Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July 2018)

[Joel Goodson]

Okafor was an excellent college player and that is frankly all I care about. If Kofi is a good college player at U of I and helps get us back to where we belong fantastic. I don't much care how his game compares or equates in the NBA.

+1

Cockburn is going to be a VVG college player (and that's the floor). Has a legit chance to be a Scott May-like dominator.

And, FWIW, I agree with those who think he'll have much tougher sledding in the NBA.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

I don't know. Look at possibly the best "traditional" big of the last decade coming out of HS... Jahlil Okafor. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire in his career. It's just a different game than it was 20 years ago.

I bet Duke fans and Coach K think Okafor's college career turned out just fine. I believe they put up a really nice banner @ Cameron Indoor in honor of that team.
Getting this guy would be an absolute coup for this staff. A Top 25 big man isn't something that you can just pick up anywhere. EVERYONE recruits them. Most teams have decent guard play. The difference between most teams and top ranked teams is the quality of their big men.
The Illini aren't likely to get anyone better. He may not move exceptionally well, but he has elite size and strength. If he had both, he'd be a one and done type player, and we couldn't sniff his recruitment.

 

[FiveStar]

To be clear I want Kofi I’m just saying why analysts don’t like the low post shot.

I know nba is different but here are the numbers: https://stats.nba.com/teams/shooting/

<5 feet: 56.8%-67% FG% these would be layups and dunks off lobs and dump offs
5-9 feet, traditional post up area: 34.1%-46.2%
10-14 feet, mid post: 34.5%-48.7%
15-19 feet, midrange: 37.5%-48.5%
20-24 feet, dreaded long 2: 35%-42.2%
24+ feet: 33.6%-39.5%

What does it take to be a champ? Warriors top in about half the categories, top 3 in all.

Takeaway: everything outside of 5 feet is hit a similar percentage so might as well try to get 3 for it. Hence why analysts don’t like the post. I’d love to see a college breakdown like this if there was one

 

[Ga65]

Supports BU's emphasis on offense rebounds and put backs. Believe Cockburn would make a big difference there on both offensive rebounds and preventing them against us. Also not an easy screen to get around on a drive.

 

[SergioKittner]

To be clear I want Kofi I’m just saying why analysts don’t like the low post shot.

I know nba is different but here are the numbers: https://stats.nba.com/teams/shooting/

<5 feet: 56.8%-67% FG% these would be layups and dunks off lobs and dump offs
5-9 feet, traditional post up area: 34.1%-46.2%
10-14 feet, mid post: 34.5%-48.7%
15-19 feet, midrange: 37.5%-48.5%
20-24 feet, dreaded long 2: 35%-42.2%
24+ feet: 33.6%-39.5%

What does it take to be a champ? Warriors top in about half the categories, top 3 in all.

Takeaway: everything outside of 5 feet is hit a similar percentage so might as well try to get 3 for it. Hence why analysts don’t like the post. I’d love to see a college breakdown like this if there was one

I wonder if lack of quality post play has anything to do with the above numbers? The Celtics used Horford and Smart in the post very effectively in the NBA playoffs this year, depending on matchups. I know the Illini staff had Leron at 65% or so on post-ups last season. I'd also argue that a good-to-great post shot is taken within 5 feet of the rim.

 

[Epsilon]

To be clear I want Kofi I’m just saying why analysts don’t like the low post shot.

I know nba is different but here are the numbers: https://stats.nba.com/teams/shooting/

<5 feet: 56.8%-67% FG% these would be layups and dunks off lobs and dump offs
5-9 feet, traditional post up area: 34.1%-46.2%
10-14 feet, mid post: 34.5%-48.7%
15-19 feet, midrange: 37.5%-48.5%
20-24 feet, dreaded long 2: 35%-42.2%
24+ feet: 33.6%-39.5%

What does it take to be a champ? Warriors top in about half the categories, top 3 in all.

Takeaway: everything outside of 5 feet is hit a similar percentage so might as well try to get 3 for it. Hence why analysts don’t like the post. I’d love to see a college breakdown like this if there was one

Pretty interesting drop after 19'. Any idea if there is a stat capturing average offensive rebound percentage, based on shot length? I'd be curious to see if there is any meaningful link there, such that the effective percentage in a possession goes up. It seems common sense but not sure if there is any real data or study on that...

 

[Second and Chalmers]

"(through the lenses of advance stat gurus)"

Then I'm confused.
So advanced stat gurus are not so advanced? Clearly there are some stats that support their stance?

Or is this just your opinion?

The original article is making a claim about advanced stats that is inaccurate, and reflects a poor understanding of what advanced stats actually reveal.

No actual advanced stat guru would describe a post-up as the "worst shot in basketball" especially not when speaking specifically about college basketball.

All of which is to say, they did eventually get it right by ranking Cockburn as a 5-star, even if his NBA projection might be lower than other comparably ranked players.

And of course we're assuming two facts not in evidence here, first that Cockburn can't develop the jump shot and defensive versatility that would transform him from Jahlil Okafor to DeAndre Ayton, and second that the NBA's style of play isn't going to continue to evolve in ways we might not be able to predict ahead of time.

 

[Ga65]

Would it be an advantage for Cockburn to play under BU rather than a more tradition post play coach? Would seem to require some modification of his system??

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Would it be an advantage for Cockburn to play under BU rather than a more tradition post play coach? Would seem to require some modification of his system??

Think of it the other way, if Cockburn wants to be an NBA player he's going to need to develop the skills it would take to play Underwood ball.

We'd get him post touches. Black got a ton last year.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Think of it the other way, if Cockburn wants to be an NBA player he's going to need to develop the skills it would take to play Underwood ball.

We'd get him post touches. Black got a ton last year.

Outstanding post S&C. Well said.

 

[Peoria Illini]

Think of it the other way, if Cockburn wants to be an NBA player he's going to need to develop the skills it would take to play Underwood ball.

We'd get him post touches. Black got a ton last year.

Agreed. Let's hope BU also teaches him that the ball can come back out once in a while as well... LOL.

I love Leron, and he was the man, but that ball was going up most of the time when he got it.

 

[Deleted member 4960]

Agreed. Let's hope BU also teaches him that the ball can come back out once in a while as well... LOL.

I love Leron, and he was the man, but that ball was going up most of the time when he got it.

And he deserved to shoot it. By far was the most consistent shooter on the team. We were extremely offensively challenged last year. Other than Frazier who didn’t come along until later in the season he was the most efficient at converting possessions into points

 

[Peoria Illini]

And he deserved to shoot it. By far was the most consistent shooter on the team. We were extremely offensively challenged last year. Other than Frazier who didn’t come along until later in the season he was the most efficient at converting possessions into points

He was, but I also think it slowed down, bogged down and stopped our offensive flow and learning of the offense. Quite similar to how Weber's motion offense stopped flowing when Shaun Pruitt was in the game and got the ball.

Guy stopped moving, stopped cutting, etc. when the ball got to Leron.

 

[IlliniBrave75]

UIHoopsRecruits@UIHoopsRecruits ·3h
How UI recruits moved in the updated 2020 rankings: Caleb Love into the top 50, recent visitors Dain Dainja & Zeb Jackson now ranked and Tyler Beard almost top 50 (offer soon?)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dhb7ke3UYAAJdJL?format=jpg

 

[tpbradley]

He was, but I also think it slowed down, bogged down and stopped our offensive flow and learning of the offense. Quite similar to how Weber's motion offense stopped flowing when Shaun Pruitt was in the game and got the ball.

Guy stopped moving, stopped cutting, etc. when the ball got to Leron.

I actually agree with this, and when Leron announced that he isn't returning next year, while I knew that meant that we most likely were not going to be playing in any after season tourneys, I do feel like he didn't truly fit BU's system. Without him, I think we will get to see these new guys play to the system and develop.

 

[rtbritt]

What happens when you spill you morning cup of joe in your lap? Kofi Cockburn.

 

[Calvin]

And he deserved to shoot it. By far was the most consistent shooter on the team.

Yup, he was our best player, and reliable when he got the ball anywhere near the basket. Didn't take a lot of 3s, but made half of them.

 

[TheGMan]

What happens when you spill you morning cup of joe in your lap? Kofi Cockburn.

:thumb:

 

[SergioKittner]

Yup, he was our best player, and reliable when he got the ball anywhere near the basket. Didn't take a lot of 3s, but made half of them.

As I mentioned before, BU said in an interview towards the end of the season that Leron was around 65% from a post position. You just feed that until they can stop it.

 

[SescIllini]

I think Chris Payton is going to be a 4 year solid college player somewhere. Need to land Kahill Whitney and other top recruits because the narrative is going to be that we over estimated our chances with McAA types or someone stole our lunch.

Payton reminds me of the Nebraska WF/PF from the last couple seasons that do well in the BIG. Read he is UP to 6-7 and 220. He is probably an option after 3-4 players we are recruiting.

 

[Newman]

I think Chris Payton is going to be a 4 year solid college player somewhere. Need to land Kahill Whitney and other top recruits because the narrative is going to be that we over estimated our chances with McAA types or someone stole our lunch.

Payton reminds me of the Nebraska WF/PF from the last couple seasons that do well in the BIG. Read he is UP to 6-7 and 220. He is probably an option after 3-4 players we are recruiting.

I've wanted Chris Payton for a while now but I think he's going to get passed up for higher rated wings. He would have been an Illini if he were in the 2018 class.

 

[TCTORNADO]

I've wanted Chris Payton for a while now but I think he's going to get passed up for higher rated wings. He would have been an Illini if he were in the 2018 class.

Payton's latest offer, New Mexico.

 

[Dayman]

Analytics are nice and stats are interesting to take a look at but I am old school in the sense that when we are chucking the analytic favorite 3s and they aren’t falling, it would be really nice to have a post player we can throw the ball to inside and depend on to score.

 

[PlayAZ]

I think Chris Payton is going to be a 4 year solid college player somewhere. Need to land Kahill Whitney and other top recruits because the narrative is going to be that we over estimated our chances with McAA types or someone stole our lunch.

Payton reminds me of the Nebraska WF/PF from the last couple seasons that do well in the BIG. Read he is UP to 6-7 and 220. He is probably an option after 3-4 players we are recruiting.

Chris Payton reminds me of a Creighton/Boston College/Stanford type of wing. Does well, can get better, plays within the system, nothing spectacular...those types of wings it just seems end up at schools that have good records, but are unspectacular for the most part.:thumb:

 

[Deleted member 654622]

What happens when you spill you morning cup of joe in your lap? Kofi Cockburn.