Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (November-December 2018)

[Damir Krupalija’s Hair]

The fact remains that BU’s recruiting is very much on par if not ahead of Self’s to this point both nationally and in the city. I’m not sure what your recruiting concerns are with BU if Self is your measuring stick for early success.

 

[KevinC]

Would you rather have BU out on the recruiting trail or in CU trying to get a bunch of freshman up to speed so they can compete in the B1G? The fact of the matter is that most of the posts on here are unreasonable and petty. Does BU need to do better - yes, and at a lot more than recruiting Chicago. All this article shows me is that BU has his priorities straight. Recruiting the class of 2020 in Chicago is not the major issue he faces - winning basketball games so a recruit might actually want to play for ILL is.

Two things are different now compared to when Bill Self was here: (1) Self inherited a team loaded with young talent and did not have to rebuild, so he had the luxury of time to focus on recruiting for the future, and (2) the world was a lot bigger place and location played a much larger role in choice of school making it easier to recruit the Illinois kids. Is there any great teams built on local kids today - don't really know the answer to this, but I doubt Kentucky has a lot of Kentucky kids or Duke has a lot of NC kids or Kansas a lot of Kansas kids. Just who is predominantly recruiting from their own state to regularly build a quality program? There may be a few, but I am not sure who they are.

Probably should have looked at number of starters, but the overall number of homestate players on the rosters including walkons in the B1G is as follows: IN:6, MI:7, WI:4, MS:10, OSU:5, MN:7, MD:6, NE:4, PD:5, IA:9, NW:4, PS:6, RU:3, IL:7. It looks like Michigan State is the one team that can claim to be homegrown, but 5 of its 8 major contributors are from out of state. For Michigan 6 of top 7 contributors are from out of state, including top 5 scorers. Iowa may actually be closest but 3 of top 6 contributors including top 2 scorers are from out of state. Finally, our most comparable competitor is maybe Indiana, and only 2 starters and 4 of their top 10 contributors are from IN. The fact is that recruiting in state is not typical and not critical to success today. The idea that UI has or needs some special relationship with Chicago to succeed is antiquated, and to direct a disproportionate amount of effort to Chicago would be counterproductive.

x 1000

 

[Obelix]

He didn't say Bill Self originally recruited them, just that that was his first class. Also, it remains that if the player stays committed to the incoming coach, he's still in his recruiting class.

Again, that has nothing to do with Self's recruiting, it was not Self's recruiting class, and there were other glaring mistakes and omissions in the post that complimented as facts. Here are the facts about Self's recruiting:

First recruiting class: Roger Powell, Luther Head, Blandon Ferguson

Second recruiting class: Dee Brown, Deron Williams, James Augustine, Aaron Spears, Kyle Wilson, Jack Ingram (transfer from Self's previous school, Tulsa)

Third recruiting class: Rich McBride, Brian Randle, Warren Carter, Charlie Villanueva. Villanueva did not sign an LOI and specifically said that he wanted to make sure that Self was there (as the previous summer Arkansas had made strong push for him). Villanueva actually repeated that statement when interviewed at the half-time of the McD AA game. When Self left, Coach McClain said that Illinois had no chance at CV once Self left, he was a Self own recruit (actually it was a very minor violation, because in actuality McClain could not talk about CV because he was not on LOI at the time).

Overall, Self's recruiting was really good, and has always been. Unless some people have returned to 2003 when he left and a strong anti-Self sentiment persisted, it is ridiculous to claim otherwise. Furthermore, Self built, or re-built, or repaired, very strong relationships with HS, AAU, and media in record time, in a period that Illinois was boycotted. Our current recruiting is not going that well in comparison. BU and staff need to drastically change that.

 

[IlliniBrave75]

I don't understand the comparing Self to Underwood. The two coaches took over totally different programs!!!! Anyone who doen't understand that were not even close to starting on a level playing field is out of their mind!


Five years prior to Bill Self

95-96 (Lou Henson) - the team was 18-13 overall 7-11 in the BIG finishing in 9th place - the team lost in the first round of the NIT
96-97 (Lon Kruger) - the team was 22-10 overall 11-7 in the BIG finishing tied for 4th place - the team lost in the second round of NCAA
97-98 (Lon Kruger) - the team was 23-10 overall 13-3 in the BIG finishing tied for 1st place - the team lost in the second round of the NCAA
98-99 (Lon Kruger) - the team was 14-18 overall 3-13 in the BIG finishing 11th - the team did not play in post season tournament
99-00 (Lon Kruger) - the team was 22-10 overall 11-5 in the BIG finishing 4th - the team lost in the secong round of the NCAA

Self's first season roster consisted of some of the following:

Sergio McClain - SR---------------------Lucus Johnson - JR--------------------Frank Williams - RS SO
Marcus Griffin - RS SR-------------------Damir Krupalija - JR
Cory Bradford - RS JR-------------------Brian Cook - SO
Robert Archibald - JR--------------------Sean Harrington - SO


Five years prior to Brad Underwood

12-13 (John Groce) - the team was 23-13 overall 8-10 in the BIG finishing tied for 7th place - the team lost in the second round of NCAA (not counting first 4 games)
13-14 (John Groce) - the team was 20-15 overall 7-11 in the BIG finishing tied for 8th place - the team lost in the second round of the NIT
14-15 (John Groce) - the team was 19-14 overall 9-9 in the BIG finishing tied for 7th place - the team lost in the first round of the NIT
15-16 (John Groce) - the team was 15-19 overall 5-13 in the BIG finishing 12th place - the team did not play in a post season tournament
16-17 (John Groce and Jamaal Walker) - the team finshed 20-15 overall 8-10 in the BIG finishing 9th place - the team lost in the third round of NIT

Underwood's first season roster consited of some of the following:

Mark Alstork - SR---------------------Kipper Nichols - RS SO---------------------Mark Smith - FR
Aaron Jordon - JR---------------------Tejon Lucus - SO
Leron Black - RS JR-------------------Trent Frazier - FR
Michael Finke - RS JR-----------------Da'Monte Williams - FR

 

[Deleted member 6376]

Again, that has nothing to do with Self's recruiting, it was not Self's recruiting class, and there were other glaring mistakes and omissions in the post that complimented as facts. Here are the facts about Self's recruiting:

First recruiting class: Roger Powell, Luther Head, Blandon Ferguson

Second recruiting class: Dee Brown, Deron Williams, James Augustine, Aaron Spears, Kyle Wilson, Jack Ingram (transfer from Self's previous school, Tulsa)

Third recruiting class: Rich McBride, Brian Randle, Warren Carter, Charlie Villanueva. Villanueva did not sign an LOI and specifically said that he wanted to make sure that Self was there (as the previous summer Arkansas had made strong push for him). Villanueva actually repeated that statement when interviewed at the half-time of the McD AA game. When Self left, Coach McClain said that Illinois had no chance at CV once Self left, he was a Self own recruit (actually it was a very minor violation, because in actuality McClain could not talk about CV because he was not on LOI at the time).

Overall, Self's recruiting was really good, and has always been. Unless some people have returned to 2003 when he left and a strong anti-Self sentiment persisted, it is ridiculous to claim otherwise. Furthermore, Self built, or re-built, or repaired, very strong relationships with HS, AAU, and media in record time, in a period that Illinois was boycotted. Our current recruiting is not going that well in comparison. BU and staff need to drastically change that.

Bingo. Right answer.

 

[Dbell1981]

Sure, theres always going to be people who aren't happy with the current team makeup, or how the HC acts, or how recruiting is going, but winning cures all. Those people will be rightfully chastised if BU starts fielding legit contender teams, with legit talent.

Enlighten me the last time a team filled with 3 stars (who actually played meaningful minutes) won the ship. It's a chicken and egg comparison when talking about recruiting and winning, but the fact is to win at the highest level, you have to have the highest talent. UConn is probably you're best comparison (at least the Ollie win), but Boatwright and Nappier were at least 4 star guys, and I would assume they had a couple more highly touted recruits. There's a reaason teams like Duke and Kentucky win ships. Sure, cinderellas appear, but at a high major, getting to the E8/S16 once every 5 or 6 years isn't gonna cut it.

Admittedly, we need to walk before we run (perhaps crawl at this point). As the wins grow, so should the recruiting. I don't expect to pull top talent now, but it's going to have to happen, and it appears BU isn't a good enough recruiter to pull talent before winning, so that's gotta happen too.

At the end of the day, what Whitman has preached about our football program holds true for basketball. There needs to be clear, continuous growth. BU is going to have to take the wins route to that, rather than the recruiting.

I said 25 wins, not win the National title.

 

[Obelix]

Would you agree that Self stepped into a much better situation and team then what Underwood has?

Of course he did, we have been kind of irrelevant for the last 12+ years and the reason, as I have always claimed, is lack of overall B1G talent level with glaring positional gaps (with the lone exception IMO of 2010-11). Others have claimed that talent was always there, just lack of coaching. But even Bruce Weber proved (one of the worst program fits IMO) that given some talent, especially if some have developed some chemistry between them (e.g., Dee, Deron), we can still do great. Self inherited a program in better shape, and actually had great impact with his recruiting and building/mending relationships with HS, AAU, and media in a very tough period that Illinois was boycotted. If you see anyone claiming otherwise please quote and argue with them.

But let's not try to compare BU and Self as recruiters, not even in the same stratosphere. Recruiting has not been going well, and it seems that there are currently some issues/problems with our relationships in the state. I also do not believe that if you are pretty much an NIT program (with the exception of 2012-13 where we overachieved), that you have to drop the program to the bottom of the B1G to supposedly start some miraculous ascend. Why? Come on, fans thought that we will replace Groce because he was an NIT coach and could not make the NCAA consistently (and rightfully so) and we will hire a coach, drop to the bottom of the B1G, and then maybe in year 4 we make the NCAA? I think it is disingenuous to claim that.

We need a very strong recruiter, the program needs a very strong recruiter even more that it needed back in 2000, because exactly that, we are in worse shape, but not a dumpster fire as people claim. Being and NIT program and wanting to become an NCAA program is not the impossibility that some posters claim, neither should it take 4 years, neither does it mean that we should have empty recruiting classes currently and scrambling for recruits to fill huge gaps in the Spring running out of OVs. BU and staff need to drastically change that, because right now, we are simply not on the right path. JMO.

 

[Damir Krupalija’s Hair]

Of course he did, we have been kind of irrelevant for the last 12+ years and the reason, as I have always claimed, is lack of overall B1G talent level with glaring positional gaps (with the lone exception IMO of 2010-11). Others have claimed that talent was always there, just lack of coaching. But even Bruce Weber proved (one of the worst program fits IMO) that given some talent, especially if some have developed some chemistry between them (e.g., Dee, Deron), we can still do great. Self inherited a program in better shape, and actually had great impact with his recruiting and building/mending relationships with HS, AAU, and media in a very tough period that Illinois was boycotted. If you see anyone claiming otherwise please quote and argue with them.

But let's not try to compare BU and Self as recruiters, not even in the same stratosphere. Recruiting has not been going well, and it seems that there are currently some issues/problems with our relationships in the state. I also do not believe that if you are pretty much an NIT program (with the exception of 2012-13 where we overachieved), that you have to drop the program to the bottom of the B1G to supposedly start some miraculous ascend. Why? Come on, fans thought that we will replace Groce because he was an NIT coach and could not make the NCAA consistently (and rightfully so) and we will hire a coach, drop to the bottom of the B1G, and then maybe in year 4 we make the NCAA? I think it is disingenuous to claim that.

We need a very strong recruiter, the program needs a very strong recruiter even more that it needed back in 2000, because exactly that, we are in worse shape, but not a dumpster fire as people claim. Being and NIT program and wanting to become an NCAA program is not the impossibility that some posters claim, neither should it take 4 years, neither does it mean that we should have empty recruiting classes currently and scrambling for recruits to fill huge gaps in the Spring running out of OVs. BU and staff need to drastically change that, because right now, we are simply not on the right path. JMO.

What’s missing in all of this are your reasons for why you’re unsatisfied with the recruiting (and I’m not getting any work done). “It appears there are some problems with relationships in the state” is what the problem is?

You’re all time favorite recruiter, Willy Self, did not recruit to this level upon his arrival in CU. The Dee, Deron (Deron’s 3rd school choice) class will always be legendary, and he has recruited to KU, so no one will dispute that he’s a great recruiter. But at the very least, you should be encouraged by BU just based off of the fact he’s actually outrecruited Bill to this point and the brand is atrocious. I’d be curious to know what you feel a strong recruiter is and why BU in a year and a half hasn’t fit that mold...

 

[Deleted member 746094]

This was said by someone earlier and I am reversing course from some of my earlier posts as I allowed my self to be brainwashed by some posters’ constant messaging of doubt and negativity.

How can we judge BU’s recruiting thus far beyond the “rankings” as he truly only has one full recruiting class on the current roster. The 17’ class was solidified commmitments from Groce’s staff and scrapping together the rest. Our 18’ class thus far looks pretty solid in regards to potential. Ayo will most likely be here until his JR year where I can see him being AllB10 calibur and a 1st rounder. Giorgi will be a force by senior year. Never going to be an AllB10 guy, but will get 12 and 6 junior and senior year and provide leadership and continuity this program desperately needs over the next 2 to 4 years. AG has to work on ball handling and defense, but has the potential to be a real offensive threat by his junior year. Samba could be an absolute stud by junior year for us. Verdict is still out on TJ and AH.

If we can hold this roster together, get January signed and on campus, and add a sure to impact wing in 19’ then I think we have the nucleus to win next year and attract higher level talent in subsequent years. The dream of McDAAs from Chicago, when they actually have one again, funneling down here has never happened and most likely won’t. The top players from Chicago will want to come here if we get back to the top of the Big Ten. By that time we could have a national presence in recruiting and may find better players elsewhere. I think we need to give BU a chance to recruit, coach and build this program with his players. I think AJ sticking around and his constant articulation of what the bigger plan is for UofI basketball says a lot about BU and what is really going on behind the scenes.

 

[RockfordIllini]

Also, re: Brand. Another thing Bill Self may have had going for him was Ubben, which I believe was state of the art circa 2000 but has since been surpassed by many a program and no is no more than middle of the road facility-wise.

 

[Obelix]

BU just based off of the fact he’s actually outrecruited Bill to this point

You can say that as many times as you want but it is certainly not true. At the same point 1.5 years into their tenure, Bill Self had already signed Roger Powell, Luther Head, Blandon Ferguson, Dee Brown, Deron Williams, James Augustine, Aaron Spears, and Kyle Wilson.

Recruiting has not been going well, let alone comparing BU and Self as recruiters, which is ludicrous. Also, not sure what being the 2nd, 3rd, or 100th original choice has anything to do. If a coach can convince and sign a top-50 recruit as good as Deron, even after having a McD AA PG recruit, I do not care even if we were their 1000th choice or millionth choice.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

And this is 100% right. Given the recruiting curve, I think BU is doing a pretty good job. I mean, where the program was when he took over compared to any other era, it’s not even close. Just keep building.

The relationships are fine with everyone but Robert Smith, so who cares. That article was a joke. I think BU has the personality for Chicago...for the record. That Simeon relationship will magically get better once we start winning again.

LOL.

You're the one who stepped in to make the straight up comparison between the two. Now you want to change the rules for the comparison?

I'm not as concerned as some about what's happening on the recruiting side. But I sure as hell am not going to remotely try to use Bill Self as some example of how well BU is doing. Self is an elite recruiter, it pretty much was demonstrated from the get go and it resulted in our most historic season.

At this point, if you're trying to support the current coach, you're better off just logging off, because you're arguments set the case backwards.

 

[Obelix]

Also, re: Brand. Another thing Bill Self may have had going for him was Ubben, which I believe was state of the art circa 2000 but has since been surpassed by many a program and no is no more than middle of the road facility-wise.

We also just completed a major, major, multi-million renovation and re-branding of the Assembly Hall (SFC), which everyone though would have a major impact, and it has had zero impact. The very aging 40-yr old Assembly Hall with no AC was a major disadvantage back then.

 

[OrangeSoda]

You can say that as many times as you want but it is certainly not true. At the same point 1.5 years into their tenure, Bill Self had already signed Roger Powell, Luther Head, Blandon Ferguson, Dee Brown, Deron Williams, James Augustine, Aaron Spears, and Kyle Wilson.

Recruiting has not been going well, let alone comparing BU and Self as recruiters, which is ludicrous. Also, not sure what being the 2nd, 3rd, or 100th original choice has anything to do. If a coach can convince and sign a top-50 recruit as good as Deron, even after having a McD AA PG recruit, I do not care even if we were their 1000th choice or millionth choice.

Yes comparing Self and Underwood IS ludicrous based on the very different conditions they walked into. Self was handed the keys to a borderline blueblood program on the rise. What was Underwood handed?

Yet BU has recruited extremely well in his first 1.5 years for a program in a never ending sinkhole. That is the point everyone is trying to make to you but you refuse to take it at face value. BU cannot be Self because he has to build this thing out of the sinkhole. Give him time to do that.

 

[Deleted member 643761]

What’s missing in all of this are your reasons for why you’re unsatisfied with the recruiting (and I’m not getting any work done). “It appears there are some problems with relationships in the state” is what the problem is?

You’re all time favorite recruiter, Willy Self, did not recruit to this level upon his arrival in CU. The Dee, Deron (Deron’s 3rd school choice) class will always be legendary, and he has recruited to KU, so no one will dispute that he’s a great recruiter. But at the very least, you should be encouraged by BU just based off of the fact he’s actually outrecruited Bill to this point and the brand is atrocious. I’d be curious to know what you feel a strong recruiter is and why BU in a year and a half hasn’t fit that mold...

I doubt we were Deron's third choice. Probably more like 7th or 8th since he no doubt would have loved to have gone to Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and North Carolina.

But of course, that's pretty much irrelevant. Maybe you can convince 247 to commission you to do class rankings and knock teams down a bit if they get a five star that wanted to go somewhere else.

 

[Dan]

Illinois head coach Brad Underwood and asst Orlando Antigua will be at @CityOfPalmsBKB tonight for Kofi Cockburn and Christian Brown of Oak Hill, per source.
https://www.flohoops.com/articles/6...rn-talks-transition-to-oak-hill-top-5-schools

 

[bombayIllini]

Illinois head coach Brad Underwood and asst Orlando Antigua will be at @CityOfPalmsBKB tonight for Kofi Cockburn and Christian Brown of Oak Hill, per source.
https://www.flohoops.com/articles/6...rn-talks-transition-to-oak-hill-top-5-schools

Have we offered Brown?

 

[Dan]

#Illini assistant Chin Coleman is in Vegas for the Tarkanian Classic. Will see top-100 commit @antwanjanuary & 5-star guard @kyreewalker1 for Hillcrest today. As well as @NimariBurnett & @colehawk23 for Prolific Prep.
Will watch DJ Steward (@swipasnipa) & Whitney Young tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/DPiper247/

 

[IlliniBrave75]

City of Palms: Christian Brown valued by a group of five

Illinois: “I am talking about going up there for a visit. I haven’t been up there to the campus but the coaches have been telling me that it is a good school and
Kofi (Cockburn) is getting recruited there, too.”

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/city-of-palms-christian-brown-valued-by-a-group-of-five

 

[goillini30]

DJ Williams not working out might be an Illinois problem, but he does now play in a lower league. That likely has something to do with it.

Kendrick Nunn not working out was a Kendrick Nunn problem, not an Illinois problem.

DJ had 17 in back to back games vs Virginia and Michigan, so he produced against top level teams. Although obviously its harder to produce like that day in and day out.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Again, that has nothing to do with Self's recruiting, it was not Self's recruiting class, and there were other glaring mistakes and omissions in the post that complimented as facts. Here are the facts about Self's recruiting:

First recruiting class: Roger Powell, Luther Head, Blandon Ferguson

Second recruiting class: Dee Brown, Deron Williams, James Augustine, Aaron Spears, Kyle Wilson, Jack Ingram (transfer from Self's previous school, Tulsa)

Third recruiting class: Rich McBride, Brian Randle, Warren Carter, Charlie Villanueva. Villanueva did not sign an LOI and specifically said that he wanted to make sure that Self was there (as the previous summer Arkansas had made strong push for him). Villanueva actually repeated that statement when interviewed at the half-time of the McD AA game. When Self left, Coach McClain said that Illinois had no chance at CV once Self left, he was a Self own recruit (actually it was a very minor violation, because in actuality McClain could not talk about CV because he was not on LOI at the time).

Overall, Self's recruiting was really good, and has always been. Unless some people have returned to 2003 when he left and a strong anti-Self sentiment persisted, it is ridiculous to claim otherwise. Furthermore, Self built, or re-built, or repaired, very strong relationships with HS, AAU, and media in record time, in a period that Illinois was boycotted. Our current recruiting is not going that well in comparison. BU and staff need to drastically change that.

Frazier, Da'Monte and Mark Smith 2 years ago, top 20 or so class last year with Ayo, Giorgi, Griff, Kane and Jones all showing promise. To say recruiting isn't going well simply isn't based in reality. Yeah, we ended up losing Smith a year later, but things happen in the real world. Give me January or Cockburn this year and I think we're building a real winner. I could care less about what Self or anyone else did years ago in recruiting.

 

[Joel Goodson]

We also just completed a major, major, multi-million renovation and re-branding of the Assembly Hall (SFC), which everyone though would have a major impact, and it has had zero impact. The very aging 40-yr old Assembly Hall with no AC was a major disadvantage back then.

Don't need no dadgum AC during hoops season!

 

[Deleted member 633632]

Rivals reporter Doug Bucshon has called the sun times article an absurdity and untrue.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1074764464858251264

The comment thread from this article is pretty interesting.

 

[PlayAZ]

I doubt we were Deron's third choice. Probably more like 7th or 8th since he no doubt would have loved to have gone to Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and North Carolina.

But of course, that's pretty much irrelevant. Maybe you can convince 247 to commission you to do class rankings and knock teams down a bit if they get a five star that wanted to go somewhere else.

Which brings into question in todays climate and where Illinois currently sits recruiting wise, why not use to our advantage if we can...

Hey Deron wasn't sure about coming here, look what he made his decision into....Final Four, First Rd draft pick, long NBA career....etc etc

 

[TCTORNADO]

It looks like the DIA is supplying Piper with copies of the staff's recruiting itineraries.