Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (May-June 2018)

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#776      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
UICFLAMES said:
Ridiculous? I think it is pretty reasonable, based on the returning talent level and the inexperience of roster to college ball and each other.

History shows that unless you are a top 10 five star freshmen, and maybe there are some other five star kids in your team, freshmen don’t get you to the tourney. I am guessing you were saying Mark Smith was a known last year, and would be the answer to the rebuild.

I want the team of my youth to win as much as anyone, but you got to be honest about what we have and what it will take to move forward.
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History doesn't show that freshmen don't get you to the tourney. That certainly makes it less likely, but it really depends on how fast the game slows down for them. If enough of them pick it up before, for example, the end of the non-conference schedule, then we have a chance. If it takes them a little longer, we are probably hosed. Again, I said that the odds are certainly against us, but "no shot" is patently ridiculous. Loyola had "no shot" at the Sweet 16 this year I bet.

And no, I didn't say Mark Smith was a known day 1 superstar. In fact, I think my opinion at the time was that he had a lot of potential but not a lot of experience so we should give him time to adjust to the college game. I honestly still feel that way and am legitimately disappointed that he transferred.

That said, think about what we actually have now compared to last year.
  • We've upgraded our guards (in terms of ready-to-play-now minutes) with Dosunmu and Feliz, plus more experienced Williams and Frazier.
  • We've upgraded our wing position with Jones (Griffin is a bit of an unknown) to add to Nichols and Jordan.
  • We've clearly gotten worse at the PF position with Black moving on (and a real unknown in Bezhanishvili if you consider him a PF).
  • Kane is an improvement over Finke athletically and in terms of potential, but we will have to see how well that pans out, especially as a freshman. Finke was a total no-show last year on O and D.

So no, I am not ready to call it a failed season. We've upgraded guard and wing, we could really go either way at the 5, and at the 4 we clearly will still need some work. That's hardly reason to say we have no shot. Long shot, maybe, but not no shot.
 
#778      

BananaShampoo

B
Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
BananaShampoo
sacraig said:
History doesn't show that freshmen don't get you to the tourney. That certainly makes it less likely, but it really depends on how fast the game slows down for them. If enough of them pick it up before, for example, the end of the non-conference schedule, then we have a chance. If it takes them a little longer, we are probably hosed. Again, I said that the odds are certainly against us, but "no shot" is patently ridiculous. Loyola had "no shot" at the Sweet 16 this year I bet.

And no, I didn't say Mark Smith was a known day 1 superstar. In fact, I think my opinion at the time was that he had a lot of potential but not a lot of experience so we should give him time to adjust to the college game. I honestly still feel that way and am legitimately disappointed that he transferred.

That said, think about what we actually have now compared to last year.
  • We've upgraded our guards (in terms of ready-to-play-now minutes) with Dosunmu and Feliz, plus more experienced Williams and Frazier.
  • We've upgraded our wing position with Jones (Griffin is a bit of an unknown) to add to Nichols and Jordan.
  • We've clearly gotten worse at the PF position with Black moving on (and a real unknown in Bezhanishvili if you consider him a PF).
  • Kane is an improvement over Finke athletically and in terms of potential, but we will have to see how well that pans out, especially as a freshman. Finke was a total no-show last year on O and D.

So no, I am not ready to call it a failed season. We've upgraded guard and wing, we could really go either way at the 5, and at the 4 we clearly will still need some work. That's hardly reason to say we have no shot. Long shot, maybe, but not no shot.
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You forgot about Ebo. I honestly felt as good or better when he was playing Finke's minutes towards the end of the season, and he's only going to improve. Also, DaMonte is a big wildcard.
 
#779      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
BananaShampoo said:
You forgot about Ebo. I honestly felt as good or better when he was playing Finke's minutes towards the end of the season, and he's only going to improve. Also, DaMonte is a big wildcard.
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Good catch on Ebo, but both he and Damonte aren't really "changes" from last year beyond their added experience. They almost definitely won't be worse than last year, though, so I'd say they are at least a wash when comparing to last season.
 
#781      

drwillini

D
drwillini
Okoro just like kenya bates diop are the kind of guys we need to lock down to get to where we want to be. This is just an indication that we are not there yet.
 
#782      

bombayIllini

B
bombayIllini
Casually browsing, came across s neat lil' stat. IL is ranked 23rd for 2018. Could have been better with some of these misses. But it is a rather neat data point. Brighter than recent past. Got to believe it will improve.
 
#783      

Illiini

Illiini
In the land of the Nittany Lion
Illiini
I think we can agree that next season's team is better than last year's team, so the question is, by how many points. And what will that mean to our ultimate w/l record?

But back to Okoro, he doesn't have the loyalty to Illinois that we all have. Oregon is exotic. Got mountains, Illinois? And Oregon can certainly sell more recent past success. Which school is more likely to get him to the NBA?

And there's the matter of the mascot. Who wouldn't want to play for a demented Donald Duck?
https://pdxpipeline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/oregon_ducks_21.gif
 
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#784      

Dbell1981

D
Decatur, IL
Dbell1981
Well im hoping we can pull Braun. The kid looked like he had some hops and also looks like he has some "swag". Maybe he catches an oop over Okoro 2 years from now in the tourney lobbed up by his brother. Go get em coach Underwood!
 
#785      

Deleted member 236589

D
Guest
Deleted member 236589
Illiini said:
I think we can agree that next season's team is better than last year's team, so the question is, by how many points. And what will that mean to our ultimate w/l record?

But back to Okoro, he doesn't have the loyalty to Illinois that we all have. Oregon is exotic. Got mountains, Illinois? And Oregon can certainly sell more recent past success. Which school is more likely to get him to the NBA?

And there's the matter of the mascot. Who wouldn't want to play for a demented Donald Duck?
https://pdxpipeline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/oregon_ducks_21.gif
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I don't agree that we're going to be better. We have projects in the paint and our one legitimate post presence is playing pto ball. Who is going to fill his void and numbers?

This team might be a little more fun to watch because of the guard play, but we're still going to give up easy buckets in the paint while not getting any.
 
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#786      

Deleted member 236589

D
Guest
Deleted member 236589
Bottom line is that it's really hard to talk to a kid who has hopes to be in the NBA in one or two years and sell him on a vision, when these other schools are selling a vision based on last year's(and the previous 5 years) results.

Hard truth is that we haven't been relevant since these kids were 5 years old. It is what it is and that's what Underwood is paid to change. Not an easy task.
 
#787      

Deleted member 4960

D
Guest
Deleted member 4960
These kids coming out of Bloomington don't have any home love for the Illini. It's home to ISU!!! Plus isn't his family from out of country and they haven't lived in Illinois for long? Those types of kids are never going to be slam dunks for us. Should we have a chance? Yes but it doesn't surprise me when they leave for elsewhere.
 
#788      

SescIllini

SescIllini
SescIllini
Chathamillini said:
These kids coming out of Bloomington don't have any home love for the Illini. It's home to ISU!!! Plus isn't his family from out of country and they haven't lived in Illinois for long? Those types of kids are never going to be slam dunks for us. Should we have a chance? Yes but it doesn't surprise me when they leave for elsewhere.
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Good points, both Keita Bates Diop and Okoro both immigrated to the area. Historically the central Illinois region there is a strong pull towards the Big state U.


Either way, Okoro is a smart and classy person. Wish him the best.
 
#789      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
We really need a 5th year who can solidify the 5 spot. Not sure it’s going to happen tho. My sights are set pretty low right now. I’d take a guy who can play defense even if he can’t score.
 
#790      

Ga65

G
Ga65
StateFarmCenter said:
Not sure why everyone would agree to that. This is arguably the worst team on paper in 20 years for us. It can't be understated what a disaster our front court is as it stands. Our 3 bigs:

Ebo: averaged 2 and 2
Kane: averaged 9 and 6....in high school
Georgi: averaged 8 and 2....in high school

It's weird that people are thinking these guys are going to come in and be positive contributors when theyve put up some of the worst stat lines of any high school recruits weve taken in.

If John Groce was coaching this team I'd say we were a lock for single digit wins. Thankfully we have Underwood who has proven to be an equalizer in the past. He has his work cut out for him here though. The backcourt is going to have to carry this team but man they need at least some help.

A 5th year transfer can change everything too.
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Not as worried about the scoring from the frontcourt. Put backs and dunks should be sufficient, defense and rebounding will be the issue. Comparison:

Black. 26.2 mins 4.8 reb 31 to's. 5 blks 64 fouls
Ebo. 14.0. 2.9. 10. 8. 43
If you prorate the mins, Ebo will exceed Black's nos if he can stay out of foul trouble. If Kane is better then the nos only improve. Also believe the combo of Kipper and Tevian will improve the offensive rebounding over Finke and Alstork. 3 pt shooting must improve as well as less overall fouls. Not a stretch IMO.
 
#791      

Newman

N
Newman
StateFarmCenter said:
Not sure why everyone would agree to that. This is arguably the worst team on paper in 20 years for us. It can't be understated what a disaster our front court is as it stands. Our 3 bigs:

Ebo: averaged 2 and 2
Kane: averaged 9 and 6....in high school
Georgi: averaged 8 and 2....in high school

It's weird that people are thinking these guys are going to come in and be positive contributors when theyve put up some of the worst stat lines of any high school recruits weve taken in.

If John Groce was coaching this team I'd say we were a lock for single digit wins. Thankfully we have Underwood who has proven to be an equalizer in the past. He has his work cut out for him here though. The backcourt is going to have to carry this team but man they need at least some help.

A 5th year transfer can change everything too.
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You should see how loaded that St. Patrick is.. There are guys that averaged 2 ppg that are committed to D1 schools. It's a very balanced team. That being said, I'm still skeptical about Bez and I don't think he'd contribute much next year. We have a huge freshman class but the only guys we need to contribute are Kane, Ayo and Jones. Anyone else would be great but I'm not having high expectations for anyone else at this point. I do expect us to be a good team next year though.
 
#792      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
StateFarmCenter said:
Not sure why everyone would agree to that. This is arguably the worst team on paper in 20 years for us. It can't be understated what a disaster our front court is as it stands. Our 3 bigs:

Ebo: averaged 2 and 2
Kane: averaged 9 and 6....in high school
Georgi: averaged 8 and 2....in high school

It's weird that people are thinking these guys are going to come in and be positive contributors when theyve put up some of the worst stat lines of any high school recruits weve taken in.

If John Groce was coaching this team I'd say we were a lock for single digit wins.
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*pokes head in door*

Anyone for trading Ayo for Castleton or Conditt yet?

*runs away*
 
#793      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
williamarthurward1.jpg
 
#797      

ole 99

O
ole 99
RockfordIllini said:
I sum, I don't think we will we be worse than last year, and could be better if Kipper/Damonte/AJ take a leap or we get lucky with a couple of the new guys.
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I honestly have no idea how good or bad we will be. I'd hope the second year in a system will help, but since we are bringing in a lot of new guys, I'm not sure how much of that matters. History would tell you don't expect much from first year players, especially post players.

Bringing this back around to recruiting, I'm onboard with the staff's recruiting strategy of bringing in bodies. Rolling over scholarships and waiting for next year has not worked. Would love to be landing all 4/5* recruits, but until then, I'm content to take a number of "projects" (hopefully with a high ceiling) and see what sticks.
 
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