Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)

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#751      

Soulberries

University of Illinois
Big Ten Basketball Coaches Rank the Best Jobs in the Conference

7. Illinois (62) – The Illini haven’t won a national title, but went to the championship game in 2005 and have been to four other Final Fours – in 1949, 1951, 1952 and 1989. There’s a decent tradition, but the fans are a little unrealistic with regards to expectations. Bill Self was successful in his brief stint, Bruce Weber went to six NCAA tournaments from 2003-12, but John Groce struggled in his time in Champaign.

Where they win: “Location. Chicago has a ton of players.” – Big Ten head coach

The knock: “The fan base has no clue – such unrealistic expectations. They are nuts. Plus, Chicago has players – but it might take a little more than a scholarship to get a lot of them.” – Big Ten assistant coach


https://watchstadium.com/news/big-t...nce-10-11-2018/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I have to say that some of these rankings surprised me. Illinois is the 5th easiest school to get into? I find it hard to believe that we're 5th and OSU is 9th.

Purdue has a bigger budget/more resources than we do? Are our facilities really 11th with the SFC renovation?

The Game Atmosphere 10th place ranking is very sad, and I can't say I disagree with it. It wasn't always like that.
 
#752      
Starting with the Lou Henson tenure, so '74-'18, we've averaged 4.9 place in the conference.
 
#753      

Deleted member 654622

D
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tenor.gif
Freeking love that movie
 
#754      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
Starting with the Lou Henson tenure, so '74-'18, we've averaged 4.9 place in the conference.
It's amazing what age and when one started to follow Illinois basketball does to perception. I really started to follow Illinois basketball in Krugers 2nd year at Illinois. My first 10 years as an Illini fan saw them win or share the regular season 5 times, and finish outside the top 3 once. When that is the foundation of when you became a fan, its hard to ever really change expectations.
 
#755      

UofIChE06

Pittsburgh
I have to say that some of these rankings surprised me. Illinois is the 5th easiest school to get into? I find it hard to believe that we're 5th and OSU is 9th.

Purdue has a bigger budget/more resources than we do? Are our facilities really 11th with the SFC renovation?

The Game Atmosphere 10th place ranking is very sad, and I can't say I disagree with it. It wasn't always like that.

Facilities has more to do with gyms, training, etc than the game day arena.
 
#756      

westms77

Gilbert, AZ
It is really hard for me to see how expecting more from our team than we have seen in the last 10 years is unrealistic. Just wanting to be relevant and make the tourney most years seems reasonable to me.

Exactly...An expectation of getting some good/decent recruits and comfortably making the tournament most years is hardly unrealistic at Illinois
 
#757      
Maybe because the writing was on the wall? Pure speculation, but if we're not a primary contender (as judged by staff, who ostensibly should know), it's time to pull the plug. Especially, for a plan B/C guy and in light of limited OVs.

Maybe it's total coincidence, but it seem odd to cancel both recruit's visits.
 
#759      

ivwilsoniv

Aurora, IL
Big Ten Basketball Coaches Rank the Best Jobs in the Conference

7. Illinois (62) – The Illini haven’t won a national title, but went to the championship game in 2005 and have been to four other Final Fours – in 1949, 1951, 1952 and 1989. There’s a decent tradition, but the fans are a little unrealistic with regards to expectations. Bill Self was successful in his brief stint, Bruce Weber went to six NCAA tournaments from 2003-12, but John Groce struggled in his time in Champaign.

https://watchstadium.com/news/big-t...nce-10-11-2018/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Can someone calculate what rank Illinois would be if facilities were improved to the best in the B1G (and bumped everyone else down a slot)? All other (debtable) variables being the same? I don't have time to run that math right now.
 
#760      
Can someone calculate what rank Illinois would be if facilities were improved to the best in the B1G (and bumped everyone else down a slot)? All other (debtable) variables being the same? I don't have time to run that math right now.

Not sure why that's relevant. We don't have the best facilities in the B1G and won't for anytime in the foreseeable future.
 
#761      
I agree that he should ultimately be at fault but my opinion is that it is a little early to consider his recruiting a complete failure. He kept Trent on board, has Ayo and a few other intriguing pieces in this class in my eyes. Mark Smith was not a good fit but he did seal his recruitment. The guys he scrambled to get: Matic, and Ibo were not recruits he had developed long relationships with before he was here. He needed bodies no matter what. Let the man and his staff settle in and build some relationships around here. My point is he will eventually start landing kids he has been recruiting for a few years instead of a few months and the team turnover will become less of a problem every year. Even the kids they are recruiting now they have only been on for a year or 2. Some of you want to apply round up before the staff can even get a good root system going on here. This is gonna be a process that may take a year or 2 longer than we all want. Just like the football program, let's give it time.
Great response I agree!! Been a fan for over 53 years seen good and bad. Give Underwood a chance he came into a mess that he is still cleaning up!
 
#762      

IllFanInMi

I
Guest
I'm not sure what happened to the rest of my quote but I thought I included a snippet on Maryland. Maryland had a strong stretch in the 90s and early 2000s that is just as good as our best stretch of basketball so I disagree that Maryland shouldn't be better than us. I think we're in the same tier and considering how much UA has skyrocketed in recent years, I would give them the edge and believe they have more potential than us as a program moving forward. I agree with the latter and I think we can rebound to being a top 5 team in the conference on average, but I do believe that article stating that we can have unreasonable fans that expect us to be like Michigan, MSU, and Indiana. We are not in that tier but we had potential if it wasn't for the factors you stated later in your post.

Let’s not forget that Michigan went through long stretches of being bad in between good, can’t remember all the coaches, but Tommy Ammaker was one after Fisher ran it down. Sure we all remember the 89 champion team and the Fab 5 and their recent runs with Beilein, but 89 to now is a lot of years.

MSU has history with Magic, Vincent, Kelso, Steve Smith Skyles, etc... during Jud Heathcotes tenure, but they were nowhere near the near Blue Blood they’ve been under Izzo; they too had long stretches of meh.

Izzo has taken MSU to near Blue Blood status, which is not where our expectations should be, but I see no reason why we shouldn’t expect to be on or above par with SCUM!
 
#763      

Illwinsagain

Cary, IL
Let’s not forget that Michigan went through long stretches of being bad in between good, can’t remember all the coaches, but Tommy Ammaker was one after Fisher ran it down. Sure we all remember the 89 champion team and the Fab 5 and their recent runs with Beilein, but 89 to now is a lot of years.

MSU has history with Magic, Vincent, Kelso, Steve Smith Skyles, etc... during Jud Heathcotes tenure, but they were nowhere near the near Blue Blood they’ve been under Izzo; they too had long stretches of meh.

Izzo has taken MSU to near Blue Blood status, which is not where our expectations should be, but I see no reason why we shouldn’t expect to be on or above par with SCUM!

I don't seem to recall that team, so I went to look them up, hmmm, not there....;)
 
#764      

Deleted member 643761

D
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Yes, but we are talking about the attainability of the Illini becoming a consistent top-4 program in the B1G, not the attainability of the aforementioned period. The period mentioned, we exceeded that by a lot. Not only were we the #1 program in the B1G during that period but IIRC from a statistic I had seen, the only program with a better record in the entire country during that period was Duke.
We were killed twice by scandal. Take out those we might be a blue blood
 
#766      

sacraig

The desert
Can someone calculate what rank Illinois would be if facilities were improved to the best in the B1G (and bumped everyone else down a slot)? All other (debtable) variables being the same? I don't have time to run that math right now.

That seems to upgrade us to 5th, assuming that all they did in the article was average our ranking in each category and then order the schools by that average. A little success and fan support, leading to a jump to 5th in atmosphere would then bump us up to 4th.

Not sure why that's relevant. We don't have the best facilities in the B1G and won't for anytime in the foreseeable future.

It's relevant because that is one thing that could be fixed with basically one big influx of cash, independent of coaching and recruiting and recent success and prior history, etc. Also, we may not have the best soon, but we should have a pretty nice upgrade soon since Ubben is getting renovated.
 
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#767      

sacraig

The desert
The recruits don't have to remember the 89 team when they can look at the 2014 and 2018 team that made the National Championship game. I think we are capable of having the same ceiling as a program but they are clearly in a different tier. I don't expect the next decade to look like the past one for us. Despite these posts, I think BU is a good fit for the program but has some clear weaknesses with recruiting. I think he'll figure it out but I think that'll force us to be more patient with the process of making our program respectable again.

Different tier currently, yes. Overall? Quite similar with the one championship being the primary difference.

The original analogy is pretty apt, too. Michigan was pretty awful program for a while until Beilein righted the ship. When he took over in 2007, he couldn't point to recent success like he can now, yet he still succeeded. Notably, it took him until is 4th season before he finished in the top half of the Big Ten, and then his team won the Big Ten in his 5th season.
 
#769      
That seems to upgrade us to 5th, assuming that all they did in the article was average our ranking in each category and then order the schools by that average. A little success and fan support, leading to a jump to 5th in atmosphere would then bump us up to 4th.



It's relevant because that is one thing that could be fixed with basically one big influx of cash, independent of coaching and recruiting and recent success and prior history, etc. Also, we may not have the best soon, but we should have a pretty nice upgrade soon since Ubben is getting renovated.

I’ll rephrase. I’m not sure why we are concerned with getting “bumped up” in these random coaches rankings that they each probably filled out in 90 seconds. I’d rather focus on getting bumped up the conference standings rather than have Izzo and Archie think we have a cool practice facility.
 
#770      

ivwilsoniv

Aurora, IL
That seems to upgrade us to 5th, assuming that all they did in the article was average our ranking in each category and then order the schools by that average. A little success and fan support, leading to a jump to 5th in atmosphere would then bump us up to 4th.

It's relevant because that is one thing that could be fixed with basically one big influx of cash, independent of coaching and recruiting and recent success and prior history, etc. Also, we may not have the best soon, but we should have a pretty nice upgrade soon since Ubben is getting renovated.

Right, @220Illini. I was trying to split out things that the athletics department/fans can control (e.g. facilities, gameday atmosphere) from things they can't (recruiting base, media exposure, admissions requirements). With money for renovations and a little more passion, we jump from middle of the pack to top 4 in these "random" rankings that actually align pretty well with the current B1G basketball landscape.
 
#771      
I’ve read this recruiting thread with much interest and an open mind. My take with a bit of experience: My daughter was recruited and played D1 basketball. Well, recruited 13 years ago. Not same as men or certainly this high level but our mindset is still fresh as we evaluated the offers. And importantly, asked coaches a lot of tough and a couple of times potentially embarrassing questions.

I believe that current recruits have to look critically at BU’s in game actions from last year as an enormous negative that, presently, has no positive offset. I do believe it was calculated but unfortunately he did seem to “lose it” at times. BU talked about “fighting for the culture” last year and as recent as last week. I take that as code for “I had to whip them to be competitive” Players that stayed, Trent, etc., likely felt the love enough at other times and were comfortable staying. None of us or importantly, recruits, have seen that offset either in love or wins.

IMO, until BU tames his inner beast on TV we will continue to lose out on kids and families who may not wish to put up with it. Bobby Knight is the extreme analogy, one of the greatest coaches but an !!! of a man. Very few would knowingly put up with it. But he was a perennial winner so enough top players did. BU and Illini are not there... Some can talk about soft kids if they wish but given the choice of options where you believe (and have no countervailing evidence) that one school has a nasty game time coach, which do you choose?

Is this the key issue? Don’t know. But it has to be a major factor.

We aren't losing recruits because Coach "lost it" on the sideline last year.

Liddell : Grew up fan of OSU, had great relationship with Pedon, OSU has been a consistenly good minus a year or 2 for 15 years

Conditt: His Dad went to Iowa St. We were behind from the beginning

Castleton: Wanted to play for one of the best Coaches/developers in the country in Beilein

Whitney: We are never going to win to many recruiting battles vs. Kentucky but i know he really liked Underwood and his style

The fact is we just haven't been that good lately. Thats hurts us more than anything. If we start to turn it around this year i can guarantee you the recruits won't worry about Coach "losing it" on the sideline.
 
#772      

Deleted member 643761

D
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Is Higgs a "4" or post player? If so, it seems like we've got as many as three project bigs right now. How many exactly do people want? The reason I'm asking is we've got a lot of people suggesting we take on another project (to me any big over 75 in rankings is a project). I'd like to get a big this class like everyone else. But I can also see passing on players that we truly don't believe won't pan out.
 
#773      
Is Higgs a "4" or post player? If so, it seems like we've got as many as three project bigs right now. How many exactly do people want? The reason I'm asking is we've got a lot of people suggesting we take on another project (to me any big over 75 in rankings is a project). I'd like to get a big this class like everyone else. But I can also see passing on players that we truly don't believe won't pan out.

Higgs has the tools to be a really good 4. The dude needs to heal up and be chained to fletch.
 
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