Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (May-June 2018)

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Yes I understand all of this which is why I was commenting from a playing time perspective. Yes Oregon does have all those things but most kids don't care if they are not playing trust me. In the end it comes down to PT.

Or maybe he wants to be in the NCAA Tournament his first year, playing for a conference championship, getting away from home and going to a beautiful campus....all on top of playing for one of the elite coaches in the college game.

On top of that, most of these kids were 5 years old when we were relevant. Oregon was in the Final Four two years ago.

Hopefully that could help you understand why.
 
Or maybe he wants to be in the NCAA Tournament his first year, playing for a conference championship, getting away from home and going to a beautiful campus....all on top of playing for one of the elite coaches in the college game.

On top of that, most of these kids were 5 years old when we were relevant. Oregon was in the Final Four two years ago.

Hopefully that could help you understand why.
This is the reason he would want to go there. Winning does have the shiny things that go with it. I'm still waiting for any confirmation, all these crystal balls are just opinions. He wants to go to a winner, we are sunk. If he wants to be part of a change, to be a big part of young group hungry to win that is us. Easy to play with a loaded group, just hope he wants to be a role playing back up, because that's what will happen. Sitting back and waiting, all you can do, still thinking he will join.;):illinois:
 
Exactly, there is no recruiting quick fix.
That is not necessarily true at all. It is just that the quick fix is not available to Illinois. If you are a blue blood with the right coach or a school with access to endless money for facilities and excess and access, then there are possibilities. But for 90% of schools, your statement is correct.
 
Yep. Cuonzo has a history of quick recruiting wins and declining performance thereafter.
Not really true. Cuonzo took a struggling Missouri State program from 11-20 his first year and no tournament to 26-9 and NIT, improving in all 3 years. He took Tennessee from 19-15 and NIT in his first year to NCAA S16 and 24-13 improving all his 3 years as well. He took California from 18-15 and no tournament, to 21-13 and NIT his 3rd year. Granted his second year was slightly better (23-11 and NCAA first round) but definitely not a history of declining performance thereafter. He improved the program performance compared to his first year in all of his previous 3 stops as HC (Missouri State, Tennessee, California) and showed improvement 5 times between years (out of 6) versus 1 showing a slight decline.

It remains to be seen how Underwood and Cuonzo both do moving forward, but the statement above as far as "history" of declining performance is not true.
 

Deleted member 645583

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Yep, winning programs mean everything to some recruits, and why not?

Bu then there are some like Ayo - who could have gone just about anywhere - and Trent and Tevian and the other Illini.

Why have they been attracted and committed to Illinois? Playing time right off the bat? The allure of central Illinois?

Don't know. If Okoro goes, so be it.

P.S. I live in DeKalb, not quite a garden spot, but it's home.
 
Yep, winning programs mean everything to some recruits, and why not?

Bu then there are some like Ayo - who could have gone just about anywhere - and Trent and Tevian and the other Illini.

Why have they been attracted and committed to Illinois? Playing time right off the bat? The allure of central Illinois?

Don't know. If Okoro goes, so be it.

P.S. I live in DeKalb, not quite a garden spot, but it's home.
Don't forget, Illinois has been a winning program for most of its existence. I believe they still have the highest overall winning percentage of all Big Ten teams. They have all of the resources it takes to be a top-20 program year-in and year-out. All it will take is a few players to restore things. Maybe we already have them. We shall see.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Crap. Looked like we had a pretty decent shot.

I've always thought recruiting is best measured by watching it unfold, and judging a coach by whether he gets his plan A guys, plan B guys, etc. If you're getting half your A/B guys, you're a very good recruiter. If you dip down into Cs frequently, or reach even farther down your list, it shows you have a hard time closing the deal, or there were some tough circumstances.

Underwood's a mixed bag at this point, but he had a very rough first season here with the prior recruits, and has had to bring in a lot of new guys. We really need to see his system working to help sell the program.
This might make sense if you had a crystal ball into the mind of Underwood and knew who he considers a plan A/B/C/D kind of player. Unfortunately, none of us do, so I will go ahead and measure his recruiting based on the results it produces on the floor like a sane person.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
If you look at Oregon's roster over the years, they seem to have mostly California and International players and then a pretty steady stream of Illinois guys.

It really sucks that not only do we have to compete with other Big 10 schools and schools like Duke and Kansas for Chicago players, but we're also losing out on guys from Central Illinois to random schools on the other side of the country. And we're also in danger of losing Metro East guys to Miznoz.

It's a good thing we have someone like Antigua on staff, because if we want to compete we've got to get guys from all over until they rebuild the Illinois brand so that the local guys will want to stay.
This seems like a pretty solid, sane take to me. In other words, it probably won't go over well on these boards.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Particularly majors that require a lot of lab time are super difficult for athletes, because of the time commitment. There is no way to do those labs when you are traveling and a tutor is not going to help you with them.
You are dramatically overestimating the amount of time and effort that are required for labs in engineering programs. Honestly, the labs are mostly easy As with little requirement for thought compared to the actual lectures, and are somewhat of a GPA booster (though generally not worth many total credits).
 
Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
Regardless of everything else, losing out on kids in our backyard sucks.
This. It always stinks when you lose a really good player in your own backyard, especially when they turn out to be really good players elsewhere. Fairly recent obvious ones being Brian Cardinal, LewJack, KBD, Rayvonte (the first time, but at least he ended up at UI), Iguodala, and now possibly Okoro. At least we've gotten our fair share to lessen the sting over the years some (Meyers, Cookie, the Peoria boys), but man it just never feels good when you can't convince a local boy to stay home (or you didn't really recruit them hard in the first place and they turn out to be a stud). Definitely not as many Illinois players on the roster in recent years as their used to be, but maybe that's okay for now. Cast a wider net, and then when we string together some winning seasons again (and it WILL happen) all the local boys will be pining to don the Orange and Blue again. :cool:
 
Former Krush Cow
Chicago, IL
Particularly majors that require a lot of lab time are super difficult for athletes, because of the time commitment. There is no way to do those labs when you are traveling and a tutor is not going to help you with them.

I played Division 1 tennis in college and we had a guy on our team who was a Chemistry major. His schedule was insane. He had his own key to the science building and did the labs late at night/very early morning, then slept for a little bit before going to classes in the late morning/early afternoon and then went to practice or meets. Then he studied in the evening and did the whole thing over again.
I TA a lab class for science. We have 3 athletes in my class, none of them football or basketball though. The school just emails us their excused absence and then they come in the day before or after and do the lab with one of us. It's pretty straight forward. But it depends on the lab for sure. We do the same for students on med school/grad school interviews. Make up labs are way more common than you'd think.
 
San Francisco
Not really true. Cuonzo took a struggling Missouri State program from 11-20 his first year and no tournament to 26-9 and NIT, improving in all 3 years. He took Tennessee from 19-15 and NIT in his first year to NCAA S16 and 24-13 improving all his 3 years as well. He took California from 18-15 and no tournament, to 21-13 and NIT his 3rd year. Granted his second year was slightly better (23-11 and NCAA first round) but definitely not a history of declining performance thereafter. He improved the program performance compared to his first year in all of his previous 3 stops as HC (Missouri State, Tennessee, California) and showed improvement 5 times between years (out of 6) versus 1 showing a slight decline.

It remains to be seen how Underwood and Cuonzo both do moving forward, but the statement above as far as "history" of declining performance is not true.
I was referring to his recruiting not his record. He's brought in one or more 5 star recruits at Tennessee, Cal and Mizzou in his 1st or 2nd year and then never again. It's early at Mizzou but year 2 is dramatically worse then year 1. Admittedly this is thin data for my claim, but isn't that what this board is for? :)

If you look at Mizzou's prospects for 2019, the warmest prospects are 4 stars, so the trend may continue.
 

Deleted member 645583

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Don't forget, Illinois has been a winning program for most of its existence. I believe they still have the highest overall winning percentage of all Big Ten teams. They have all of the resources it takes to be a top-20 program year-in and year-out. All it will take is a few players to restore things. Maybe we already have them. We shall see.
Yes.

I 've posted similar thoughts from time to time - especially that Illinois basketball should be a perennial 20-game winner - just because, well, it's Illinois. But things have changed. Although I want Illinois guys going to U of I just because, I applaud the coaching staff for recruiting beyond our borders.
 
You are dramatically overestimating the amount of time and effort that are required for labs in engineering programs. Honestly, the labs are mostly easy As with little requirement for thought compared to the actual lectures, and are somewhat of a GPA booster (though generally not worth many total credits).
Yes, I really don't know anything about engineering labs. I was strictly going by what I knew of labs in classes like chemistry.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Yes, I really don't know anything about engineering labs. I was strictly going by what I knew of labs in classes like chemistry.
The general chemistry labs that pretty much every STEM student must take are awful. Truly awful. Those ones actually do take time and effort for very little payoff (in my opinion). I can honestly say that they did nothing for me educationally when I took them and yet took an obnoxious level of effort. The engineering labs, on the other hand, were usually similarly useless but required much less effort. That said, I am sure I am the weird one and some people actually did find them useful.
 
Would like Okoro but believe he wants and needs to be a 4 wherever he goes as that will be his NBA position. Seems to me we put way too much emphasis on in state recruits. Need to be a program where they want to play at home not begging them to stay. Also over value and maybe over rate them on this board. Probably because many have seen them play and were impressed. Would like to see some detail on the rating system as after the top ten or twelve the differences are small and is the reason for the competive nature of college basketball. Development, system, chemistry, and coaching can offset the ratings after the five stars. If not the case it would be Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and NC winning the National championship every year.
 
I TA a lab class for science. We have 3 athletes in my class, none of them football or basketball though. The school just emails us their excused absence and then they come in the day before or after and do the lab with one of us. It's pretty straight forward. But it depends on the lab for sure. We do the same for students on med school/grad school interviews. Make up labs are way more common than you'd think.
That is true. Professors are required to be very flexible with student athletes and do allow for make ups.

The sport someone plays is also a factor. Some sports, like football and track usually have most of their games/meets on the weekends and don't miss as much class time for travel. I think the college sports (at least when I competed) that required missing the most class were baseball and tennis. We used to have all of our meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so we would sometimes miss the same class three times in a row if it was a T/TR class.

But, yes, we did get to make up work and tests. And we did a lot of studying on vans and in hotels. That was kind of what I meant about labs, though, because you can't do those when you are on the road.
 
Peoria, IL
Would like Okoro but believe he wants and needs to be a 4 wherever he goes as that will be his NBA position. Seems to me we put way too much emphasis on in state recruits. Need to be a program where they want to play at home not begging them to stay. Also over value and maybe over rate them on this board. Probably because many have seen them play and were impressed. Would like to see some detail on the rating system as after the top ten or twelve the differences are small and is the reason for the competive nature of college basketball. Development, system, chemistry, and coaching can offset the ratings after the five stars. If not the case it would be Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and NC winning the National championship every year.
And some kids just want to get further away from home as well. Nothing wrong with that. If Okoro would rather play at Oregon than Illinois, best of luck to him. Would love to have him in the Orange and Blue, but he's got to want to be here as well.
 
Makes me wonder why Underwood wanted Finke to leave? Figured when that happened we had Okoro all locked up....:confused:
Not asked to leave and IDK- I think if I were Finke I would have done the same thing. Think about it- you can graduate from UIUC having given his all to the team and been a hard working and contributing player for years. Then you can go see another part of the country, be recruited and wooed again, get an additional degree for free and play on a tourney team or play with your brother for a year (maybe both). It is a year of growth, education and memories that no one will be able to take away from him and his family. I am not sure I would go to GCU. But then again, if I were Tim, I wouldn't have gone there either. They did what is right for them.
 
I TA a lab class for science. We have 3 athletes in my class, none of them football or basketball though. The school just emails us their excused absence and then they come in the day before or after and do the lab with one of us. It's pretty straight forward. But it depends on the lab for sure. We do the same for students on med school/grad school interviews. Make up labs are way more common than you'd think.
Every University is different. A bigger problem at schools, or specific majors, with smaller populations, is that certain courses are only offered in one section per academic year. And they are offered at the same time every year. And they may not be offered in the summer. These rarely conflict with formal practices, but can conflict with informal work such as weightlifting. If you have an understanding coach, things can work out. But, some student-athletes are forced to make difficult decisions that they should not have to make.
 
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