Indiana 80, Illinois 74 POSTGAME

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A PG who isn't real big, isn't real quick, isn't a great defender and can't hit the broad side of the barn isn't going to be a good college PG even if he can distribute the ball. If Tate brought the toughness, defense and rebounding of a guy like Chester Frazier, then you could live with the shooting problem. But as is...
Tate has improved immensely from last year to this year. Perhaps we should see if he follows a normal career arc where a player's shooting percentage increases as he moves through his career.
 
If you consider 3-yr stretches (Self only stayed 3 years), the best 3 year period as far as overall record was Ralph Jones (1914-17) going 42-6 (87.5%), followed by Harry Combes (1950-53) going 62-13 (82.7%). Henson's best 3 year stretch was actually during 1986-89 when he went 77-23 (77%) barely edging the Self era (2000-03) when we went 78-24 (76.5%).

As far as taking over as a coach, Weber inherited the program with best 3-yr winning percentage in its 98 year-old history. Actually, no coach in the history of the Big Ten Conference ever took over a basketball program with better BT winning percentage since 1947, when Ohio State’s William H. Dye succeeded Harold Olsen who had gone 30-6 (83%) in conference games during the depleted World War II years.
I was considering from the day Frankie stepped on to the court until the day Dee Brown stepped off. I doubt we have had as good a 7 year stretch as that at any point in the history of Illinois basketball.
 
I was considering from the day Frankie stepped on to the court until the day Dee Brown stepped off. I doubt we have had as good a 7 year stretch as that at any point in the history of Illinois basketball.
Correct. My post was meant as a response to a previous poster (wrong place, I deleted) comparing Self and Henson 3-yr stretches, prior to Weber.

But I think this whole discussion is better served in the other thread.
 
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Tate has improved immensely from last year to this year. Perhaps we should see if he follows a normal career arc where a player's shooting percentage increases as he moves through his career.
At his current trajectory, Tate might shoot 0.200 from the arc as a senior. And actually, most improvement is from freshman to sophomore year. After that, many players plateau.
 
Yes, most of the guys he targeted were busts. But he did land Egwu and Abrams, right?

Who has Groce landed of consequence from Chicago? Nunn and DJ Williams?
The jury has already reached its verdict on all of Jerrance's recruits at illinois.
 
Yes, most of the guys he targeted were busts. But he did land Egwu and Abrams, right?

Who has Groce landed of consequence from Chicago? Nunn and DJ Williams?
Again, we're comparing apples to oranges here because of time on the job and all that.

But Groce's one player is better than any Jerrance brought in.
 
At his current trajectory, Tate might shoot 0.200 from the arc as a senior. And actually, most improvement is from freshman to sophomore year. After that, many players plateau.
I'm not even talking about from 3. Tate could very easily develop into a 45-50% FG% player.
 
Again, we're comparing apples to oranges here because of time on the job and all that.

But Groce's one player is better than any Jerrance brought in.
I like Nunn. But PG and Center are the toughest spots to fill. Egwu and Abrams were comparable recruits to Nunn in terms of the level of recruiting interest.

But you are really picking at nits here. There really isn't much of a sign that Groce has broken into Chicago to a greater extent than Weber+Howard. His biggest recruiting wins have been out of state in my mind - Black and JCL. If Groce has a recruiting advantage, it is his ability to recruit out of state.
 
I like Nunn. But PG and Center are the toughest spots to fill. Egwu and Abrams were comparable recruits to Nunn in terms of the level of recruiting interest.

But you are really picking at nits here. There really isn't much of a sign that Groce has broken into Chicago to a greater extent than Weber+Howard. His biggest recruiting wins have been out of state in my mind - Black and JCL. If Groce has a recruiting advantage, it is his ability to recruit out of state.
Groce uses that Lear out of Willard the way Weber used that gray Camry of his.
 
If Groce has a recruiting advantage, it is his ability to recruit out of state.
Groce is a much better recruiter than Weber and it is not even close IMO. Weber inherited the best program anyone inherited in the B1G since the war years, so the starting point is much different. Had Groce inherited the program from Self, he would have had a lot less recruiting hurdles to clear. Since 2005, we let our program slip too far, we really became and afterthought in college basketball. That is a huge hurdle to clear, no matter how good of a recruiter a coach can be.
 
Groce is a much better recruiter than Weber and it is not even close IMO. Weber inherited the best program anyone inherited in the B1G since the war years, so the starting point is much different. Had Groce inherited the program from Self, he would have had a lot less recruiting hurdles to clear. Since 2005, we let our program slip too far, we really became and afterthought in college basketball. That is a huge hurdle to clear, no matter how good of a recruiter a coach can be.
FWIW, that was also a hurdle for Weber to clear, starting with the 2008 class. Recruiting for the 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 classes was very much up hill because the program was clear not as good as in the early 2000s. And yet, the staff brought in a fair number of top-100 recruits in those classes (whether they should have been ranked in teh top 100 is another matter).
 
FWIW, that was also a hurdle for Weber to clear, starting with the 2008 class. Recruiting for the 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 classes was very much up hill because the program was clear not as good as in the early 2000s. And yet, the staff brought in a fair number of top-100 recruits in those classes (whether they should have been ranked in teh top 100 is another matter).
Would help if the Peoria pipeline would yield another future Illini. Or another NBA lottery pick would pop up in Robinson. Downstate hasn't yielded much recently.
 
Bloomington
Would help if the Peoria pipeline would yield another future Illini. Or another NBA lottery pick would pop up in Robinson. Downstate hasn't yielded ANYTHING recently.
With the exception of Finke and KBD, who has come out of downstate in the last 3 years?

And there doesn't look to be much on the radar until Tilmon in 2017 and Darius Beane and Tim Finke in 2018.
 
FWIW, that was also a hurdle for Weber to clear, starting with the 2008 class. Recruiting for the 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 classes was very much up hill because the program was clear not as good as in the early 2000s. And yet, the staff brought in a fair number of top-100 recruits in those classes (whether they should have been ranked in teh top 100 is another matter).
I respect you Groundhogday even though we disagree on a lot of things but this is simply isn't true not even 0.01%. Weber created his hurdles and yes we all loved the 2009, 2010, & 2011 but 4 top 100 players from 2004 - 2008 classes is just flat out terrible if we going based on rankings.

How many of those pan out to be stars at ILL, just 1 with Demtri McCamey. So Brock, Pruitt, and Carwell didn't produce like they should have. On to those 3 classes mentioned above only the 2009 class lived up to their expectations. Weber's best class based on production was only 2007.

I don't take anything away from Weber winning percentages at SIU and ILL but every year since he took over we became worst and worst with hardly any improvement in player development and players being brought in to run his system.

Weber's hurdles are on him and next year Groce will get judge on his production since the 2013 class will be juniors and should be capable of leading the team on their own.
 
FWIW, that was also a hurdle for Weber to clear, starting with the 2008 class. Recruiting for the 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 classes was very much up hill because the program was clear not as good as in the early 2000s. And yet, the staff brought in a fair number of top-100 recruits in those classes (whether they should have been ranked in teh top 100 is another matter).
Of course, but you can't really use that as your own excuse when you are the person responsible for bringing the program down. As noted, Weber inherited the program in its best shape than any other coach in Illini history and best shape than any coach in the B1G since WWII. Yeah, his job recruiting got more difficult with time but he was also responsible for the down years as his career progressed. BTW, the 2012 class was really a null class (Orris?), maybe the worst in Illini history?
 
Would help if the Peoria pipeline would yield another future Illini. Or another NBA lottery pick would pop up in Robinson. Downstate hasn't yielded much recently.
Yep. Since Henson we haven't really had much success recruiting in the city proper, and even less in the CPL. And it would seem that too many guys we do get are over rated, part of the city hype.
 
Of course, but you can't really use that as your own excuse when you are the person responsible for bringing the program down. As noted, Weber inherited the program in its best shape than any other coach in Illini history and best shape than any coach in the B1G since WWII. Yeah, his job recruiting got more difficult with time but he was also responsible for the down years as his career progressed. BTW, the 2012 class was really a null class (Orris?), maybe the worst in Illini history?
I'm not talking about excuses. I'm talking about the reality of Weber's recruiting over his last 4 years or so. He wasn't recruiting off the success of the preceding coaches at that point, so was pretty much recruiting to a program very much where Groce found it.
 
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