Michigan State 76, Illinois 56 POSTGAME

#76
This team doesn't have a talent problem. It is about heart, either individually or collectively (chemistry)
I disagree. They worked hard the whole game. It is lacking in fundamentals, the lack of basic defensive instruction/defense scheme, an offense that is not going to work against a premium team, and missing shots. I am wondering if the coach understands fundamentals of the game?

One can play all sortsof offensive schemes, look really good, but if they can't make a shot, they lose.

I don't know why many on the team cannot make a shot that they could easily make last year.
 
#79
well.. looking at our shooting percentages against Missouri, Arizona. Michigan state, Maimi and Maryland. Take the average and let us know what you get. They way this team shot the other night at home is not their norm. As JC would always say “ the law of averages” that kicked in tonight. Back to their normal shooting percentage
 
#80
You've heard a few coaches and TV analysts say that the last 5 minutes of the half are unique in how they seem to impact a game.

Winston exited the 1st half at the 5-minute mark after picking up his second foul. From that point, MSU scored 5 points: 2 on a technical, a basket by Rocket Watts (there's a name) and 1 of 3 foul shots made to end the half. The Illini had 4 more shot attempts than MSU over the final 5 but missed 8 of the 12 they had, most of them being in the paint. Frazier also missed their lone FT attempt...front end of 1n1.

Here's my dilemma/consternation: we learned what to do with Winston on the bench for an extended period when MSU played V-Tech. Why did we not employ a press over the final 5 with the kid that they have as his backup? And why not go after Winston at the start of the 2nd half to try to get #3 while the game is still close?

Very puzzling...
 
#81
Tough to spread the court on the offensive end when you are playing 4 on 5. Defense has a huge advantage.
The cuts in spread make you a threat (in theory) because if you catch the ball for a layup that’s 2 free points (in theory). You can run it to push kofi into a postup too after the first cut. You can still get a lot of looks you want, but I’m not even talking about running it most of the time. I’m talking about running it one time even just as a change up. Not running it at all at any point ever in multiple games is just what’s so strange when it’s what he’s known for.

edit: I’m not sure I’m saying this how I want to say it. I don’t disagree we’re playing 4 on 5 I’m just baffled by choosing to play 4 on 5 in a way that’s not the offense you’re known for and you’ve worked so hard to make part of your identity.
 
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#82
Underwood better make some major adjustments before it’s too late and their tourney hopes are gone.
 
#83
The cuts in spread make you a threat (in theory) because if you catch the ball for a layup that’s 2 free points (in theory). You can run it to push kofi into a postup too after the first cut. You can still get a lot of looks you want, but I’m not even talking about running it most of the time. I’m talking about running it one time even just as a change up. Not running it at all at any point ever in multiple games is just what’s so strange when it’s what he’s known for.

edit: I’m not sure I’m saying this how I want to say it. I don’t disagree we’re playing 4 on 5 I’m just baffled by choosing to play 4 on 5 in a way that’s not the offense you’re known for and you’ve worked so hard to make part of your identity.
Well put FiveStar. At least in the last 2 years, there was a clear identity on defense and a clear intent on offense. We didn't have the right players but they still attempted to hit cutters and run spread. I don't have a clue what the offensive scheme is this year, but it is clearly ineffective. On defense, I guess you can say the stats have improved but it doesn't feel 'solid' if that makes any sense.

Also - for all the chatter about Illinois being the 'best rebounding team in the country', I have a sneaking suspicion that is because we are a horrible shooting team and getting more access to offensive rebounds than most teams. :huh:
 
#84
Los Angeles
I agree with the calls for Alan to start. But what if he starts in place of Trent. Let Trent sub in for Ayo. Similar to the “Kofi and Giorgi shouldn’t be in the floor together” argument... could we find Old Trent by letting him be the alpha of the bench squad?
hey that's interesting
 
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#85
Regardless of what people say about Tev, i liked his minutes today. He needs reps, and I guess he's going to have to do it in primetime. He's only taken 3-4 shots this year. We saw last year that he is a willing and able shooter in rhythm. How many of the current team can you say that about??

I agree with the above, we will learn a lot about BU depending on whether he is humble enough to accept reality and start AG next game. He is not only deserving, but he brings a vastly different look. Might get us started faster. I don't agree with benching Trent. Trent, AG, and Ayo on the perimeter has some scoring punch. I would like to see Trent initiate though. Might make a difference. Ayo is what he is - which is very good, but sorely lacking in a true point guard mentality.
 
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#87
How are we this bad of a shooting team?
This is easily one of those games to play the “well shots just didn’t fall card“, but that is hardly the case. This team has regressed substantially from last year on offense. There is little to no off the ball movement outside of guys running the pointless weave to receive a pass. Watching MSU’s guys move into open spots without the ball was a total clinic on offense. MSU got good shots, we just force shots.

One of the biggest flaws I see is that Underwood has no idea how to use Giorgi To score when Kofi is out there at the same time. The best short burst of offense I saw was when Kofi went out with two fouls and Giorgi got the ball on the block 3-4 times in a row where he could operate.

There shouldn’t be any reason why that can’t also happen when they are both out there together. Having Giorgi float on the perimeter kills what little offense Underwood actually tries to run.
 
#88
Can you imagine how much Tom Izzo and Cassius Winston are laughing at Brad Underwood? Also we are shooting 13% from 3 in conference play. Average is 33%. Simply put, this team is bad.
 
#89
We have to get 'Monte out of the starting lineup and it's time to consider bringing Giorgi off the bench. He just doesnt mesh well with Kofi against high-level competition. His skill set is best served at the 5
 
#90
I wish bu would have stuck to that line-up that kept them in it at the end of the half, to start the second half. The starting lineup (I know he doesn't care who starts) but that lineup isn't getting it done.
 
#91
Giorgi is actually playing to his high school recruiting evaluation. Which really wasn't very good. From what I can remember he only averaged 8pts per game while playing the 4.
We quickly realized he had pretty good foot work and was able out maneuver most opponents in the low post. We had no one else to play the 5 so he got the opportunity to shine. He did! And most importantly we put the ball in his hands where he could succeed.
Unfortunately playing around the perimeter and shooting 3's is not his game. In fact he probably is not P-5 player right now if that's where Underwood continues to play him.

Is Giorgi a better fit to start over Kofi at the 5? I think so.
Then who starts at the 4? Kipper? I'm fine with that as long as Underwood stays off his A@@ and let's him do what he's capable of.
Not sure if Underwood could ever do that.
I still believe that Kipper could put up similar numbers that Black had his last year here.
 
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#93
Starters:

1. Frazier
2. Griffin
3. Ayo
4. Nichols
5. Kofi/GB(can't be on the floor together)
I kind of disagree. I actually think we need to play a different offense. How about this:

1. Frazier
2. Griffin
3. Ayo
5. GB
5. Cockburn

GB needs to be inside. Kofi needs to be inside. Figure out a way to play ‘em both inside. GB doesn’t have to play outside at the 4.

I just think we’d be better off playing two big guys inside, and it would make it quite a bit more difficult to defend.
 
#95
I dunno, but I have to ask -- It looked to me like basic shooting mechanics were off for a lot of guys. Was I imagining things?
Looked to me like lack of confidence/determination. Lot's of throwing the ball toward the rim hoping it would go in, but expecting that it wouldn't. .
 
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#96
Well put FiveStar. At least in the last 2 years, there was a clear identity on defense and a clear intent on offense. We didn't have the right players but they still attempted to hit cutters and run spread. I don't have a clue what the offensive scheme is this year, but it is clearly ineffective. On defense, I guess you can say the stats have improved but it doesn't feel 'solid' if that makes any sense.

Also - for all the chatter about Illinois being the 'best rebounding team in the country', I have a sneaking suspicion that is because we are a horrible shooting team and getting more access to offensive rebounds than most teams. :huh:
And we played cupcakes, which is why for a while, we were one of the highest scoring teams in the country.

Water always finds its level.
 
#97
I kind of disagree. I actually think we need to play a different offense. How about this:

1. Frazier
2. Griffin
3. Ayo
5. GB
5. Cockburn

GB needs to be inside. Kofi needs to be inside. Figure out a way to play ‘em both inside. GB doesn’t have to play outside at the 4.

I just think we’d be better off playing two big guys inside, and it would make it quite a bit more difficult to defend.
If they could do that without "clogging up the lane" that would work. With two back to the basket bigs, it's awfully difficult to have enough room to operate. Maybe that's just me overthinking it.
 
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#99
Forgottonia
And we played cupcakes, which is why for a while, we were one of the highest scoring teams in the country.

Water always finds its level.
I’ve been saying the same thing every time I hear those two things. Where do we rank vs Q1 opponents? Nearer the bottom of P5 I would guess.