Mark Smith transferring from Illinois

[Fighter of the Nightman]

Good luck to you, Mark! I hope things work out for you (preferably not against us!), and I thank you for your time with the Illini family.

I am perfectly content with the coach we have in place and the program he plans to build.

 

[Kathy]

I think Underwood is close to a Bobby Knight type coach. I am hoping he don't lose it like Knight did. When you are that close to going over the line all the time mistakes can easily be made. You get more bees with honey and many of these bees watch these games and coaching techniques.

Give it a rest. BU is nowhere close to losing it, or like Bobby Knight.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Good grief, enough with this hand wringing stuff!

 

[ChiefIllini]

Man has this devolved. Fact of the matter is that if your program hinges on a single player at any given time, you're in deep doo doo already.

At worst in terms of our program, Mark Smith himself was upset with his usage. If thats true, he kept pretty darn quiet about it and still contributed when he had to. Thats classy and difficult for a kid to do. At best, his parents pushed him out wanting more for their son. Reality is, its probably a combination of those two, plus him not meshing well. Still think he could've been a great player here.

Regardless, we lose players, important players, every year. So do 99.9999% of programs. Dont even think its an argument that if JCL had stayed, this team would've been better. I'd say he would've been a bigger contributor than MS this year or next. Its gonna happen.

 

[hermie1985]

Negative motivation works best when winning. Unfortunately, we did not and the whole thing becomes exhausting for some.

I like the Huggins or Martin style and I think that is what Whitman thought we needed. It takes a special kid to withstand the marine corp type discipline. If we stick to it, I think it pays off but there will be a higher attrition rate until we get stacked with tough nosed kids.

Best wishes to Mark. There are lots of places for a good kid like him. Just a side note about a kid who grow up in cerebral baseball. The manager/player relationship is quite calm. Heart rate down type.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Would have liked to see Mark stay, but I can understand his desire to move on -- and it is best for both parties. I don't know if he just could never get comfortable with the system, but he often looked a bit lost a worst and uncomfortable at best. Maybe a less complicated system where he can use his instincts more will benefit him. I think he would have developed over time at Illinois, but given his problems with the system he might never have reached his potential. Best of luck Mark. Hope you find a place that suits you and your basketball skills better. And the Illini will move forward.

 

[Illini B-Ball Fan]

I have been interested in the discussion re red faced screaming coaching. I like BU very much and believe he is the coach we need. This aspect of his style is the only negative IMO.


I believe that this style of coaching will be on the wane as our society continues to be more intolerant of abuse. Red faced swearing at players can work to a point, for certain players. If its all you got, todays players may begin to tune out.
Showing up Kipper on TV was a bit Weberesque. Not a good look for the program.


I hope coach has other motivating techniques. Its sort of like the old adage:


If the only tool you have in the box is a hammer, all situations begin to look like nails.

Those who have gone through basic training and are/been in the military probably have a better sense why BU does what he does. He does have some similar characteristics to a drill/training instructor, which may not be everyone's cup of tea. Whether BU and Mark came to a mutual agreement on pulling the scholarship plug, we may never know for sure what happened behind closed doors. Yet, in a sense, this was Mark's basic training year and a recycle period in now in motion for him.

Recycling, or getting set back, is by far the most feared punishment in military basic training. Recycling simply means being moved to a different military basic training unit that is in an earlier part of basic training than you are currently in, which means you have to repeat training and spend additional time in basic.

I see BU's ways are not trying to discipline the players necessarily, but rather to get them to a place of being "self-disciplined". Some can hack that of style of coaching, some may not. Lots of changes yet for this team to come, for sure.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Where's this located at? St.Louis or Chicago? Either way let the babies cry and pack their bags. Quicker we get some mentally tough kids in here the better. I'm with Kathy, maybe some of these fans here need to transfer.

Chicago and they've been anti-Illini forever. Not coincidentally, they broadcast DePaul basketball games.

 

[PtownIllini8]

I have been interested in the discussion re red faced screaming coaching. I like BU very much and believe he is the coach we need. This aspect of his style is the only negative IMO.


I believe that this style of coaching will be on the wane as our society continues to be more intolerant of abuse. Red faced swearing at players can work to a point, for certain players. If its all you got, todays players may begin to tune out.
Showing up Kipper on TV was a bit Weberesque. Not a good look for the program.


I hope coach has other motivating techniques. Its sort of like the old adage:


If the only tool you have in the box is a hammer, all situations begin to look like nails.

Smith said he left because he didn't fit the system we run. Where is this stuff coming from about the coach's style? Sounds like a load of bull to me.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Smith said he left because he didn't fit the system we run. Where is this stuff coming from about the coach's style? Sounds like a load of bull to me.

Possibly, but BU runs a very high pressure/deny guard D. MA, TF, TJL all good fits for that D, not MS who is probably better suited to packline or other.

 

[LisaMarie]

Give it a rest. BU is nowhere close to losing it, or like Bobby Knight.

And you know this how, exactly?

People have a lot of opinions about Underwood’s coaching style (interspersed with a healthy dose of “kids these days”) without actually experiencing it twenty hours a week. It’s not just about in-game theatrics; I agree that players who can’t handle someone getting in their face don’t make it to high major ball, and almost all coaches do this. Some coaches use it as a tool in their toolbox, and some coaches are just tools. We’ll see soon enough if Underwood’s style and system will work here.

It’s amazing that people wanted Brad Stevens to come here. How could he possibly be effective with his demeanor?

 

[PlayAZ]

Smith said he left because he didn't fit the system we run. Where is this stuff coming from about the coach's style? Sounds like a load of bull to me.

From the News Gazette.

"I just don't fit the system," Smith told the Alton Telegraph on Monday. "I wish all the players the best of luck, but I just don't fit the system. Coach Underwood, he's going to get people that fit his system.

We can rehash it all we want, spin it, slap it rub it down...Oh No...BU is the start of BULL *hit and that is what that take is. His style is not the problem, the game style was. They both recognized it and are moving forward.
http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...wood-smith-sometimes-it-just-doesnt-work.html

 

[Orangetool]

And you know this how, exactly?

People have a lot of opinions about Underwood’s coaching style (interspersed with a healthy dose of “kids these days”) without actually experiencing it twenty hours a week. It’s not just about in-game theatrics; I agree that players who can’t handle someone getting in their face don’t make it to high major ball, and almost all coaches do this. Some coaches use it as a tool in their toolbox, and some coaches are just tools. We’ll see soon enough if Underwood’s style and system will work here.

It’s amazing that people wanted Brad Stevens to come here. How could he possibly be effective with his demeanor?

Ha, nicely crafted!

 

[Deleted member 29907]

And you know this how, exactly?

People have a lot of opinions about Underwood’s coaching style (interspersed with a healthy dose of “kids these days”) without actually experiencing it twenty hours a week. It’s not just about in-game theatrics; I agree that players who can’t handle someone getting in their face don’t make it to high major ball, and almost all coaches do this. Some coaches use it as a tool in their toolbox, and some coaches are just tools. We’ll see soon enough if Underwood’s style and system will work here.

It’s amazing that people wanted Brad Stevens to come here. How could he possibly be effective with his demeanor?

The flip side of that argument is that we don't know what type of relationship he has with each individual. Coaches who just yell and scream without developing good relationships with their players and/or putting in the time to develop the team will be perceived by the players as bullies. Coaches who build a relationship and then yell and scream at times are more likely to be taken as "yeah, he's right - I am not getting it done". There are times I've seen BU sit calmly on the sidelines when the team was not performing well - much to my surprise because I was certainly yelling at the tv. This is a contact sport - best supported by those who can give and take contact.

 

[ILL in IA]

Chicago and they've been anti-Illini forever. Not coincidentally, they broadcast DePaul basketball games.

You left out the fact that they broadcast Illinois games. The "670 the score hates Illinois" narrative is so tired and lazy. Find a new angle.

 

[basementcheetos]

And you know this how, exactly?

People have a lot of opinions about Underwood’s coaching style (interspersed with a healthy dose of “kids these days”) without actually experiencing it twenty hours a week. It’s not just about in-game theatrics; I agree that players who can’t handle someone getting in their face don’t make it to high major ball, and almost all coaches do this. Some coaches use it as a tool in their toolbox, and some coaches are just tools. We’ll see soon enough if Underwood’s style and system will work here.

It’s amazing that people wanted Brad Stevens to come here. How could he possibly be effective with his demeanor?

I understand the point, and its a good one. However, I find the criticism of BU's sideline demeanor very similar to the old Bears fan criticism of Lovie Smith being too stoic on the sideline. The old, "fire and passion" argument. "Lovie is a bad coach because he is too laid back, he needs more fire, he needs to yell more.." To me it was overly simplistic and was an easy reason to point to after a bad season. Just like the "Underwood is too intense, and he is losing the kids, he needs to lighten up, be more supportive etc..." Too simplistic, very easy, but probably not really the answer. There is so much more to a coach than what we see on the sideline during games. IMO, fans really can't make effective judgments like this unless they have a level of access greater than the average supporter.

 

[NScale]

All this berating a coach based on what you see on television for a two hour stretch -- strolling the sidelines during a game is a small part of what it takes to run a program. That is a 24/7 big deal. How many of you have actually gone to a practice? Or attended a team meeting? Does Brad Underwood just have a loud voice when needed or does he drop f bombs like Bobby Knight did? And yes, there is plenty of video on what Bobby did during practices.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Mark Smith moved on
BU moved on
This board.....gonna be talking about it for the next 5 months.

 

[illini62707]

MS, is not gonna play point guard and MO would be a possible destination with or without Ramey.

 

[TownieMatt]

I've read none of this thread, so apologies if this doesn't flow with recent posts, but I have to vent about the reaction of some our "fans" to Mark leaving.

<rant>

First of all, Mark Smith needs to make the decision that's best for him. He doesn't owe the university or its fans anything. If Mark feels it isn't going to work for him here and he's willing to sit out a year for a fresh start, so be it. For our "fans" to then call a 19 year old kid a "quitter" and "soft" and belittle him (especially on Twitter) is disgraceful. It's also totally counterproductive! Do you think our current recruits look at that and think "Wow, that's a fanbase I want to represent!"

If you feel like Mark should have put his head down and stuck it out, I get it. But look at it from his point of view. He was sold by our coaching staff on coming in and being the starting PG and leader of this team. However, it was clear from the first game of the season that he was never going to play PG in this system (even before Trent emerged). Now did Mark adjust well to that? No—and that's on him—but there's also little doubt in my mind that our staff told him what he wanted to hear to get him, with little intention of actually following through.

How would you feel if you were recruited for a new job and your employer sweet-talked you by telling you that you'll have a senior role with X, Y, and Z benefits. Then you start working and find out your being asked to fill a totally different role. I know I'd be pissed and start looking for a new job! Why do we ask athletes—especially amateur student-athletes—to do anything different?

Wake up folks, this is today's college basketball. Coaches ask players to leave, players tell coaches they're leaving. There's more player movement than ever before, and IMO it's not necessarily a bad thing (do we not live in a free market economy?). And guess what, we'll likely benefit from a player transferring to us from another program. Will we criticize him for his lack of loyalty to his previous program? I bet not.

</rant>

 

[Peoria Illini]

Possibly, but BU runs a very high pressure/deny guard D. MA, TF, TJL all good fits for that D, not MS who is probably better suited to packline or other.

Agree. He struggled with pressure man to man defense, especially off the ball, when he struggled with keeping an eye on the ball and an eye on his man. Either lost his man to back cuts or lost the ball and missed help situations.

He did look like he was improving near the end of the season, and I think that showed with his increased offensive production.

I would think maybe it came apparent to him, he wasn't going to get the ball in his hands the majority of the time with Trent, Ayo and Tejon.

Who knows.

Good luck to Mark wherever he ends up. Hope he finds the fit he is looking for.

 

[Peoria Illini]

I've read none of this thread, so apologies if this doesn't flow with recent posts, but I have to vent about the reaction of some our "fans" to Mark leaving.

<rant>

First of all, Mark Smith needs to make the decision that's best for him. He doesn't owe the university or its fans anything. If Mark feels it isn't going to work for him here and he's willing to sit out a year for a fresh start, so be it. For our "fans" to then call a 19 year old kid a "quitter" and "soft" and belittle him (especially on Twitter) is disgraceful. It's also totally counterproductive! Do you think our current recruits look at that and think "Wow, that's a fanbase I want to represent!"

If you feel like Mark should have put his head down and stuck it out, I get it. But look at it from his point of view. He was sold by our coaching staff on coming in and being the starting PG and leader of this team. However, it was clear from the first game of the season that he was never going to play PG in this system (even before Trent emerged). Now did Mark adjust well to that? No—and that's on him—but there's also little doubt in my mind that our staff told him what he wanted to hear to get him, with little intention of actually following through.

How would you feel if you were recruited for a new job and your employer sweet-talked you by telling you that you'll have a senior role with X, Y, and Z benefits. Then you start working and find out your being asked to fill a totally different role. I know I'd be pissed and start looking for a new job! Why do we ask athletes—especially amateur student-athletes—to do anything different?

Wake up folks, this is today's college basketball. Coaches ask players to leave, players tell coaches they're leaving. There's more player movement than ever before, and IMO it's not necessarily a bad thing (do we not live in a free market economy?). And guess what, we'll likely benefit from a player transferring to us from another program. Will we criticize him for his lack of loyalty to his previous program? I bet not.

</rant>

Agree!

 

[illini62707]

Oh my goodness, are the "soccer moms" really running college bb too! You can't raise your voice with the players, today? The coach can't get on a kid on national TV! Please!Not to mention Underwood dole's out plenty of praise to these guys, also

 

[TheFameProtector]

Great rant Townie Matt! Esp. the free market part - kind of reminds me of discussions about high divorce rates in today's society. Is this a bad thing, or does it mean fewer people are stuck in relationships that really don't work?

On a different note, while one can argue that BU's screaming, get-in-your-face type of coaching can lead to positive outcomes, it has gone too far when there is a dedicated video of the coach screaming at players on ESPN's website. I don't care about subjective debates about the merits of this type of leadership. It has simply gone too far when a video like that exists on a website like ESPN - they don't do those videos for anything but exceptional parts of games (good and bad).

 

[TheFameProtector]

Oh my goodness, are the "soccer moms" really running college bb too! You can't raise your voice with the players, today? The coach can't get on a kid on national TV! Please!Not to mention Underwood dole's out plenty of praise to these guys, also

You can raise your voice, but there are degrees, as with anything. Pretty clear he is at the very end of the distribution with how he acts/reacts IN GAME. I remember reading about Orlando being the guy players went to when Cal was going off on them in practice. Great. Go off on them in practice when the cameras aren't around. Don't do it on TV, like THAT.

Also, he does not possess the dole.