Missouri 63, Illinois 56 POSTGAME

Not too many coaches on this board. But if we have better talent in a big game shouldn’t we win? That’s the problem. We lose or play even with teams with even or lesser talent. That’s coaching. I thought BU was an X and O guy. But he loses more close games than he wins. I was a BU believer. No longer. He’s failing. Not horribly- but failing. I’m off the train. This team should perform more predictably. It doesn’t.
In games won by 1 or 2 points, we have had 8 of those games in the Underwood era. Our record? 1-7. That says a lot.
 
Have you seen how bad we run the high pick and roll? Our guards were all sick the day they talked about driving the defender into the screen. Why Underwood allows this lack of fundamentals is beyond me., or any other lack of discipline. For instance, blocking your man out. Let's see that happened, yesterday. If a coach allows players to play without sound fundamentals most players will take it. BU and staff don't shoot free throws or miss lay-ups as i often read but they are responsible for much of what we see from the players.
I am not quite sure what is meant when it is said that a coach "allows lack of fundamentals." The player knows the fundamentals, most have been playing for 10 years. The coach knows the fundamentals. I assume passing is a fundamental. If the players do not pass the ball, move without the ball, that is on the coach? Granted the weave is an 'Underblunder." But there is such as thing as "collaborative chemistry" which a team has to develop on its own, independent of coaching. I do not see that yet with the Illini.
 
I was the one yelling at BU for losing 2 years in a row. My exact words “that’s 0-2 Brad”. He came at me being restrained by two security guards. All for the Illini but losing to a sub par Missouri team is unacceptable.
Thanks. JW may want to speak with you.
 
I am not quite sure what is meant when it is said that a coach "allows lack of fundamentals." The player knows the fundamentals, most have been playing for 10 years. The coach knows the fundamentals. I assume passing is a fundamental. If the players do not pass the ball, move without the ball, that is on the coach? Granted the weave is an 'Underblunder." But there is such as thing as "collaborative chemistry" which a team has to develop on its own, independent of coaching. I do not see that yet with the Illini.
If a coach isn't responsible for developing chemistry we need to drop the salary.
 
I’m just going to say this its real simple Griffin must start and Tevian Jones play meaningful minutes. I’m starting to think Underwood doesn’t have a clue on rotations and lineups or even adjusting to the teams strengths and weaknesses.
 
Tevian Jones play meaningful minutes
Why do you think this? What has Jones shown outside of MSG last year that makes you think he can be a difference maker? Also, we are not sure why all the suspensions and imposed sittings by BU? Morale/Integrity, I like the kid and think he could be a good ball player for us, but he really hasn't shown anything so far except how to keep himself from playing for us?

Jones is not a difference maker, he is athletic, but in a I look the part walking into the gym kind of guy, similiar to Kipper. They both look like ballers, they just aren't difference making type of players in reality. To be fair we have few of those overall also.
 
Re: minutes at the wing

Obviously, Damonte is flawed on offense and that position is our biggest weakness in the lineup.

I see Alan as AJ 2.0. He’s a bit bigger and more athletic, but I think he’s similar in the sense that his motor and talent are enough to be a force against lesser teams right now, but he’s not too effective against high majors yet. I have high hopes for his upperclassmen years, and would have no problem with him taking minutes from Damonte for that reason. But he won’t dramatically impact W’s and L’s this year.

As for Tevian, I don’t get the love. Seems like the same mentality on here that always assumes the incoming four-star will immediately start and improve the team. I see Tev as being Joe Bertrand’s game with Darius Paul’s sensibility. The Maryland game last year was the one Big Ten game I missed, so maybe that’s why I’m not on board.
 
I’m starting to think Underwood doesn’t have a clue on rotations and lineups or even adjusting to the teams strengths and weaknesses.
I believe he's stubbornly loyal to Damonte for some reason but that must change. There's no way AG doesn't start over him at this point. The Tevian experiment will work itself out soon, if he doesn't get meaningful minutes in the next 5-6 games we'll know where he stands the rest of this season and beyond.
 
Griffin and Jones averaged combined 20+PPG and 10+ RPG in Italy. Not sure what has changed other than the gyms are not as hot.
 
Likes: DonIllini
I am really old, but like to believe I have gained some knowledge watching so many years of basketball. Ever fan will have 1,2 or even 3 players who don't play much that they think is the answer. It is the reason there is so much hope at the beginning of the season, the unknown. So people saying Alan and TJ need minutes because they are better than everyone else, pump the breaks. They can be nice pieces, but they aren't number one recruits that would change the game completely.

Remember this isn't year 6 for BU. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but he has shown a willingness to adapt. You cannot change your offense in the middle of a game. They are playing a completely different defense because he was willing to change his his philosophies to something that may works better. But again, the players are still learning the defense, it takes time. This is year 3. We are better than year 1. We are better than year 2. As much as we want to think it, Illinois basketball is not the draw it once was for players...why? Because we had a long stretch of John Groce and Bruce Weber losing. So you work your tail off, recruit some guys who can play, and slowly get this thing going again. We almost beat a top 5 team and we did beat another top 5 team. That would have been a fantastic season under Groce...that one win. So let BU lose a few games to gather some knowledge about what works/doesn't work.


Sorry, I am old and I didn't mean to write so much. I hope you take these words as an honest assessment. US fans can rush to a judgement, but I promise that BU has forgot more about basketball than most of us know...Go Illini.
 
I am really old, but like to believe I have gained some knowledge watching so many years of basketball. Ever fan will have 1,2 or even 3 players who don't play much that they think is the answer. It is the reason there is so much hope at the beginning of the season, the unknown. So people saying Alan and TJ need minutes because they are better than everyone else, pump the breaks. They can be nice pieces, but they aren't number one recruits that would change the game completely.

Remember this isn't year 6 for BU. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but he has shown a willingness to adapt. You cannot change your offense in the middle of a game. They are playing a completely different defense because he was willing to change his his philosophies to something that may works better. But again, the players are still learning the defense, it takes time. This is year 3. We are better than year 1. We are better than year 2. As much as we want to think it, Illinois basketball is not the draw it once was for players...why? Because we had a long stretch of John Groce and Bruce Weber losing. So you work your tail off, recruit some guys who can play, and slowly get this thing going again. We almost beat a top 5 team and we did beat another top 5 team. That would have been a fantastic season under Groce...that one win. So let BU lose a few games to gather some knowledge about what works/doesn't work.


Sorry, I am old and I didn't mean to write so much. I hope you take these words as an honest assessment. US fans can rush to a judgement, but I promise that BU has forgot more about basketball than most of us know...Go Illini.
Ward - no disrespect, I’m old too - but BUs teams make the same mistakes and show the same tendencies year after year. His first couple years here I gave him a pass because he had mostly !!!! players and froshmen. That excuse doesn’t fly now. His team is underperforming and his good players seem to be regressing. It’s not good. The Michigan game papered over a ton of issues. Kind of like MSU last year. Other B1G teams with recent coaching changes are leaving us in their dust.
 
Ward - no disrespect, I’m old too - but BUs teams make the same mistakes and show the same tendencies year after year. His first couple years here I gave him a pass because he had mostly !!!! players and froshmen. That excuse doesn’t fly now. His team is underperforming and his good players seem to be regressing. It’s not good. The Michigan game papered over a ton of issues. Kind of like MSU last year. Other B1G teams with recent coaching changes are leaving us in their dust.
Archie Miller, Holtmann and Underwood were all hired about the same time. How would we rank them after 3.5 years??
 
Archie Miller, Holtmann and Underwood were all hired about the same time. How would we rank them after 3.5 years??
How many of those guys lost basically an entire recruiting class and have multiple transfers(most notably JCL). Smith and Finke were after the fact, so can't count them. Those were on his watch.

Not to be disrespectful to our brand, but OSU and Indiana played in the NCAAs more than just one time in the decade, proceeding the change in coaching staffs.
 
Woah woah woah pump the breaks there fella. We’re light years away from coach K. I’m guessing coach k was getting tons out of minimal talent in year 3. This underwood has a decent B1G squad underperforming. He can’t figure out how to make those 4 good guards play together. He has seen Giorgi regress. So where, exactly, is this coaching genius that equates to that d-bag who wins titles like his mentor who also won titles? This is a sad slide into lower B1G mediocrity. Brad ain’t the answer. I thought this last year and felt guilty for being “that fan”. No more. He ain’t got it. Too many B1G coaches outperforming him. Loser.
Number 1. Giorgi will look better in some games more than others. Missouri put a long athletic forward on him. That’s a tough match up.
Number 2. Missouri figured out some things that we already knew. Giorgi won’t shoot 3s from the high post. Feliz is the key to Illinois’ ability to score when the offense isn’t working.
Number 3. Every time the Illini are running a one possession play, Ayo has the ball.
It really couldn’t be easier to defend.
Number 4. If you have quick athletic guards , you can stop Illinois from starting their offense 35 feet from the basket.
 
Archie Miller, Holtmann and Underwood were all hired about the same time. How would we rank them after 3.5 years??
Some don't want to acknowledge this, but our brand, the Illinois name, for the last 12-13 years stinks, in both sports. The programs you mention never lost their iconic names or tradition. No kid gives a damn about what Illinois was in 2005. He's had to/is trying to change that perception.

I know it's unpopular to put issues on the actual players, so for arguments sake, let's put it on his recruiting, but this team is severely lacking at the 2, 3 and 4. We don't have shooters(2 or 3), we don't have slashers(3) and I think GB is a sub par 4. He doesn't handle the ball well, his perimeter play is poor....he doesn't belong there, but that's the influence of Kofi.

If you want to blame BU for anything, it's on building a roster that has holes. Their perimeter play is horrid. Outside of Frazier, who is undersized....nobody respects our shooters, which only creates more issues on the interior.

I know that's an unpopular opinion, but let's face it, the additions of Kofi and Ayo directly impacted the play of GB and TF. Those guys haven't been the same. That's not an opinion, that's fact.
 
Winged Warrior
I truly think BU had his coaching reigns shortened by JW after the Mark Smith season. He's very obviously softer and different now. I think, maybe, he's a coach in the same mold (style not necessarily method) as Izzo and Ratboy, but without the resume to forgive the red faced screaming hard !!! moments.

He's trying to adapt to this new era of CBB....and I agree he's struggling.

I mentioned it earlier this year and this last game showed a few moments where you have to wonder if our Alpha Dog issue between Ayo and Trent is holding us back. We are terrible moving without the ball.

We show few efforts to pass out of the post entry to an open shooter. I understand that we have a perceived advantage in the post, but there needs to be some variety and that is squarely on the coaches. Every time Kofi or Giorgi get the ball in the post they are committed to their post moves and I'm mostly sure that is at the direction of the coaches. When it's working we shoot 60% and dominate the glass, when it's not our offense is completely stagnant.
The obvious result is we have skilled shooters that aren't getting any rhythm and they turn to the weave to get movement.

The minute you see Kofi and Giorgi passing right out of their double and triple team to open AG, TF and Ayo is the minute our offense turns the corner IMO.