Miami 81, Illinois 79 POSTGAME

We do not have a point guard who can penetrate and pass for open 3's. I hope Curbelo is able to do that next year
 
Decatur, IL
Wow! Reading the last page and a half how many of you coach college level Bball? It seems like you all have the qualifications! SMH....
 
Wow! Reading the last page and a half how many of you coach college level Bball? It seems like you all have the qualifications! SMH....
No but I'm not chugging orange kool aid by the gallon either. Are seeing lottery picks in our backcourt this year the way we turn the ball over or that we need to pass out of a double team on drives or anytime? I think you dont need to be a coach to state the obvious. I think they can get there but things need to change and you dont need to be a coach to see that. Do you not see this too?
 
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Illinois is 116th in assist percent (% of fg's that are assisted) and even that is heavily skewed by the Hampton (assisted 29 of 45 fg) and Lindenwood (25 of 39) games. I do agree with much of what you're saying, I just couldn't believe the assist stats that you listed, so I had to do a little digging. I don't feel like the spread system does a great job of putting players in position to get assists, and I think players are missing opportunities to create those chances. For instance fairly late in the 2nd half against Miami there was a play when Griffin caught the ball on the left wing and started to drive middle, the entire defense sagged into the paint and Frazier was at the top of the key yelling and clapping for the ball and Griffin did a hook pass to Feliz in the corner instead. The possession ended poorly all because we didn't make an obvious, wide open pass to our hottest shooter.
Agree that Griffin made the wrong play. Don't agree that it should've gone to Frazier. Griffin was open for a 3 and should've pulled the trigger.
 
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Illinois is 116th in assist percent (% of fg's that are assisted) and even that is heavily skewed by the Hampton (assisted 29 of 45 fg) and Lindenwood (25 of 39) games. I do agree with much of what you're saying, I just couldn't believe the assist stats that you listed, so I had to do a little digging. I don't feel like the spread system does a great job of putting players in position to get assists, and I think players are missing opportunities to create those chances. For instance fairly late in the 2nd half against Miami there was a play when Griffin caught the ball on the left wing and started to drive middle, the entire defense sagged into the paint and Frazier was at the top of the key yelling and clapping for the ball and Griffin did a hook pass to Feliz in the corner instead. The possession ended poorly all because we didn't make an obvious, wide open pass to our hottest shooter.
espn was where I pulled info from.
 
Flight#33
The issue is not what happened at the end of the game, its getting your rear end kicked the entire 1st half of the game. After last year, they better not be taking anyone lightly. They have A LOT to prove, especially in the beginning of the game, not too impressed with comebacks, when the other team relaxes.
 
Charleston
The issue is not what happened at the end of the game, its getting your rear end kicked the entire 1st half of the game. After last year, they better not be taking anyone lightly. They have A LOT to prove, especially in the beginning of the game, not too impressed with comebacks, when the other team relaxes.
So, it’s your contention that Miami relaxed?
 
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Hopefully the team caught the IU game last night, IU had really good ball movement.
I'd suggest showing them about any of our 04-05 teams games and how they passed the ball so unselfishly. A team that had several players get drafted. If I were BU I may have them.learn from the best passing team I've ever seen. That one reason that team was so amazing and fun to watch. The 89 team had more talent but man that 04-05 team played so well together
 
Agree that Griffin made the wrong play. Don't agree that it should've gone to Frazier. Griffin was open for a 3 and should've pulled the trigger.
That would've been a fine decision too, but I would just like to hit the hot hand in that situation
 
espn was where I pulled info from.
I went to basketball reference, and I don't doubt that the assists per game looks decent, but we racked a bunch up against bad teams and play at decent pace. I was curious about the number because it didn't pass the eye test
 
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Don't know for sure but, I truly believe that BU does not like the mid range jumper. I don't care about the efficiency stats. I believe at that level, a lot of guys will make that shot a lot more than driving to the rim and trying to get a shot off over interior defenders. So, I agree with your assessment but, I think that the shot is discouraged by BU who prefers a floater.
I think most coaches nowadays aren’t enamored with the midrange jumper (even myself at the high school level included), but I guarantee you the elbow jumper in spread is one of the “good shots” the offense generates. Unless he changed his philosophy since his OSU/SFA days when I saw him in a clinic, when he has guys who can hit that they shoot it. There are read options for the second cutter based on how the high post man is defending the cuts. If he’s sagging into the paint, the second cutter should run a “brush screen” to kind of pin the defender so the elbow pass can be thrown and a jumper there an option. The other option for the second cutter is a hard flare screen (usually on a special call, he calls it flare so nobody knows what’s coming for sure lol) so the high post guy can pop back a bit to create more space and shoot the shot or drive on the closeout. A good shooter can pop the flare all the way to the 3.


It's effective if you are a) good at it, and b) can create an open shot to take it. I mean, I guess that's literally every other shot, but midrange jumpers get a bad rap because it's worth the same from 1 foot as it is from 18ft

This reply isn’t to you specifically just to expand on the midrange idea, and why people have become so against it. Nba stats incoming but they’re the best players in the world, so it kinda really makes the point.

Within the last couple years, at the end of the nba season, I saw that the nba average on midrange jumpers was 44%. Because these are the best players in the world, we can assume that they’re better than college players but ill round up to 45% for clean numbers.

average midrange shooter @ 45%= 45/100 = 90 points for 100 shots

great midrange shooter (think Michael Jordan) shoots about 50%. 50/100= 100 points per 100 shots.

average 3 point shooter who you’re gonna be okay with shooting a 3: 30-33%. Let’s go low, 30/100= 90 pts per 100 shots. A low average 3 point shooter is even with an average midrange shooter.

a good 3 point shooter is giving you 40+%. 40/100=120(!!!) points per 100 shots.

so you can step back 2 feet, sacrifice 4-5 percent shooting, and still increase your points per 100 shots by 1/3. You really kind of have no choice.
 
Flight#33
Wouldn't it make sense to take the open midrange shot if that's what the defense is giving you? And when they have to guard that it will open up other more " attractive " shots, 3s and layups. The players are all very capable of hitting a midrange open shot at this level.
 
I think most coaches nowadays aren’t enamored with the midrange jumper (even myself at the high school level included), but I guarantee you the elbow jumper in spread is one of the “good shots” the offense generates. Unless he changed his philosophy since his OSU/SFA days when I saw him in a clinic, when he has guys who can hit that they shoot it. There are read options for the second cutter based on how the high post man is defending the cuts. If he’s sagging into the paint, the second cutter should run a “brush screen” to kind of pin the defender so the elbow pass can be thrown and a jumper there an option. The other option for the second cutter is a hard flare screen (usually on a special call, he calls it flare so nobody knows what’s coming for sure lol) so the high post guy can pop back a bit to create more space and shoot the shot or drive on the closeout. A good shooter can pop the flare all the way to the 3.





This reply isn’t to you specifically just to expand on the midrange idea, and why people have become so against it. Nba stats incoming but they’re the best players in the world, so it kinda really makes the point.

Within the last couple years, at the end of the nba season, I saw that the nba average on midrange jumpers was 44%. Because these are the best players in the world, we can assume that they’re better than college players but ill round up to 45% for clean numbers.

average midrange shooter @ 45%= 45/100 = 90 points for 100 shots

great midrange shooter (think Michael Jordan) shoots about 50%. 50/100= 100 points per 100 shots.

average 3 point shooter who you’re gonna be okay with shooting a 3: 30-33%. Let’s go low, 30/100= 90 pts per 100 shots. A low average 3 point shooter is even with an average midrange shooter.

a good 3 point shooter is giving you 40+%. 40/100=120(!!!) points per 100 shots.

so you can step back 2 feet, sacrifice 4-5 percent shooting, and still increase your points per 100 shots by 1/3. You really kind of have no choice.
That shot gets challenged big time in the NBA. It is not that they can't hit it but, one has to normally shoot it to the ceiling to get it off. So, I can see the percentage being down quite a bit. My point is that any 2 or 3 at the college level should be able to hit that shot 80% when not being challenged. If Ayo has the go ahead to pull up for that shot, especially at the end of a game, it might be a good idea to do that. I am just not sure where the emphasis is placed in practice. With no time outs available, guys tend to go to where the emphasis has been placed.
 
Ayo...overrated, Too soft . Trent playing worse than before Ayo arrived offensively, Offense running weave like a hs drill allowing college players a chance to relax and get set up to defend. Seems like team doesn't respond to what Underwood wants. Underwood was definately perplexed in first 10 minutes of first half. Big hole at 4 with Giorgi not looking comfortable out there. Need a win against a good team sometime to offset this bad loss. Do not expect it with what I have seen so far. Not enough heart and leadership from Ayo and noone putting him in his place to let Andres, Alan or Trent to take charge of offense.
Was watching the Purdue-Virginia game last night. Purdue was doing the weave at times too but they seemed to be much more effective at it. To my eyes the biggest difference seemed to be the speed. Maybe the actual angles were a little greater as well. Perhaps the concept isn't impossible, it's the way it's coached or the way it's executed?
 
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Reminds me of Bruce having Meyers Leonard 35 feet out doubling ball handler...coaches must believe that is effective...but you can't do it if you can't move your feet...Meyers was bad at it..I don't think Kofi or Giorgi are effective at it either
Doubling is very different than being in a 1-on-1 defensive island...
 
We better guard Cowan a lot better than we did Lykes. I think this team is less than the sum of its parts. Watched press conference... Kipper certainly got called out. Don't remember him getting back in after his short stint in the first. Effort an issue but inability to run offense to get anyone open a bigger problem.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! Very true, IMO.
 
That shot gets challenged big time in the NBA. It is not that they can't hit it but, one has to normally shoot it to the ceiling to get it off. So, I can see the percentage being down quite a bit. My point is that any 2 or 3 at the college level should be able to hit that shot 80% when not being challenged. If Ayo has the go ahead to pull up for that shot, especially at the end of a game, it might be a good idea to do that. I am just not sure where the emphasis is placed in practice. With no time outs available, guys tend to go to where the emphasis has been placed.
I both agree and disagree with your points. After all, we see a lot more midrange shots come playoff time in the NBA since they're more effective (or the only reasonable option late-clock) when defenses tighten up -- Kawhi took down GS living off that shot. I think there's a time and a place for emphasizing its use, and late game would have been a good situation where getting a midrange off with a clean look was better than driving into a bunch of bodies (hindsight is 20/20 on that, but still). Overall, though, it definitely makes sense to sacrifice long 2s for 3s. I really think we need to work on setting up some more drive and kick opportunities for Ayo, where the receiving guy is Frazier -- draw a help defender and kick to the knock down 3 point shooter. That and dumping it to Kofi are our most efficient offensive weapons right now. And if Ayo can do that enough to bump up those assists, it will only help his draft stock.
 
Was watching the Purdue-Virginia game last night. Purdue was doing the weave at times too but they seemed to be much more effective at it. To my eyes the biggest difference seemed to be the speed. Maybe the actual angles were a little greater as well. Perhaps the concept isn't impossible, it's the way it's coached or the way it's executed?
Izzo used to run it a while back, but I can't remember if he still does