Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (September 2019)

[sacraig]

You make my point Sacraig, YOU THINK

 

[sacraig]

Just wondering out loud where all this extra money to pay athletes what they “deserve” would come from? I doubt there is a large pool of surplus donor money that is just waiting to be asked for. Increased ticket prices? I would assume that the ticket prices being charged is what the market will bear already. Tough to imagine video revenue could grow fast enough to cover it. I just don’t see how this all plays out except for the few at the top of the food chain.

That problem likely gets solved if the NBA kills the one-and-done rule and lets players who are good enough go straight into the league from high school. The players that could command big paychecks would just go pro. That would go a long way toward leveling the playing field between blue bloods and the rest of us riff raff as well. Right now, they get to hoard most or all of the 5-star one-and-done types, but there are a lot more of those 4-star types to go around and they are much closer to each other in ability, so letting the 5-stars go pro means Kentucky and Duke have a pool of recruits with a lot more in common to ours than they currently have.

 

[WizardBill]

That problem likely gets solved if the NBA kills the one-and-done rule and lets players who are good enough go straight into the league from high school. The players that could command big paychecks would just go pro. That would go a long way toward leveling the playing field between blue bloods and the rest of us riff raff as well. Right now, they get to hoard most or all of the 5-star one-and-done types, but there are a lot more of those 4-star types to go around and they are much closer to each other in ability, so letting the 5-stars go pro means Kentucky and Duke have a pool of recruits with a lot more in common to ours than they currently have.

I really think this point of view/idea/thought process is solid.

 

[OBKoolAid]

Just wondering out loud where all this extra money to pay athletes what they “deserve” would come from? I doubt there is a large pool of surplus donor money that is just waiting to be asked for. Increased ticket prices? I would assume that the ticket prices being charged is what the market will bear already. Tough to imagine video revenue could grow fast enough to cover it. I just don’t see how this all plays out except for the few at the top of the food chain.

What does that even mean? The big ten conference makes millions of dollars that is distributed to all members in that conference yearly.

 

[RockfordIllini]

I agree the one and dones have no place in college basketball, let them go pro. But I also don't think a few blue bloods hoarding the one and dones is that big of a deal either. The results of pursuing the one n done model are mixed. So far Kentucky has won a NC. Duke has won a NC. But they've had just as many early exits as Final Four runs. Talented teams, sure. But can certainly be taken down by the Virginias and 'Novas of the world.

 

[jmilt7]

DaRon Holmes receives offer from Illini

Holmes is a 6-foot-8, 195-pound power forward from Millennium High School in Goodyear, Arizona. He is rated as a four-star recruit who is the No. 40 player in the class of 2021 and the No. 10 power forward in the nation. He is also the No. 2 player in the state of Arizona.

 

[TheGMan]

I'm not concerned with leveling the playing field so much. There are always haves and have nots in sports. No matter how you slice it. I just feel that these kids are for all intents and purposes working full time jobs (often times with overtime) that produced millions, if not billions, of dollars. This is all while being full time students. Sure, they get a free education, but they can't use that to buy clothes, put gas in their cars, etc. They should, at the very least, be able to profit off of their likeness. Would it be perfect? Absolutely not. But it for sure is better than the status quo, in my opion.

 

[Calvin]

There is a THRIVING black market for talent in college fball & bball. It only applies near the upper end, though. A scholarship is plenty for the majority of kids, but those aren't the ones we're talking about. The NCAA is simply using their monopoly power to take that slice of the pie. Whether you believe in skirting a corrupt system is a matter of personal taste.

Personally, I'd love to see the system change so programs don't have to make bad choices, or watch coach after coach cheat and get away mostly unscathed (of course there are some exceptions).

 

[Deleted member 74158]

DaRon Holmes receives offer from Illini

Holmes is a 6-foot-8, 195-pound power forward from Millennium High School in Goodyear, Arizona. He is rated as a four-star recruit who is the No. 40 player in the class of 2021 and the No. 10 power forward in the nation. He is also the No. 2 player in the state of Arizona.

Actual recruiting news in the recruiting thread!

 

[disaacso]

Just wondering out loud where all this extra money to pay athletes what they “deserve” would come from? I doubt there is a large pool of surplus donor money that is just waiting to be asked for. Increased ticket prices? I would assume that the ticket prices being charged is what the market will bear already. Tough to imagine video revenue could grow fast enough to cover it. I just don’t see how this all plays out except for the few at the top of the food chain.

Also wouldn't title IX require all athletes to be paid, not just revenue sports. It would be crippling to almost every university

 

[Joel Goodson]

Just wondering out loud where all this extra money to pay athletes what they “deserve” would come from? I doubt there is a large pool of surplus donor money that is just waiting to be asked for. Increased ticket prices? I would assume that the ticket prices being charged is what the market will bear already. Tough to imagine video revenue could grow fast enough to cover it. I just don’t see how this all plays out except for the few at the top of the food chain.

It's not rocket surgery: existing revenue sources. They're huge and generated largely by the kids.

 

[The Dave]

That problem likely gets solved if the NBA kills the one-and-done rule and lets players who are good enough go straight into the league from high school. The players that could command big paychecks would just go pro. That would go a long way toward leveling the playing field between blue bloods and the rest of us riff raff as well. Right now, they get to hoard most or all of the 5-star one-and-done types, but there are a lot more of those 4-star types to go around and they are much closer to each other in ability, so letting the 5-stars go pro means Kentucky and Duke have a pool of recruits with a lot more in common to ours than they currently have.

Does this really work? I get the theory of what you're saying, but how many HS kids REALLY can go pro in a given year? 10? 15? So instead of Duke & KY getting all the Top 15 players, they're pulling in players 15-30...I get that there is theoretically less difference between #20 and # 50 than between #10 and #50, but are we REALLY draining the talent pool enough by eliminating 1-and-done to make a difference?

 

[Illwinsagain]

Fair or not fair, I am interested in everyone's opinions regarding the possibility of players being able to sell their likeness in the coming futures, as it pertains to IL and recruiting. Would IL be hurt or helped by this? How does the boosters of Champaign stack up against other college towns we are competing against? If they can sell their likeness, does that mean they can be in shoe commercials now? If they could, would that just drive more kids to the blue bloods? Do shoe companies start laundering money to local businesses so they can pay a player X amount of dollars to sign autographs at Papa Dells? How about on official visits, we show players that every off season, X amount of business owning alums up in Chicago bring in all the top players on the team and pay them to do some commercials for their business, usually resulting in an average of X amount of dollars every year. Not to mention all the "GREY AREA" activities that happen while you are up there.

Damn that escalated quickly...Would it help IL or hurt us overall?

Considering the amount of alumni, and the position of a lot of our alumni, I think we could do well. If, those alumni wanted to participate. There used to be a stat that there were more CEO's from U of I, in the Fortune 500, than any other university.

 

[Mamba1313]

Can we make a separate thread for this convo.... I want recruiting info.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Kansas could get the death penalty and in five years they'd be Kansas again. The NCAA is powerless to harm a program below their baseline. If a program is built on a base of tradition and loyal fan support it will always recover.

That's a big part of where the inaccurate perception that the NCAA won't punish big time schools comes from. Kentucky got the death penalty in 1952, and won a national title 5 years later. They had a two-year tournament ban, a ban from being shown on television, and scholarship reductions in 1989 and were in the Final Four four years later.

UNLV, SMU, houses of cards like that built on no foundation, yeah, they're done when they get caught. Auburn basketball will go back to being Auburn basketball when the heat catches up to Pearl again. But who cares? Auburn knows that they're getting while the getting is good, their eyes are wide open.

To tie it back to my previous comment, there's nothing the NCAA could do to harm Illinois that would come even close to the things Illinois has done to harm itself in the recent past. We have no reason to be afraid of them at all, nor any moral reason to respect or obey their crooked rules with respect to player compensation.

Now, there's a level to which we probably shouldn't stoop in the already unseemly world of keeping players academically eligible, and we should have a stringent lack of tolerance for player violence and criminality which would create an unsafe environment for the campus community. But those are separate issues that should not be conflated.

What has the vaunted USC football program does since the Reggie Bush suspension?

 

[PtownIllini8]

I hear we are in on a Ukranian but only if the NCAA agrees to investigate Cuonzo.

Nicely played Alaska!!!

 

[Illwinsagain]

As an All-American athlete in two different sports, I have strong feelings on any suggestion to do any "gray area" recruiting for any reason. Institutions of higher learning have absolutely, unequivocally, no charge to teach young athletes that cheating is OK. The idea is a complete non-starter. I am not a U of I alum, but though living in another state for decades, I am an Illinois taxpayer and have been a U of I basketball fanatic for 65 years. But I want to see it done without cheating. I am also quite ashamed that my alma mater has allowed their current coach to circumvent running a clean program. There is no good reason....categorically none....to cheat in running collegiate athletic programs.

What I personally suggest, is that any program caught cheating or in intentional rules violations be suspended for a period of three years while allowing athletes to maintain scholarships, if they choose, but not competing (another version of a fine for the school). More importantly, as in football and baseball, basketball players become ineligible for the NBA draft for a period of 3 years when signing a letter of intent. I don't care if Zion Williamson plays one farce season at Duke. The one and dones have no business engaging in the charade of collegiate athletics. Kids who do choose to spend three years getting and education will graduate at a higher rate and still compete on national TV for championships in front of sellout crowds. The one and dones, for me, add NOTHING to the collegiate game.

I certainly do not expect this to happen as it requires coaches and administrators who are getting paid over or under the table to agree to take huge pay cuts...even illegal ones that put the future of their careers and their families in jeopardy. Their moral integrity is simply too low....which has resulted in the current mess that is so obvious. Sadly, I have no answer as to whether or not there exist a person or persons of the required strengths of character and morality to lead and return the landscape of collegiate basketball and football to a level of integrity I and others expect from our institutions of higher education. Sad indeed...but fact.

Would you please take over the NCAA?

 

[Illwinsagain]

Also wouldn't title IX require all athletes to be paid, not just revenue sports. It would be crippling to almost every university

I guess that is why "selling likeness" is a better solution. Money goes to where people have interest and the universities don't have to add it to the budget.

 

[sacraig]

I agree the one and dones have no place in college basketball, let them go pro. But I also don't think a few blue bloods hoarding the one and dones is that big of a deal either. The results of pursuing the one n done model are mixed. So far Kentucky has won a NC. Duke has won a NC. But they've had just as many early exits as Final Four runs. Talented teams, sure. But can certainly be taken down by the Virginias and 'Novas of the world.

The one-and-done rule was enacted in 2005 and applied to the draft that year. Starting in 2006, North Carolina has won 3 championships, Kansas has won 1, Duke has won 2, and Kentucky has won 1. Those 4 schools account for 7 of the 14 championships since the one-and-done rule started. If you also look at opponents in those games, you have another several teams relying on one-and-dones. Those same 4 schools won 15 of the previous 45 NCAA tournaments to date, so while they were already overrepresented at 33% of all championships, but they are now sitting at 50%. That is a significant bump.

 

[sacraig]

Also wouldn't title IX require all athletes to be paid, not just revenue sports. It would be crippling to almost every university

It's an interesting question, for sure. Currently, not every sport is required to have the same quality of facilities, their coaches aren't paid the same, and so on, so I suspect this wouldn't be an issue in the end.

 

[sacraig]

Does this really work? I get the theory of what you're saying, but how many HS kids REALLY can go pro in a given year? 10? 15? So instead of Duke & KY getting all the Top 15 players, they're pulling in players 15-30...I get that there is theoretically less difference between #20 and # 50 than between #10 and #50, but are we REALLY draining the talent pool enough by eliminating 1-and-done to make a difference?

Part of my point, though, is that the top 15 to 20 players are typically far and away better than the next 100 players in a given class. There is a bigger difference in talent between player #10 and player #25 than there is between player #35 and player #50. Shoot, it's probably even a bigger difference that #35 and #95.

The point is that it would force them to recruit from a more even pool with the rest of us.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Part of my point, though, is that the top 15 to 20 players are typically far and away better than the next 100 players in a given class. There is a bigger difference in talent between player #10 and player #25 than there is between player #35 and player #50. Shoot, it's probably even a bigger difference that #35 and #95.

The point is that it would force them to recruit from a more even pool with the rest of us.

I agree Craig. I think that rule change levels the playing field.

 

[RockfordIllini]

The one-and-done rule was enacted in 2005 and applied to the draft that year. Starting in 2006, North Carolina has won 3 championships, Kansas has won 1, Duke has won 2, and Kentucky has won 1. Those 4 schools account for 7 of the 14 championships since the one-and-done rule started. If you also look at opponents in those games, you have another several teams relying on one-and-dones. Those same 4 schools won 15 of the previous 45 NCAA tournaments to date, so while they were already overrepresented at 33% of all championships, but they are now sitting at 50%. That is a significant bump.

I understand UNC and Kansas are blue bloods by any definition, and have had more than their fair share of one and done players, but if you look at their NC rosters, it was still a lot of upper classmen. Duke and UK are at another level with the one and dones where they form the core of the team every year.

I think the point still stands that a hoard of one and dones that is constantly turning over is not a sure-fire path to F4s and NCs.

 

[BMoreIllini]

DaRon Holmes receives offer from Illini

Holmes is a 6-foot-8, 195-pound power forward from Millennium High School in Goodyear, Arizona. He is rated as a four-star recruit who is the No. 40 player in the class of 2021 and the No. 10 power forward in the nation. He is also the No. 2 player in the state of Arizona.

Arizona schools going after Miller (our top 2020 in-state recruit), so we are going after one of the top recruits in their state for 2021 - I like it regardless of if he's a fit or not (he is), but that's the petty side of me talking.

 

[jmilt7]

Analyzing Andre Curbelo’s final five

I don't know who Lukas Harkins (the author) is or how credible so read at your own risk.

Also, doesn't really fit here but some people may be interested, Caleb Love has narrowed his choice to UNC or Missouri.