Michael Finke, Te'Jon Lucas transferring from Illinois

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Feliz is the #1 JUCO PG in the country (I'm well aware JUCO talent is nowhere near the level it was before prep schools). He seems to be an offensive upgrade over Lucas (shoots 42% from 3), but I'd imagine would be a downgrade defensively. Staff must think he's an upgrade overall or else they wouldn't be nudging Lucas out the door.
Is there anything telling us that this is the case? I mean, Lucas has been talked about all season as someone who may look to move on. We had Frazier, Smith, DMW, and Ayo coming in, so Lucas might start to see where his minutes could be taken at the 1 and 2.
He was suspended earlier this season.
I'm guessing he still sees himself as a D-1 starting guard, considering he was starting as a freshman.
 
Feliz is the #1 JUCO PG in the country (I'm well aware JUCO talent is nowhere near the level it was before prep schools). He seems to be an offensive upgrade over Lucas (shoots 42% from 3), but I'd imagine would be a downgrade defensively. Staff must think he's an upgrade overall or else they wouldn't be nudging Lucas out the door.
+ Feliz averages 6.1 APG and we were last in the B!G in assists. Plus Ayo and Trent are not true assist men. We need Feliz badly. B1G ready body and defense is fine. FT % is huge upgrade from TJL's bricks. I'll take him now!!
 
Feliz is the #1 JUCO PG in the country (I'm well aware JUCO talent is nowhere near the level it was before prep schools). He seems to be an offensive upgrade over Lucas (shoots 42% from 3), but I'd imagine would be a downgrade defensively. Staff must think he's an upgrade overall or else they wouldn't be nudging Lucas out the door.
There are also different levels of JUCO talent.

Some may not be immediate D1 players and need time to improve.
Others are D1 level talents who make their way through juco because they don't want to sit out a year or other circumstances. Andres Feliz is only showing an offer from USF pre-juco, but I am hoping he was the latter and was under the radar. Jordan Brangers is an example (Colorado State, Texas Tech, Western Kentucky offers) that could have started out as a D1 player.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2016/andres-feliz-2785
 
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Scouting report isn't too kind to his outside shot despite his percentage. JUCO guards rarely make contributions at a high level. Doubt he will either but I guess he can be a capable backup. I don't think he will be an upgrade over Lucas but probably not much of a downgrade either.

Staff welcomed Lucas back but were honest about what his role would be. Only one really getting creaned is Matic.
Not saying he's going to be better than Lucas, but if the staff doesn't view him as an upgrade over Lucas, I feel like they would've made a harder push to keep him.
 
Just recently remodeled the house....took about 3 months......it was a pain in the ars and many unexpected complications during the process.....but it is now beginning to take shape and the results were worth the inconvenience .....sometimes it takes sacrifice to get to where you want to be.....just saying
 
A friend who is a college basketball gambling maven had what I thought was a very wise thought in a group chat I'm in that I thought I'd share:

"When there's blood in the water like this with everyone leaving you usually have to turn it around pretty quick or people leaving at the first sign of adversity becomes the status quo and ruins your culture, and culture is a big part of the appeal with Underwood"

And just as sort of an aside to that, we all hope Lovie Smith and Brad Underwood have long term success here and we're nowhere near hot seat territory with either of them, but just thinking ahead to the eventuality that we'd have to replace these guys: stripping your inherited roster to the bone is no way to run things. Let's not do this again.
 
Kipper would have to sit a year with only 1 year left, if he transferred. He will stay and play 2 years. At the end of the day, he will be glad he stayed. The needle for this team is pointing up.
In addition, if he can graduate next year he could play here next year & would still be eligible the following year somewhere else without losing a season.
 
Just my opinion... Tejon saw they had recruited over him - got mad - got suspended - and really responded - competed - showed that he is a competitor, winner, player. He has a lot of what Underwood values, he's just a little short for this offense. But great toughness and D, something we really lack.

Finke was given some opportunities, and for the most part, he didn't respond (with the exception of his last game), that's what we would have liked to have seen all year from him.

anyway, what do i know? nothing. just looked that way to me. good luck to both guys!
 
Can someone talk me off the (metaphorical) ledge right now
It might not look good now, but there's no reason to give up on things as is. Bruce Weber was facing a similar situation when they lost six players. Marcus Foster and two others were dismissed, plus three transfers. Talk about looking like a program in a crater-sized hole. Yet Bruce tried to assemble players that fit his culture and were "winners," and here they made it to the Elite 8.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article205405839.html


Here's hoping BU can get the guys he wants and have success, despite facing a roster turnover of a similar scale.

Also, here is an article on Feliz. Seems like a winner and, may mitigate the loss of TJL. Now we need someone to take Finke's spot.

http://digitaledition.orlandosentin...spx?guid=24da0a65-ef7c-4b17-8a6f-272e16fd4a6c
 
Can someone talk me off the (metaphorical) ledge right now
No. Be upset. Demand better than this. Just don't start droning on about firing the coach for three straight years because that's oversimplifying and a waste of everyone's time.

But a healthy Illinois team should never finish with a triple-digit KenPom. It's not good enough and should be seen as the failure that it is. Failing to retain key players with remaining eligibility is also a failure.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Can someone talk me off the (metaphorical) ledge right now
We haven't made the tournament in any of the last 5 years, and said players were part of that (though certainly not all of that).

We only made the NIT thrice in that time and were roundly embarrassed.

This is the only season as HC in which Underwood has failed to make the tournament, so we have to imagine he knows the sort of guys he needs on his roster to succeed.

Given the situation, it seems like the transfers have been essentially mutual.

In my mind, that leaves me optimistic. We are essentially shedding the last vestiges of an old, uncompetitive system in favor of guys that our current coach with a history of success wants on the team. Now we just need to hope he can actually get said guys.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work these guys have put in over the years, especially Finke, who basically started as a nobody. That said, I'm excited to move in a new, hopefully more energetic direction that is anathema to Groce-induced lethargic basketball.
 
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
No. Be upset. Demand better than this. Just don't start droning on about firing the coach for three straight years because that's oversimplifying and a waste of everyone's time.

But a healthy Illinois team should never finish with a triple-digit KenPom. It's not good enough and should be seen as the failure that it is. Failing to retain key players with remaining eligibility is also a failure.
I don't fault him for Leron. If a kid has a chance to play professionally, that's a good thing.

I reserve judgment on the rest because we simply don't know what happened behind closed doors. If Underwood is cleaning house because he feels he has better options coming in or because he feels guys were detrimental to the desired culture, then I'm okay with that. If guys are leaving entirely of their own volition like that, it's concerning.
 
I for one am all for the transfers. People lost their minds when the football team had their turnover, and look what players are starting to come in.
Give it time and let’s have faith and see what this staff is cooking up.
Underwood stressed all year emphasizing a culture change. He begged all year for some players to step into a leader-role. That didn’t happen, and the guys that don’t wanna play with a chip on their shoulder can go elsewhere.
I like TJL and MF, the men; but expected more out of them as players. I think we all should have. I think this will all work out well for all parties. MF and TJL would be successful players at mid major level schools, and will get more PT than they will here. It’s obvious they’re being recruited over.

I wish them best of luck, along with Smith. They all seem like pretty good guys.
 
We haven't made the tournament in any of the last 5 years, and said players were part of that (though certainly not all of that).

We only made the NIT thrice in that time and were roundly embarrassed.

This is the only season as HC in which Underwood has failed to make the tournament, so we have to imagine he knows the sort of guys he needs on his roster to succeed.

Given the situation, it seems like the transfers have been essentially mutual.

In my mind, that leaves me optimistic. We are essentially shedding the last vestiges of an old, uncompetitive system in favor of guys that our current coach with a history of success wants on the team. Now we just need to hope he can actually get said guys.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work these guys have put in over the years, especially Finke, who basically started as a nobody. That said, I'm excited to move in a new, hopefully more energetic direction that is anathema to Groce-induced lethargic basketball.
Spot on!
 
Just my opinion... Tejon saw they had recruited over him - got mad - got suspended - and really responded - competed - showed that he is a competitor, winner, player. He has a lot of what Underwood values, he's just a little short for this offense. But great toughness and D, something we really lack.
This is where I am lost. He really began to compete at a higher level. Also think he naturally would have improved over the next 8 months. Then add being surrounded by (potentially) better incoming players would only enhance that. So opting to transfer & sitting out a year seems insane to me.
 
I'm not a fan of chaos or Creaning players. But how many times did BU say this team didn't turn it on when the lights were on? He said this was the first team he had to figure out how to motivate.

We never truly ran the BU offense, because I don't think there was enough buy in. I don't totally buy that we lacked the players for the offense.

When things got tougher in the BIG, our 3 top players were Black, Trent, and Kipper. So I don't know how much of it was BU and how much of it was a realization that certain players weren't going to give you 100 percent all the time.
I am surprised this isn't getting discussed more. Personally when BU would make these statements, I would cringe. Currently this is a sucky situation. But I for one want an IL roster of competitors. The HC shouldn't have to spend a lot of time "figuring out" how to motivate these guys. Would that time be more useful working on the strategic aspects of his job?
Does a HC have to motivate his players? Yes of course. But not to the extent of how this team was described.
 
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