Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (September 2018)

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#376      
Rivals updated their 2019 rankings today. Tshiebwe up to 21 (5 star). Timme, 29. Liddell, 44. Shannon, 46.

UCLA & Florida at IMG today to see Shannon.

It was probably just our preoccupation with Whitney, but this seems like an awfully quiet ascension to stop 50 status. Very impressive.
 
#377      

Deleted member 643761

D
Guest
Listen, as I said, the improvement is commendable for us Illini fans, but the impact is highly exaggerated by posters. Black was a highly ranked recruit (like EJ), and we were able to make him the centerpiece of our team that finished 4-14 at the bottom end of the league (worse than previous years), earning him HM Big Ten, not getting drafted, and ending up very low in Europe. "If we did all that to Black, and we made HM, imagine what we can do for YOU EJ!" If people would have bought that improvement success story, Black would not have been buried very low in Europe not been able to even make 1st division to begin with. Reality talks, and reality is that people fairly knowledge in basketball (including pro-teams in Europe, agents, coaches, etc.) did not buy the Black success story.

The key sell to EJ is that we have some extremely talented guards (Frazier, Ayo) and we need some equally (or better) talented players in the frontcourt to compete not only in the B1G but nationally. And in the process, we will get you to the league. That would be the story for ALL 3 recruits. Black does not register as a success in highly recruits' mind, and is actually not a big positive.

Especially when Martin can say. "Even in my slow as molasses offense Jaylen Brown was successful."
 
#378      
I know many are big on recruiting "strategy" but when you get a chance to host a highly ranked recruit in one of his only 5 OVs, you take that chance every time no matter what. We are starving for talent, especially in the frontcourt, and that talent does not grow on trees. Lead or no lead, you try to make your strongest case on the OV.

As far as chances with the specific recruits, I had posted a while back what I had heard and believed with respect to all 3. That has not changed much, West Virginia leads for Tshiebwe, TOSU and Mizzou lead for EJ Liddell. But as far as Shannon, I have good reasons for sticking with my original prediction from back in July.

https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/For...g-thread-july-2018.24494/page-29#post-1403778
 
#379      
Why not Huff then? More intimate setting, no way we can't fill that up. Sure its been discussed here before. SFC isn't the only option. Of course, people kinda have to be interested in the event to go... And maybe Huff would be seen as some mid major esque event.
If I remember correctly, they really can't do much of a "team" or basketball event or big public viewing, since they're always based on the first full practice of the year, etc. Which leads you to think that they'll do something different that is for "all students", like the concert on the quad or another major event on that Saturday night.
 
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#382      
And if we don’t get any of the three, it will be the Mother of All Nut Punches.

That is a real possibility, I'm optimistic about Shannon (not overconfident though). Shannon has some Malcolm Hill to his game IMHO, adding an impact big (top 100) would make it a solid class. Getting all 3 players mentioned earlier on the visit would push the rebuild up much faster.
 
#383      
That is a real possibility, I'm optimistic about Shannon (not overconfident though). Shannon has some Malcolm Hill to his game IMHO, adding an impact big (top 100) would make it a solid class. Getting all 3 players mentioned earlier on the visit would push the rebuild up much faster.

Admittedly, I have not watched much on Shannon, but the descriptions here have made me think more Bertrand than Hill. Maybe that is off?
 
#384      
I love how dismissive some of you are about Leron Black's improvement and performance in one season under Underwood. Didn't Liddell specifically cite Black's usage in an interview a while back? Am I just making that up?

I have not see any direct quotes but I do recall (I believe it may have been Warner and/or Pipper) mention that EJ LIddell had talked about Leron Black's utilization. But we do not know the context either as some of these answers are prompted by writers' questions that lead the witness. At the same time, EJ Liddell had also talked about Mark Smith and writers' also kept mentioning it as a possible influence (Mark Smith was still with the Illini) but I do not think Mark Smith would be a factor either in this recruitment.
 
#385      

sacraig

The desert
I have not see any direct quotes but I do recall (I believe it may have been Warner and/or Pipper) mention that EJ LIddell had talked about Leron Black's utilization. But we do not know the context either as some of these answers are prompted by writers' questions that lead the witness. At the same time, EJ Liddell had also talked about Mark Smith and writers' also kept mentioning it as a possible influence (Mark Smith was still with the Illini) but I do not think Mark Smith would be a factor either in this recruitment.

Fair points. Still, I think some of the posts here have been overly dismissive. If you are pitching a guy who plays the same position at the same size as another guy who thrived under you, it would be absolutely silly not to play that up.
 
#386      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
Poo poo on it all you want, Liddell himself mentioned it, and it is not "hey look at what LB did" in reference to honorable mention and off to Europe, it's that he thrived and would have continued to thrive in this system....as will Liddell.
 
#387      

KrushCow31

Former Krush Cow
Chicago, IL
I know Congo and Senegal are not close to each other, but I wonder if one of the alluring aspects of Illinois to Tshiebwe is Samba Kane also being from Africa. I really like Tshiebwe he seems very humble.
 
#388      
Fair points. Still, I think some of the posts here have been overly dismissive. If you are pitching a guy who plays the same position at the same size as another guy who thrived under you, it would be absolutely silly not to play that up.

Just to be clear, as I mentioned in my posts already, I am not dismissive of Leron Black's improvement. On the contrary, as I said, it is commendable. Just do not think that it registers as a big success story in the minds of highly regarded recruits.
 
#389      

sacraig

The desert
I know Congo and Senegal are not close to each other, but I wonder if one of the alluring aspects of Illinois to Tshiebwe is Samba Kane also being from Africa. I really like Tshiebwe he seems very humble.

I feel like that is a little like saying that I would be drawn to play on a specific European team because they had an Argentinian on the roster.
 
#390      

sacraig

The desert
Just to be clear, as I mentioned in my posts already, I am not dismissive of Leron Black's improvement. On the contrary, as I said, it is commendable. Just do not think that it registers as a big success story in the minds of highly regarded recruits.

Well obviously you aren't sitting them down and saying "look, I can get you to 2nd tier Israel hoops like I did with Leron Black." Of course that isn't going to register. However, as part of a detailed presentation to a specific recruit playing the same position, you can sit him down, point directly to Leron Black, and say "look how much better he was after only one season in our program and look how much of a focal point he was in our offense. This is how I envision your roll, and with a few years in the program, you can be far better." Obviously it wouldn't work with a one-and-done type, but that isn't what we are talking about here.
 
#391      

KrushCow31

Former Krush Cow
Chicago, IL
I feel like that is a little like saying that I would be drawn to play on a specific European team because they had an Argentinian on the roster.

Why? They are the distance of Chicago to LA from each other. Like I said, not close, different cultures and climates, different languages, but similar in having come to America from Africa in the last 2 years and the cultural difference etc between the two. More in common with him than a European who came to America.
 
#393      
If I remember correctly, they really can't do much of a "team" or basketball event or big public viewing, since they're always based on the first full practice of the year, etc. Which leads you to think that they'll do something different that is for "all students", like the concert on the quad or another major event on that Saturday night.
I'm reasonably certain that Huff does not have a basketball floor. A year or two ago a volleyball floor was installed that cannot be used for basketball.
 
#394      
Well obviously you aren't sitting them down and saying "look, I can get you to 2nd tier Israel hoops like I did with Leron Black." Of course that isn't going to register. However, as part of a detailed presentation to a specific recruit playing the same position, you can sit him down, point directly to Leron Black, and say "look how much better he was after only one season in our program and look how much of a focal point he was in our offense. This is how I envision your roll, and with a few years in the program, you can be far better." Obviously it wouldn't work with a one-and-done type, but that isn't what we are talking about here.

Was just about to come on and say the exact same thing.
 
#395      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
I am guilty of this too, but I feel like we are all trying to figure out the pitch that will happen on the OV. What will be said on the OV to EJ that hasn't been told to him over the recruiting process already? Sure it will probably be summed up in some sort of presentation in some form or another. But we're all splitting hairs on how the staff should or shouldn't bring up Leron, when the importance of that will be small for this visit.
 
#396      

CAIllini

West Coast
So if these big 3 visits are the following weekend isn't that the Friday night game with Penn State? I wonder if they'll all make it in on Friday afternoon or won't be there till Sat? If the latter they'd miss most of the football game fanfare....do most fans stay over night Friday night and and would they then attend a basketball "practice" type recruiting event, or would that happen Friday? Interesting logistics....
 
#397      

sacraig

The desert
I am guilty of this too, but I feel like we are all trying to figure out the pitch that will happen on the OV. What will be said on the OV to EJ that hasn't been told to him over the recruiting process already? Sure it will probably be summed up in some sort of presentation in some form or another. But we're all splitting hairs on how the staff should or shouldn't bring up Leron, when the importance of that will be small for this visit.

I think, during the last recruiting cycle, someone snapped a photo of some of the things that were presented to recruits on OVs. It is probably a lot of what they've been told already, but with more pomp and circumstance and in the setting of the actual gym and actual locker room and actual weight room where it will all take place.
 
#398      
I am guilty of this too, but I feel like we are all trying to figure out the pitch that will happen on the OV. What will be said on the OV to EJ that hasn't been told to him over the recruiting process already? Sure it will probably be summed up in some sort of presentation in some form or another. But we're all splitting hairs on how the staff should or shouldn't bring up Leron, when the importance of that will be small for this visit.

I do not think it is about figuring what the staff's pitch will be (at least not my posts), that is impossible to know. The discussion, at least from my perspective, is on the impact of selling points, what is the big sell, factors with the highest impact. I personally do not think Leron Black is a big success or influence but others have different opinion.
 
#399      
I think, during the last recruiting cycle, someone snapped a photo of some of the things that were presented to recruits on OVs.

and IIRC, wasn't there a "typo" of some sort on that chart?
 
#400      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
I do not think it is about figuring what the staff's pitch will be (at least not my posts), that is impossible to know. The discussion, at least from my perspective, is on the impact of selling points, what is the big sell, factors with the highest impact. I personally do not think Leron Black is a big success or influence but others have different opinion.
From that perspective, part of the sell is how we would use EJ if he were to come. The only reason Leron is referenced with this, is as a blueprint to how he could be used in the offense, how we can get him enough touches ect. And it doesn't have to be Leron. If BU has a better example from SFA or OSU, show that footage. Leron just so happens to be the most recent and the only one wearing an Illinois uniform.
 
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