Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)

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#1
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Early Signing Period: Nov. 14th-21st



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Recently Completed Illinois Official Visits

Drew Timme (Commitment announcement: Nov. 14th)
Quincy Guerrier (Committed to Syracuse on Oct. 31st)
EJ Liddell (Committed to Ohio State on Oct. 1st)
Terrence Shannon
Oscar Tshiebwe (Committed to West Virginia on Oct. 20th)
Anthony Walker (Committed to Miami FL on Oct. 20th)



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rbachhuber's Scholarship Grid
Updated 10/28/2018

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Recruiting Calendar | Recruiting FAQs
 
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#4
Starting off the new thread with optimism after lots of pessimism (including myself) finished off the last thread.

I can dig it. :thumb:
Lots of recruits out there and lots of good basketball schools out there. We'll get our pieces and get our wins once they're here. I like a top 200 kid that plays his role on the team and gets better over time. I'll also take a recruiting loss to UK or OSU any day as long as we get one that comes here instead of a place like OSU or UK occasionally. We're on the cusp.
 
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#7
I am forbidding myself to enter the recruiting thread anymore after this. I can't take it. I am to weak. Once we start winning this year, I'll come back. It is the only thing that will bring us top recruits. Ayo's don't just grow on trees.
 
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#8
Once we start winning this year, I'll come back. It is the only thing that will bring us top recruits. Ayo's don't just grow on trees.
And yet, despite being 17-37 in the Big Ten over the past 3 years, our tree has sprouted an Ayo.

I once again just marvel at the way people say "we're going to have to win before we can get the recruits" with the plain implication being that having teenagers show appreciation and validation of our obsession on the internet is the REAL goal, and that actually winning freakin' basketball games is just a means to that end.



The truth, the actual, objective, quantifiable truth, just nukes the whole Loyalty narrative of the past decade to ashes. It's a fiction. It's a fairytale. We have ALWAYS had the players.

The trouble is, for the context of this thread, is that we've always had the players because we've always actually recruited quite well, but at the moment we don't have a single player for this class. Let's focus on redressing that, rather than making pathetic doe eyes at players we all know we aren't getting.
 
#10
Please have some patience people. The arrow is pointing up right now. One of our best teams lost their only point guard mid season. If that happens now, we have several options. I think this team will surprise some people this season. And yes, winning is the solution to the problem, if there is one.
 
#11
And yet, despite being 17-37 in the Big Ten over the past 3 years, our tree has sprouted an Ayo.

I once again just marvel at the way people say "we're going to have to win before we can get the recruits" with the plain implication being that having teenagers show appreciation and validation of our obsession on the internet is the REAL goal, and that actually winning freakin' basketball games is just a means to that end.



The truth, the actual, objective, quantifiable truth, just nukes the whole Loyalty narrative of the past decade to ashes. It's a fiction. It's a fairytale. We have ALWAYS had the players.

The trouble is, for the context of this thread, is that we've always had the players because we've always actually recruited quite well, but at the moment we don't have a single player for this class. Let's focus on redressing that, rather than making pathetic doe eyes at players we all know we aren't getting.
The graph clearly shows we underperformed but I also believe our recruiting rankings outpaced the actual talent of several players we recruited and signed. In short, we have rarely found the diamonds-in-the-rough and a significant portion of our higher ranked recruits were free-falling from where they were as younger players. We have had problems developing players and we have also consistently lost players before they play out their Illini career.

I don't have any reason to believe we have no chance with the top guys we are still recruiting. If we don't get any of those guys I will start to be more concerned with this class. I'm of the mind that a commitment from Oscar T, for instance, would make any 2019 class solid. And EJ was predicted to go elsewhere for a long time at this point. As soon as we missed on Goodwin, lost Tilmon and Pickett and then Smith transferred you could pretty well guarantee that EJ wasn't coming here. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to get spurned by yet another top player from Illinois (and a downstate kid) but it is what it is, the writing has been on the wall.
 
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#12
a significant portion of our higher ranked recruits were free-falling from where they were as younger players
All of the rankings reflected in that graph are the final ones, the ones immediately upon entering college. That's not giving Jereme Richmond credit for being a top 5 player in the country, nor Myke Henry credit for being a 5 star.

But you're right that we haven't always scouted well for our system, we have often had positional and class imbalances, some of our brightest talents haven't finished their careers here, and our player development has been nothing short of horrific. That is EXACTLY my point.

What we have had, what that data makes utterly indisputable, is wins on the recruiting trail of highly ranked players at a very high competitive level in conference. We HAVE gotten the hat-off-the-table internet validation, that sweet elixir to which Loyalty is addicted, more so than most of our competitors. And we've done NOTHING with it. We've lit it on fire and thrown it in the dumpster, across now three different coaching administrations.

I guess I'm as guilty as any of you, because I'm as desperate to see the light come on in some fellow posters' heads as most of you are to see a narratively meaningful recruit see your inner beauty, reject the popular girls and choose you to dance with at the prom.
 
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#14
Please have some patience people. The arrow is pointing up right now. One of our best teams lost their only point guard mid season. If that happens now, we have several options. I think this team will surprise some people this season. And yes, winning is the solution to the problem, if there is one.
How is only have two (three if you wanna count Adonis) C options not eerily similar to our PG problems with Tracy, Jaylon, and Khalid? Heck, I'd bet (at least for this next year) that Tracy was a better starting PG than Giorgi or Samba will be. Now, backup wise the C situation might look brighter, but inexperience is huge, especially for bigs.

We traded our PG problem for a C problem (and honestly, a PF problem too). We lose Samba or Giorgi, and we are in just as much crap as we were when Tracy went down, maybe even more. Malcolm at PG was more effective than Kipper will be defending 6'11"+ guys in the paint constantly. Spin it how you want, but the fact is we missed on all our high PF/C targets, just like Groce did with PG. At least Groce had a good excuse of Snider spurning us at the 11th hour.
 
#16
At least Groce had a good excuse of Snider spurning us at the 11th hour.
That was not a good excuse, as that's a position where you ought to be bringing in one a year.

"Bigs" generally is even more so that way. It absolutely beggars belief that we weren't able to nail down a prospect we liked early in the process to get the class started. A body to give us depth there would have had zero impact on any of these bigger recruitments.

I suppose you could argue that Giorgi and Higgs were that, and that they just happen to be available to us a year early. But my confidence level that either guy will return for 2019-20 isn't all that high after what we saw last year.
 
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#17
All of the rankings reflected in that graph are the final ones, the ones immediately upon entering college. That's not giving Jereme Richmond credit for being a top 5 player in the country, nor Myke Henry credit for being a 5 star.

But you're right that we haven't always scouted well for our system, we have often had positional and class imbalances, some of our brightest talents haven't finished their careers here, and our player development has been nothing short of horrific. That is EXACTLY my point.

What we have had, what that data makes utterly indisputable, is wins on the recruiting trail of highly ranked players at a very high competitive level in conference. We HAVE gotten the hat-off-the-table internet validation, that sweet elixir to which Loyalty is addicted, more so than most of our competitors. And we've done NOTHING with it. We've lit it on fire and thrown it in the dumpster, across now three different coaching administrations.

I guess I'm as guilty as any of you, because I'm as desperate to see the light come on in some fellow posters' heads as most of you are to see a narratively meaningful recruit see your inner beauty, reject the popular girls and choose you to dance with at the prom.
No mention of Mike Shaw, Joe Bertrand, Carlwell, etc.... Oh yeah, that doesn't fit the narrative you are pushing. There were several that under performed once they arrived. That's where it gets confusing. People complain that Weber should have went for players that were a "better fit" but then people would have complained that they didn't have shiny stars on their resume.
 
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#18
People complain that Weber should have went for players that were a "better fit" but then people would have complained that they didn't have shiny stars on their resume.
Weber listened to complainers on the internet, and that's why he doesn't coach here anymore.

And again, this idea that it was completely knowable that Mike Shaw and Brian Carlwell were totally useless players from the moment they committed is such revisionist garbage it barely merits a response. That's not what a single soul said at the time and you perfectly well know it.

Anything, ANYTHING, throw any combination of words you can find at the truth to make it go away and let Loyalty get back to holding up a boombox outside the house of whoever the next Diane Court is. This one will understand how special we are.

IllinoisLloydDobler.com
 
#22
Weber listened to complainers on the internet, and that's why he doesn't coach here anymore.

And again, this idea that it was completely knowable that Mike Shaw and Brian Carlwell were totally useless players from the moment they committed is such revisionist garbage it barely merits a response. That's not what a single soul said at the time and you perfectly well know it.

Anything, ANYTHING, throw any combination of words you can find at the truth to make it go away and let Loyalty get back to holding up a boombox outside the house of whoever the next Diane Court is. This one will understand how special we are.

IllinoisLloydDobler.com
Don't give our fans any ideas.
 
#23
Weber listened to complainers on the internet, and that's why he doesn't coach here anymore.

And again, this idea that it was completely knowable that Mike Shaw and Brian Carlwell were totally useless players from the moment they committed is such revisionist garbage it barely merits a response. That's not what a single soul said at the time and you perfectly well know it.

Anything, ANYTHING, throw any combination of words you can find at the truth to make it go away and let Loyalty get back to holding up a boombox outside the house of whoever the next Diane Court is. This one will understand how special we are.

IllinoisLloydDobler.com
Well, there were lots of questions about Carlwell after the Oden game.

And pretty much everyone (not no one) realized that Shaw wasn't going to be the player that people thought when he was younger. "not a single soul" pretty much should be replaced with "most people who weren't drunk on orange kool aid".
 
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#24
And again, this idea that it was completely knowable that Mike Shaw and Brian Carlwell were totally useless players from the moment they committed is such revisionist garbage it barely merits a response. That's not what a single soul said at the time and you perfectly well know it.
I did watch both Carlwell and Shaw in HS and while you are right that the vast majority had over-valued their abilities at the time, I did unfortunately post that Carlwell was very overrated and caught many negative responses as a result. But Carlwelll was vastly overrated, independent of the accident. Shaw was good as a freshman in HS, I though he would develop more. Very close friends with Wayne Blackshear, they had expressed interest to play together but by the time their recruitment rolled around they had opposite trajectories and unfortunately for Shaw, it was downwards.

Much of Shaw's career in college was really dominated by injuries, eventually he had to retire from college early. The family believes that some of the lingering injury effects started in HS, way before much more serious injuries dominated in college. Without the medical problems and lingering injuries, Shaw may had ended up a different player based on his early (freshman in HS) days.
 
#25
Well, there were lots of questions about Carlwell after the Oden game.
Very true and other games I had watched as well. But that game against Oden really exposed some of his limitations to many observers. Obviously, Oden was so dominant in HS that some discarded the real impact of that game, but it did cast significant doubt.
 
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