Illinois Football Recruiting Thread

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#601      
Sure. Makes sense. My thoughts were along the line of the regular conversations around “we need to keep instate kids home”. Program wise, if UCLA and USC are struggling with it themselves (even if they are at relative low points in their programs) and even if their lower Cali recruits are still significantly better than Illinois’ upper tier, it may just not be a strategy that state schools can succeed at (save for the obvious exceptions).

I suppose the major difference being they are losing the players to national powerhouses/top tier programs and we are losing them to mid-tier Big10 etc.
 
#602      
Sure. Makes sense. My thoughts were along the line of the regular conversations around “we need to keep instate kids home”. Program wise, if UCLA and USC are struggling with it themselves (even if they are at relative low points in their programs) and even if their lower Cali recruits are still significantly better than Illinois’ upper tier, it may just not be a strategy that state schools can succeed at (save for the obvious exceptions).

I suppose the major difference being they are losing the players to national powerhouses/top tier programs and we are losing them to mid-tier Big10 etc.

Glad we were able to talk and hash that out. Again, my apologies.

To this discussion, California has two real problems as it relates directly to in-state recruiting: A lame duck HC in Clay Helton and Mario Cristobal. If one were to create a list of the top 10 recruiters in ALL of college football, Mario Cristobal would make it twice. He is that good. The minute he hired on at Oregon, the state of California was up for grabs. He is recruiting the heck out of Santa Ana, he's deep into the Central valley and practically owns Calabasas (A HUGE territorial loss for USC and UCLA). If USC can't hire a big name coach who comes in and forges some sort of immediate success, that state will continue to turn green and they will slowly fall almost completely out of PAC-12 relevancy (An embarrassing thought if you're an SC fan, as that conference isn't any good).

To relate that to our recruiting, the 2019 cycle was the highest rated AAR class we've had since Ron Zook was steering the ship. How did we do that? Simple: We owned St. Louis. We've done ok in Texas (We'll see if Joe Price can have an impact in the near future), not nearly as well as we could and we're about to get skunked in this cycle. We've nabbed a few decent kids from Florida and Georgia where we're trying to gain a stronghold but the road to a successful program for us is running through St. Louis. To have a person like Cory, who gives us a legitimate chance to sign very literally any kid (Outside of DeSmet) in that area regardless of talent or ranking, is invaluable.
 
#605      
The gap has definitely tightened on that one. Still have to sell him but 6-7 wins with help that.

Not sure if you believe in moral victories but if you do, this would be one. Closing the gap on a kid this good is a pretty big deal. 5 years ago an Antonio Doyle type wouldn't have even looked our way.
 
#606      
Glad we were able to talk and hash that out. Again, my apologies.

To this discussion, California has two real problems as it relates directly to in-state recruiting: A lame duck HC in Clay Helton and Mario Cristobal. If one were to create a list of the top 10 recruiters in ALL of college football, Mario Cristobal would make it twice. He is that good. The minute he hired on at Oregon, the state of California was up for grabs. He is recruiting the heck out of Santa Ana, he's deep into the Central valley and practically owns Calabasas (A HUGE territorial loss for USC and UCLA). If USC can't hire a big name coach who comes in and forges some sort of immediate success, that state will continue to turn green and they will slowly fall almost completely out of PAC-12 relevancy (An embarrassing thought if you're an SC fan, as that conference isn't any good).

To relate that to our recruiting, the 2019 cycle was the highest rated AAR class we've had since Ron Zook was steering the ship. How did we do that? Simple: We owned St. Louis. We've done ok in Texas (We'll see if Joe Price can have an impact in the near future), not nearly as well as we could and we're about to get skunked in this cycle. We've nabbed a few decent kids from Florida and Georgia where we're trying to gain a stronghold but the road to a successful program for us is running through St. Louis. To have a person like Cory, who gives us a legitimate chance to sign very literally any kid (Outside of DeSmet) in that area regardless of talent or ranking, is invaluable.

Though it wouldn't surprise me at all if USC fired Helton, I'm not sure it is as sure thing as you believe. They've had a crazy amount of injuries this year and he has them at 4-1 in conference (though only 5-3 overall). They play Oregon this weekend, but then have 3 winnable games. If they go 3-1 the rest of the way, that would put Helton's career record at USC at 40-21 (and that includes a 5-4 record for the year he took over after Sarkisian was fired in season) and 29-12 in conference. I believe USC is still without an AD, and the longer that takes the better Helton's chances of getting another year being that he is signed through 2023 and has a pretty hefty (or at least did) buyout. I know the fans wanted him out after last year and that hasn't changed. But if he goes 3-1 rest of the way it is conceivable he gets another year. And if they can manage to beat Oregon at home (UO has won its last two games by only a combined total of 6 points), well then all bets might be off.
 
#607      

mhuml32

Cincinnati, OH
Not sure if you believe in moral victories but if you do, this would be one. Closing the gap on a kid this good is a pretty big deal. 5 years ago an Antonio Doyle type wouldn't have even looked our way.


And the staff badly needs to close on one of these highly-ranked linebackers. Adeoye and Robertson proved they can be serious contenders (and were ranked really close to Doyle's current ranking), need to find a way to get his signature.
 
#608      

mhuml32

Cincinnati, OH
Not to jump too far ahead but after looking at the top 2021 Illinois prospects, I'm guessing next year will be a big focus out-of-state. Three of the top five are already committed else, another is Dominic Bass (big priority for Illinois, but already has a UM pick), and the final one is from an area that Illinois has traditionally done very poorly (Winnetka). You have to get farther down the list before you start finding prospects from areas this staff has been successful. It's early and these names will get shuffled around coming next fall, but that 2021 class is going to be so important with all of the seniors.
 
#609      
And the staff badly needs to close on one of these highly-ranked linebackers. Adeoye and Robertson proved they can be serious contenders (and were ranked really close to Doyle's current ranking), need to find a way to get his signature.

Ah, Ayodele Adeoye. I've spent a fair amount of time wondering what his recruitment would have looked like had we gotten Cory into the mix early but alas, what can you do?

Definitely, that's the next hill to climb. First you conquer getting into the mix on a real level, then you step over that milestone and drive toward what it takes to actually bring them on board. 2021 will be the test.

Speaking of 2021, a St. Louis kid by the name of Trevion Ford will be in house Saturday to watch us take on Rutgers. I hear he's ok.
 
#610      
Can anybody give me an idea of who we are looking at on the recruiting front for this year? It seems like a while since there has been any real smoke. I know we want Doyle, but I'm curious about other targets as well.
 
#611      
Though it wouldn't surprise me at all if USC fired Helton, I'm not sure it is as sure thing as you believe. They've had a crazy amount of injuries this year and he has them at 4-1 in conference (though only 5-3 overall). They play Oregon this weekend, but then have 3 winnable games. If they go 3-1 the rest of the way, that would put Helton's career record at USC at 40-21 (and that includes a 5-4 record for the year he took over after Sarkisian was fired in season) and 29-12 in conference. I believe USC is still without an AD, and the longer that takes the better Helton's chances of getting another year being that he is signed through 2023 and has a pretty hefty (or at least did) buyout. I know the fans wanted him out after last year and that hasn't changed. But if he goes 3-1 rest of the way it is conceivable he gets another year. And if they can manage to beat Oregon at home (UO has won its last two games by only a combined total of 6 points), well then all bets might be off.

This is a solid, well researched post and you make a lot of good points. The counter to that, however, is simple: It's the University of Southern California. 8-4 is not accepted there (They, of course, were 5-7 last season missed bowl season). The expectation at that University is double digit wins, conference championships and CFB Playoff appearances. Helton is nowhere near this threshold. Recruiting for 2020 is in the toilet (Wild stat for the day: Their current AAR for this cycle is lower than ours. Think about that for a minute) and i've heard a lot of chatter about Korey Foreman playing the field.

If they take down Oregon things might get interested. Barring an upset there, I personally think he's toast.
 
#612      

Illwinsagain

Cary, IL
This is a solid, well researched post and you make a lot of good points. The counter to that, however, is simple: It's the University of Southern California. 8-4 is not accepted there (They, of course, were 5-7 last season missed bowl season). The expectation at that University is double digit wins, conference championships and CFB Playoff appearances. Helton is nowhere near this threshold. Recruiting for 2020 is in the toilet (Wild stat for the day: Their current AAR for this cycle is lower than ours. Think about that for a minute) and i've heard a lot of chatter about Korey Foreman playing the field.

If they take down Oregon things might get interested. Barring an upset there, I personally think he's toast.
Well, where will we be poaching our portal transfers from then in 3 years? Heck, they may have to poach from us! /s
 
#613      
This is a solid, well researched post and you make a lot of good points. The counter to that, however, is simple: It's the University of Southern California. 8-4 is not accepted there (They, of course, were 5-7 last season missed bowl season). The expectation at that University is double digit wins, conference championships and CFB Playoff appearances. Helton is nowhere near this threshold. Recruiting for 2020 is in the toilet (Wild stat for the day: Their current AAR for this cycle is lower than ours. Think about that for a minute) and i've heard a lot of chatter about Korey Foreman playing the field.

If they take down Oregon things might get interested. Barring an upset there, I personally think he's toast.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets canned because of the expectations of the job and, as you point out, the recruiting class he has right now is problematic. He has shown the ability to recruit though -- his classes have been #10, #4, #4 and last year #20 with a bad season -- so a strong finish and word that he won't be fired could turn that class around. But it is the expectations that will likely get him, especially if they bring in an AD with past ties to USC. For example if they lure Villanova AD Mark Jackson back to Southern Cal then good chance Helton is gone. But if they bring in an outsider and Helton goes 3-1 rest of the way (or better, 4-0) he might get another year to show what he can do. Especially if the search drags on because the interim AD has said barring something extraordinary he wouldn't be making the decision but leave it to a new AD.

What I find funny is the expectations USC fans/boosters have may not be very realistic (I know, when have fans/boosters let that get in the way). The Pac 12 has only had 2 representatives in the CFB playoffs and none the past 2 years (and very possibly none this year). Another funny thing is they might actually be better off keeping Helton next year. If they bring in a new coach his first game will be against Alabama, and while they'll have ND at home USC's Pac-12 road schedule in 2020 is Arizona, Oregon, Stanford, Utah and UCLA. Be much easier for a new coach to start his regime with a nonconference schedule of UC-Davis, ND and BYU and a conference road slate of Ariz. St, Wash. St., Cal and Colorado.
 
#614      
Word on the street is mookie isnt happy after finding out it will be much harder to earn minutes as he is 5 or 6th on depth chart!!!!
 
#615      
Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets canned because of the expectations of the job and, as you point out, the recruiting class he has right now is problematic. He has shown the ability to recruit though -- his classes have been #10, #4, #4 and last year #20 with a bad season -- so a strong finish and word that he won't be fired could turn that class around. But it is the expectations that will likely get him, especially if they bring in an AD with past ties to USC. For example if they lure Villanova AD Mark Jackson back to Southern Cal then good chance Helton is gone. But if they bring in an outsider and Helton goes 3-1 rest of the way (or better, 4-0) he might get another year to show what he can do. Especially if the search drags on because the interim AD has said barring something extraordinary he wouldn't be making the decision but leave it to a new AD.

What I find funny is the expectations USC fans/boosters have may not be very realistic (I know, when have fans/boosters let that get in the way). The Pac 12 has only had 2 representatives in the CFB playoffs and none the past 2 years (and very possibly none this year). Another funny thing is they might actually be better off keeping Helton next year. If they bring in a new coach his first game will be against Alabama, and while they'll have ND at home USC's Pac-12 road schedule in 2020 is Arizona, Oregon, Stanford, Utah and UCLA. Be much easier for a new coach to start his regime with a nonconference schedule of UC-Davis, ND and BYU and a conference road slate of Ariz. St, Wash. St., Cal and Colorado.

All good points again, I agree with most everything you've mentioned.

As for the notes on recruiting, as bolded above, he's in a tough spot which is highly problematic for a HC who's made his name off of his ability to recruit HS seniors. They're still in on the kid Bryant who is supposed to be really good and they've got a few CBs of kids who profile nicely but it's not your typical SC class. Oregon, Washington and even (Seriously) Stanford are gonna blow them by. That is something that group of boosters will definitely not look past.

This is interesting conversation though. I'll be watching closely to see how it all plays out.
 
#616      
One more thing on USC and Helton, and then back to our regularly scheduled programming. Was just taking a look at USC's class next year and while it is below their standards, the six lowest rated recruits are 5 offensive linemen (not sure how accurate ratings for OL really are) and a kicker. So class might not be as bad as it seems. And they already have 4 players who have verbaled for 2021 including the #3 QB, #5 OLB and #19 DT. And to bring it back around to how this discussion started, the four recruits are the #2, #9, #19, and #32 ranked players in Calif.
 
#617      
Word on the street is mookie isnt happy after finding out it will be much harder to earn minutes as he is 5 or 6th on depth chart!!!!

OSU does lose 3 senior WRs (#s 2-4) and do play a fair amount of WRs -- 7 either have double figure receptions or caught a TD pass. But considering the WR class they're bringing in, yeah, he probably is fairly low on the depth chart.
 
#619      
I can't help myself....if we retain everyone, flip Cooper and sign Doyle, Spann and Riggins.....that's good for #42 class in the nation (even with just 12 signees) and gives us an average rating of .8797 (#4 in B10 behind only OSU, Michigan and PSU; Top 20-25 in the nation)
 
#620      
I can't help myself....if we retain everyone, flip Cooper and sign Doyle, Spann and Riggins.....that's good for #42 class in the nation (even with just 12 signees) and gives us an average rating of .8797 (#4 in B10 behind only OSU, Michigan and PSU; Top 20-25 in the nation)

If we sign Spann does Dixon still sign?
 
#623      
Lot of chatter here and elsewhere that we'll flip Riggins. I won't say who, the poster can reveal himself if he chooses but a highly credible person active here has told me that we're also in on a flip kid from the Southwest. That would be news I haven't heard.

Random others:

-The kid Key from Chicago is getting hot and has an offer pending from a program that, in name, is larger than ours. He's very much in the Moses Okpala range. Very raw but rich with untapped potential
-As I said here a week or so, I'm told we're fully in on Denver Warren
-Probably fully out on Lawaun Powell and Kyan Graham. The original thought was we might take Powell with the indirect hope of making an in-road with East but that doesn't seem to be the play anymore
-Per Jeremy Werner, Wesley Bailey (A Canadian kid now in Florida) will be here Saturday. I know next to zero about this recruit
-We're going to get skunked in Texas
 
#624      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
Lot of chatter here and elsewhere that we'll flip Riggins. I won't say who, the poster can reveal himself if he chooses but a highly credible person active here has told me that we're also in on a flip kid from the Southwest. That would be news I haven't heard.

Random others:

-The kid Key from Chicago is getting hot and has an offer pending from a program that, in name, is larger than ours. He's very much in the Moses Okpala range. Very raw but rich with untapped potential
-As I said here a week or so, I'm told we're fully in on Denver Warren
-Probably fully out on Lawaun Powell and Kyan Graham. The original thought was we might take Powell with the indirect hope of making an in-road with East but that doesn't seem to be the play anymore
-Per Jeremy Werner, Wesley Bailey (A Canadian kid now in Florida) will be here Saturday. I know next to zero about this recruit
-We're going to get skunked in Texas

Appreciate the info.
 
#625      

Dren1

Glenview, IL
Lot of chatter here and elsewhere that we'll flip Riggins. I won't say who, the poster can reveal himself if he chooses but a highly credible person active here has told me that we're also in on a flip kid from the Southwest. That would be news I haven't heard.

Random others:

-The kid Key from Chicago is getting hot and has an offer pending from a program that, in name, is larger than ours. He's very much in the Moses Okpala range. Very raw but rich with untapped potential
-As I said here a week or so, I'm told we're fully in on Denver Warren
-Probably fully out on Lawaun Powell and Kyan Graham. The original thought was we might take Powell with the indirect hope of making an in-road with East but that doesn't seem to be the play anymore
-Per Jeremy Werner, Wesley Bailey (A Canadian kid now in Florida) will be here Saturday. I know next to zero about this recruit
-We're going to get skunked in Texas
A few pretty decent offers (Virginia Tech, Washington State, etc.), looks like someone we would be in the running for.

https://247sports.com/Player/Wesley-Bailey-46053643/
 
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