Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (December 2020)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#76      
I am dissapointed Illini did not land Mac Ettienne. It is natural to be looking for the new shiny toy. That is what makes this thread so entertaining. There has been some great discussion and good entertainment. With the staff, facilities and roster in place Illini hoops are fun again. I need to expand my use of this entertainment media to enjoy trolling and chest pounding speculation and the posters who buy into it.
 
#77      
True. In fact 247 ranks Groce's 2015 class as #15 in the nation and his 2013 class as #13. I think both of those are higher rankings than any BU class. And he'd also landed a pretty nice incoming class before he was fired (most of those guys jumped ship). He missed out on a lot of the very top targets, but who amongst Illini coaches since Self can say they haven't?

Problem is he didn't really develop any of that talent or win games, but he wasn't as terrible a recruiter as some make him out to be.
Problem with just evaluating recruiting classes on stars doesn’t consider position balance. Name one PG or Center that Groce recruited. The current team has a NBA prospect at both of those positions. Add Hill and Black to this team and you have a champion.
 
#79      
Problem with just evaluating recruiting classes on stars doesn’t consider position balance. Name one PG or Center that Groce recruited. The current team has a NBA prospect at both of those positions. Add Hill and Black to this team and you have a champion.

Nunn and Hill could have been Watts and Henry-lite. I'm not saying they could have won at Cameron, but Rocket Watts is a combo guard playing point guard and Aaron Henry is a 3 star recruit. MSU does not have a great PG or center this year and they still won at Duke. I don't expect us to have MSU level talent but we weren't THAT far off. Groce just couldn't coach.
 
#80      

AirNeezy

Orange Krush '13 -'14
Didn't Groce land Nunn (#56) and Hill (#70) in his first recruiting cycle and follow it up with Leron Black (#42) and then DJ Williams (#77), Jalen Coleman-Lands (#37) and Aaron Jordan (#118)? That's six 4* players in his first 3 years. It's not like Groce ONLY missed.
Sure, but another way to phrase this is that JFG picked up two top 50 players in his entire tenure here.

Underwood's snagged 4 top 50 players already (in much worse program circumstances his first couple years too I might add and at positions of immense need).

Anyways, I'm just saying that while it's understandable, we don't need to all act like the sky is falling with one bad signing period. Its been shown that we can recruit at a high level and build a team.
 
#81      
Sure, but another way to phrase this is that JFG picked up two top 50 players in his entire tenure here.

Underwood's snagged 4 top 50 players already (in much worse program circumstances his first couple years too I might add and at positions of immense need).

Anyways, I'm just saying that while it's understandable, we don't need to all act like the sky is falling with one bad signing period. Its been shown that we can recruit at a high level and build a team.

If you want to cut it off at 50, sure. He hasn't managed to land a single kid in the 50-100 range and those can also be kids who stay 4 years and develop into very nice complimentary pieces or all-conference performers.

I'm not sure why everyone insists on making excuses for Underwood. He absolutely failed this cycle. I do think Underwood is significantly better at identifying talent than Groce was. They just said on the Zags/WVU broadcast that Underwood at OSU was the first guy to offer Timme, for example.
 
#82      
If you want to cut it off at 50, sure. He hasn't managed to land a single kid in the 50-100 range and those can also be kids who stay 4 years and develop into very nice complimentary pieces or all-conference performers.

I'm not sure why everyone insists on making excuses for Underwood. He absolutely failed this cycle. I do think Underwood is significantly better at identifying talent than Groce was. They just said on the Zags/WVU broadcast that Underwood at OSU was the first guy to offer Timme, for example.
No excuses, but he's not failed, this recruiting year is not completed, let's get through the late period first. It's not how you start its how you finish.
 
#83      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
If you want to cut it off at 50, sure. He hasn't managed to land a single kid in the 50-100 range and those can also be kids who stay 4 years and develop into very nice complimentary pieces or all-conference performers.

I'm not sure why everyone insists on making excuses for Underwood. He absolutely failed this cycle. I do think Underwood is significantly better at identifying talent than Groce was. They just said on the Zags/WVU broadcast that Underwood at OSU was the first guy to offer Timme, for example.

If you have this much consternation with what is happening now...how did you live through the 10 years prior to BU?
 
#85      
This. So many things can happen between now and end of this recruiting cycle.
Who on Earth is still out there fo the Illini to land? I haven't seen any indication we've been making much traction with Cardet, so that leaves Melendez (3-star and ranked somewhere around 135 I believe) as the top recruit we have a realistic shot with. Most importantly, I don't think there are any recruits we're serious about at the 4 or 5, which are positions of need for us. I hope I'm wrong, but it feels like all the guys BU wanted are gone.

Thats not to say we should panic. But I think we can safely chalk the 2021 class as an L.
 
#87      
Didn't Groce land Nunn (#56) and Hill (#70) in his first recruiting cycle and follow it up with Leron Black (#42) and then DJ Williams (#77), Jalen Coleman-Lands (#37) and Aaron Jordan (#118)? That's six 4* players in his first 3 years. It's not like Groce ONLY missed.
Could not land PGs and only Nunn and Hill were multidimensional. DJ had potential but lacked many bball skills. Coleman Lands and Jordan wete good shooters but also lacked other skills. Player development under Groce was awful.
 
#88      
Who on Earth is still out there fo the Illini to land? I haven't seen any indication we've been making much traction with Cardet, so that leaves Melendez (3-star and ranked somewhere around 135 I believe) as the top recruit we have a realistic shot with. Most importantly, I don't think there are any recruits we're serious about at the 4 or 5, which are positions of need for us. I hope I'm wrong, but it feels like all the guys BU wanted are gone.

Thats not to say we should panic. But I think we can safely chalk the 2021 class as an L.
Hopefully with the vaccine rollout there will be lot more AAU. Lot of undiscovered gems out there with how little HS ball has been played. Staff has shown ability to find overseas players and new transfer rules should allow us to fill in the gaps. However, I'm an eternal optimist!
 
#89      
Who on Earth is still out there fo the Illini to land? I haven't seen any indication we've been making much traction with Cardet, so that leaves Melendez (3-star and ranked somewhere around 135 I believe) as the top recruit we have a realistic shot with. Most importantly, I don't think there are any recruits we're serious about at the 4 or 5, which are positions of need for us. I hope I'm wrong, but it feels like all the guys BU wanted are gone.

Thats not to say we should panic. But I think we can safely chalk the 2021 class as an L.
Had you heard of Feliz, Griffin, Giorgi, before we got them, trust in BU.
 
#90      

BMoreIllini

Baltimore, MD
It's insane to me that in early December we have users here saying that this entire 2021 recruiting cycle is a "Fail" when we have a 4 star guard signed (who was ranked as high as 91st on Rival). We've struck out lately, but do people really think that BU & Co. aren't in contact with dozens of kids. I feel like this staff has been pretty tight lipped in the past and we've had some pleasant surprises come out of no where. I have no reason not to trust they'll get it done.

With the new transfer rule (no sit out year) and guys like Curbelo (passer) and Miller (shooter to stretch the D) I'm sure an experienced big man would love the opportunity to come in and take advantage.
 
Last edited:
#91      

AirNeezy

Orange Krush '13 -'14
Lots of people overlooking just how much the new transfer rules are going to change the game too. There some potentially really good pieces out there.
 
#92      

DB11Headband

Chicago Burbs
Unless you're Kentucky/Duke/etc, you're going to miss out on 9 out of every 10 players you actively recruit. Sometimes those misses happen in waves, which is what we are seeing right now. BU will get guys to keep this program on the rise, especially after an entire year in the top 10.
 
#94      
Had you heard of Feliz, Griffin, Giorgi, before we got them, trust in BU.
Sure, they were part of the same class as Ayo right? Also part of that class were Tevian Jones, Samba Kane and Anthony Higgs. Sometimes 3-star or unranked players do work out. But at a much lower percentage than the highly ranked recruits, which is why I'm sure BU would have liked to pair them with one or two more high profile recruits. There's a reason the scouting industry exists, after all. So yeah, we should take some flyers and hope for the best. I dont think we should expect that pulling in a class ranked in the 60s or 70s nationally is going give us a leg up on B1G competition.
 
#95      
Problem with just evaluating recruiting classes on stars doesn’t consider position balance. Name one PG or Center that Groce recruited. The current team has a NBA prospect at both of those positions. Add Hill and Black to this team and you have a champion.
Even just Black. Imagine a legit 4 like Leron next to Kofi, adding either Trent or DMW off the bench.
 
#96      
Nunn and Hill could have been Watts and Henry-lite. I'm not saying they could have won at Cameron, but Rocket Watts is a combo guard playing point guard and Aaron Henry is a 3 star recruit. MSU does not have a great PG or center this year and they still won at Duke. I don't expect us to have MSU level talent but we weren't THAT far off. Groce just couldn't coach.
Groce coached pretty well when he led Ohio to wins over Michigan and South Florida in the tourney while taking top seed North Carolina to overtime in the Sweet 16.
 
#97      

AirNeezy

Orange Krush '13 -'14
Sure, they were part of the same class as Ayo right? Also part of that class were Tevian Jones, Samba Kane and Anthony Higgs. Sometimes 3-star or unranked players do work out. But at a much lower percentage than the highly ranked recruits, which is why I'm sure BU would have liked to pair them with one or two more high profile recruits. There's a reason the scouting industry exists, after all. So yeah, we should take some flyers and hope for the best. I dont think we should expect that pulling in a class ranked in the 60s or 70s nationally is going give us a leg up on B1G competition.

I 100% agree with you, but with this specific example I would be ecstatic if we batted .500 on solid contributors from 3-star or less players like we did with that class lol
 
#98      
I 100% agree with you, but with this specific example I would be ecstatic if we batted .500 on solid contributors from 3-star or less players like we did with that class lol
Agreed. 50% is probably about as good as you can hope for and I think that class exceeded everyone's expectations. Would be very excited to see that happen again. It's also interesting that as I recall the expectations were the highest for Tev and Kane out of that bunch (though I remember some excitement for Feliz as well). Goes to show that some of this is just impossible to predict.
 
#99      
I think the team that gave us the business last night is a great example of how, if you scout well, you can get impact transfers. Flager, Teague, and "Everyday Jon" are all players who started out elsewhere.
I don't think we will be chasing too many 3 stars in the remaining recruiting cycle. I think the staff will focus on the transfer market. (My wild speculation confirms it.)
While Groce had some good classes, many of those guys didn't stick around long enough to make an impact, others simply weren't as good as advertised. The real advantage BU has had over Groce in term of team building is filling out the back half of the roster, and finding really good players who have been over looked or under-rated. I think the top 5 guys off our bench would have given most of Groce's starting 5's a run for their money, if not a straight up beating.
 
#100      
I think the team that gave us the business last night is a great example of how, if you scout well, you can get impact transfers. Flager, Teague, and "Everyday Jon" are all players who started out elsewhere.
I don't think we will be chasing too many 3 stars in the remaining recruiting cycle. I think the staff will focus on the transfer market. (My wild speculation confirms it.)
While Groce had some good classes, many of those guys didn't stick around long enough to make an impact, others simply weren't as good as advertised. The real advantage BU has had over Groce in term of team building is filling out the back half of the roster, and finding really good players who have been over looked or under-rated. I think the top 5 guys off our bench would have given most of Groce's starting 5's a run for their money, if not a straight up beating.
Underwood said last year he has studied how Baylor put their team together. He brought Grandison and Hutch in as an example. You are dead on about recruiting 4 star talent and players with success at other programs. I would not mind seeing the PG from Ohio in O & B next year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.