should probably be called one of the top shooters in the nation.

BTW, love DMW and always thought and hoped he had the ability to hit a few 3s every now and again and be the player he is showing to be so far this year.

 

[rtbritt]

From my perspective, the most concerning thing about the game today was how short the bench got. 7 is a dangerously small rotation, and that's with 2 freshman who haven't faced big the level competition yet.

I wasn't able to watch the game as we were traveling home from Thanksgiving with family; I did listen on the radio, however.

As I looked at the box score, I wondered why the bench was so short. Why did Grandison barely play? Hawkins? Curbelo got injured, though I can't remember when that was and if he was glued to the bench before he got hurt.

 

[Illini Farmer]

Agreed. And there's an even longer list of comparables, going back a few more years:
* Luther Head
* Kevin Turner
* Kendall Gill
* Tony Wysinger

The switch just seems to go on (likely the result of taking 1000+ shots a day with a shooting coach during the off-season). Hoping we get to see two full years of the improved shot from DMW!

Kevin Turner as well improved a ton from freshman to senior season.

 

[Fr8trn16]

We clearly don’t have a longer player that Brad trusts to play PF in crunch time right now.

Not when the number 8th ranking was on the line against a team that would have been considered a bad loss on the record. Maybe against a Baylor! Or Duke! Hawkins definitely should have played more and has a jump shot to make you play honest on the offensive end.

 

[Bleedorangeandblue44]

Not when the number 8th ranking was on the line against a team that would have been considered a bad loss on the record. Maybe against a Baylor! Or Duke! Hawkins definitely should have played more and has a jump shot to make you play honest on the offensive end.

I wish Hawkins would have got the minute or two the walkon did late in the first half. Think Illinois had finally pushed the lead to 8 points or so and had a chance for a nice halftime lead after struggling most of the first half and the next thing you know Ohio is right back in it.

and not a fan when coaches have a hard-fast rule about sitting w two fouls in the first half. Wish they could be flexible, especially when Williams was playing well. So many times the player ends the game still with two or three fouls. Plus I think it doesn’t hurt for players to learn how to play with moderate foul trouble. I think Preston stayed in w two fouls and it helped Ohio stay close.

can the coaches/experts/analytics on the board explain the best way to defend a pick and roll? What should Illinois have done differently today? Could they have run two people at Preston and then scrambled and play help and recover? How do they keep that from being a problem going forward? I’ll hang up and listen for the answer. Thanks!

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Eh I think we are pretty much in agreement overall. I was curious about who else was in the top 10 of 3s made, but wasn't able to find it.

I'd guess if you compare the shooters who are in the top 10-15 in 3s made, some probably shoot 45-48 percent, but some probably are in that 38-44 range, similar to Head also.

On a really good team, making as many 3s as he did (I don't know the number), at 41%, he should probably be called one of the top shooters in the nation.

BTW, love DMW and always thought and hoped he had the ability to hit a few 3s every now and again and be the player he is showing to be so far this year.

FYI, here is the list of top 10 made with their %, and top 10 percentages with number made. Couldn’t find beyond top 10 for either, so not sure Luther’s rank in percentage, but I’d guess about 20th and likely not less than 25th.

Pat Carroll — 135 — .434
Taquan Dean — 122 — .447
JJ Reddick — 121 — .403
Salim Stoudemire — 120 — .504
Luther Head — 116 — .410
TJ Sorrentine — 116 — .400
Brandon Plavich — 114 — .388
Keydren Clark — 109 — .367
Ed McCants — 107 — .375
Gerry McNamara — 107 — .340

Salim Stoudemire — .504 — 120
Will Whittington — .492 — 97
Dennis Trammell — .484 — 59
Chris Lofton — .465 — 93
Drake Diener — .462 — 85
Steve Novak — .461 — 89
John Reimold — .457 — 79
Troy DeVries — .452 — 93
Dean — .447 — 122
Robert Merritt — .440 — 85

 

[ChocolateThunder]

DRS wrote
Ayo could be my favorite Illini of all-time. He will join my all-time backcourt with Dee and Nick Anderson.

Watched The Last Dance again over the holiday. Every once in a awhile one sees a little MJ in Ayo's game.

 

[texillwek]

That right there is a March tourney matchup in the second round that you have to win to advance. Check that box.

Hadn’t looked at it that way. Good point!

 

[ugottabjoshinme]

Weird game. Ayo's the absolute man. Georgi continues his decline this is why Brad wants a 4 so badly. Grandison isn't going to last in the box score on this team long, he doesn't seem to get spacing.

It’s not really a decline, he just isn’t a power forward. He played well when in at center

 

[altgeld88]

Do you really think that they were trying to imbue toughness? I think that was the last thing on their mind at the time. They were just angry and lost it.

Yes, I do think that's what they're doing. I don't intend to claim, however, that there's a one-size-fits-all intensity to it. I also note with Izzo, having watched him for many years, that he deftly modulates his anger depending on the player. One reason why he's a HOF coach, in my opinion, is that he knows what motivates a particular player and what doesn't. Some shut down in the face of aggressive correction. The issue then is how you motivate and teach them to play with discipline and consistency.

Frankly, I think it would be interesting to have a player with Mark Smith's talent and temperament on our team in another couple years and see how BU pushes him differently from how he handled the young man early in his coaching term here. Perhaps he would use different buttons or push the same ones more softly. The man has shown that he learns, changes, and improves. Or, perhaps, there's a floor of tolerance for a$$-kicking he requires and if the player can't reach it then he's out. I don't know.

Am interested in what others think, particularly those active in coaching today. It's easy to say "kids are different today." I don't think they are. The broader culture's different. It's the culture within a program and a player's desire to fit and follow that is the determining factor. Love is extending yourself so that someone else may grow. That's what an effective coach does, IMO. Sometimes it involves a blowtorch to motivate. Sometimes not.

 

[Ga65]

Think most of us have felt the 4 position is our weakness. Would have loved to see DaMonte on Preston and available to guard the best 1-3 scorer on the opposition rather than the four. Disappointed we didn’t see more of Cole and Jacob guarding Vander Plas. I didn’t pick up issues with Cole guarding him but probably don’t know what to look for. Didn’t think anyone had a bad game. Ace and Ayo going 1/8 on three point shots certainly didn’t help but there will be those days. Only 1 three pointer by Trent which he made so have options available. Lots of TO’s but there was pretty equal contribution not just one player having a bad game. Guess I would also like to have seen some variations in defensive schemes but may be saving those for Baylor and didn’t want to give any scouting material.
Also one of the practice clips showed a nice jump hook by Kofi not seen in a game. Seems like he is always turning into the defense and trying to over power them. He is largely successful doing that but is sometimes stripped and will be more of a problem with more skilled competitors. Not recognizing any new offensive moves by him.

 

[sinmyp1]

Having a 6' 10" guy draining 3's with a guy like Preston zipping all over the place is a hugh advantage that most teams don't have. I like Ohio's team, may have to follow them a bit this year. I think they are going to do well in the MAC this year. Glad they gave us a great game and a wake up call before Baylor and Duke.

 

[iLL 89ers]

IMO , Illini` played a good game and Ohio played a very good game and was well coached and executed the pick n` roll to top tier quality . Turnovers and free throw shooting (mostly in first half) was rough today...no game will be perfect and close games and losses will happen.

Hats off to the guys and coaches for letting the guys play the last few minutes with some great execution and play call in game of getting them open looks at them 3`s they hit (DMV & Ayo) that kept the game for their chance to win (showed extreme Moxy) and any moment or pressure situation is not going to alter this squad from doing their thing (veterans move) .. these are the games that every team needs and will be part of only getting better moving forward.

My four key things for improvement ( or to work on)moving forward from this game (stop the careless or unforced turnovers , work on them free throws , start working on the high ball screen and pick n` roll defense )..as Coach U. mentioned in post game . Besides that I thought the Illini~ played a good game and Ohio was juiced, emotionally and prepared and had a game plan and played a good game as well and had a very good (scouting) game plan . That squad if healthy moving forward will be right there fighting at the top of their conference this season.

 

[altenberger22]

Having a 6' 10" guy draining 3's with a guy like Preston zipping all over the place is a hugh advantage that most teams don't have. I like Ohio's team, may have to follow them a bit this year. I think they are going to do well in the MAC this year. Glad they gave us a great game and a wake up call before Baylor and Duke.

I totally agree. I really like Ohio's team, and I want to follow their progress throughout the season. Their big 3 are really strong (and scored 63 of their 75 points yesterday).

 

[Whitmans Sampler]

Think most of us have felt the 4 position is our weakness. Would have loved to see DaMonte on Preston and available to guard the best 1-3 scorer on the opposition rather than the four. Disappointed we didn’t see more of Cole and Jacob guarding Vander Plas. I didn’t pick up issues with Cole guarding him but probably don’t know what to look for. Didn’t think anyone had a bad game. Ace and Ayo going 1/8 on three point shots certainly didn’t help but there will be those days. Only 1 three pointer by Trent which he made so have options available. Lots of TO’s but there was pretty equal contribution not just one player having a bad game. Guess I would also like to have seen some variations in defensive schemes but may be saving those for Baylor and didn’t want to give any scouting material.
Also one of the practice clips showed a nice jump hook by Kofi not seen in a game. Seems like he is always turning into the defense and trying to over power them. He is largely successful doing that but is sometimes stripped and will be more of a problem with more skilled competitors. Not recognizing any new offensive moves by him.

Agree on the Kofi part. With the ball in his hands on the low block, he doesn’t (yet) look to be any more polished than last season.

 

[illinitiger]

So many things pointing to the fact that the Illini were lucky to win today. One of the major factors was free throw shooting where they were a paltry 62.5% hitting 15 of 24. What makes the Illini even more lucky was that Ohio hit an even worse percentage of 44% hitting only 4 of 9. The foul disparity was not huge, 18-14, but Ohio did more of theirs on shooters. The free throw disparity was immense but not surprising as the Illini won the boards 45 to 25 and had a decided team speed advantage. Ohio used their fouls wisely though and took advantage of sloppy Illini ball-handling and passing to win the turnover stat 16-7. What that shows is the Illinois had a decided advantage in speed and athleticism but Ohio made up for it in skill and saavy. Result, a very close game that could have been won by either team.

Last season, we saw the Illini slow their game and take better care of the ball in B1G play. This season, they have started by playing at lightning speed resulting in many turnovers but taking advantage of a lot of depth. However, if they cannot learn to cut the TO rate, they will have to slow their play and lose some of the advantage they have in team speed. We have yet to see any full, 3/4, or half court press defense...a hallmark of any success BU had his first couple of years...but also a thorn leading to easy buckets due to the overplay philosophy...which was a disaster in B1G play. Pressing could end up being a plus due to team depth...we will have to wait and see.

Frustrating that most of TOs are not happening when they are going fast...usually half court trying to thread passes a little too much and Kofi "low ball" handoffs.