Missouri 79, Illinois 63 POSTGAME

[HoopCity]

Well it looks like Underwood is being done like Groce was done. These guys aren't at the Bill Self level of recruiting although given time who knows. I thought Groce's recruits on both teams looked pretty good !! The game showcased them last night. These relationships are built at young ages and need time. We are now in year 2 of starting over again.

 

[Deleted member 31586]

You are looking at things from the wrong perspective (others as well). First, it has little to do on whether the decision to play Tyler was the main reason for losing the game at the end, although one can easily argue that when Tyler entered the game in the first half, the game was certainly still winnable. No doubt about that, most feel like AG certainly would have matched better against Pickett with his length, would have given us a better chance to put some points on the board, and contrary to the parallelism of taking a knee that someone else made, we should always play to win, not play not to lose. Especially in the BR game. And while the decision not to play AG is questionable, the decision to just insert him at the game in garbage time is certainly unjustifiable.

More importantly though, there is no denying that there was a mass exodus last year when 6 players with remaining eligibility decided to leave the program, including all of BU's own recruits with remaining eligibility. There is no denying that there were some "issues," some parents had negative feelings, others took the high road. The last thing you need on that front is having now a parent being livid and openly and publicly criticizing the coach. It is extremely negative for the program and recruiting, especially when the brother of that player is a highly ranked national recruit. Add the fact that some powerful coaches have also publicly made negative comments about BU, it shows there are some serious issues with relationship building both internally and externally, and there is no denying that no matter how many defensive articles Werner and Piper write. That is the real issue, especially for a program that is currently hurting on the court but also on the recruiting trail.

You are so 100% correct with this statement. BU is unliked, is seriously underachieving In recruiting (which is simply critical in basketball), and to top it off he has a serious PR image with not only the CPL (like them or not) and a growing distaste with his players parents. Have we ever had this much going wrong at the same time with any coach at Illinois? I don’t want to be the AD, but you have to be simply blind not to see how bad this all looks right now?

 

[Berg88]

BU made $2.75M his first year, will make $2.85M his second year, we paid his $3M buyout at OSU, and he has a $12.4M buyout. That is a combined financial exposure and investment of $21M. Obviously, not the best structured contract IMO, when the entire Ubben renovation will cost $30M in comparison.

It's easy to bash the contract now, but at the time, having just poached him from another power 5 school, with loud rumors that his alma mater's head coaching position could very well open up the following year, the big buyout seemed reasonable to many of us here. Reasonable is probably too soft, it was critical to many of us here. Obviously, none of us, or BU or Whitman I'm sure, expected us to be here not even 2 years later. Truth be told, I can't imagine Whitman has put consideration into a coaching change this year. Too much money. Plus, who would want to take this (or any) job knowing that you may well only get 2 years to turn it around?

 

[Beendownsince99]

The criticism of Underwood isn't with out warrant. Every fan base does this and the simple fact Illini have been bad for the better part of a decade. Does he need time yes but how much time. This team is worse than last year. If it trends that away next year then his time should be up. Hate the swinging door mentality but you have to get results, no power 5 team would allow 3 years of no improvement. Especially if you play #wewillwin motto so hopefully we see something. I think we all would agree we want him to succeed. Go illino

 

[illini62707]

I haven't read any posts that attack TU personally. I have read many that strongly think he should not be given minutes over players like Griffin because he's not near as good at playing the game of basketball (of which i agree) and that this could possibly impact players and parents (present and future) perception of playing for Illinois which i hope isn't true but i think could be for some.

 

[CasualObserver05]

24 + hours have passed and a few thoughts:

• Progress the rest of the way HAS to be Whitman's directive without the loss of another roster. Please play the highly recruited kids on the roster, show them the progress they're making, allow them to see what is to come next year and beyond.
• Kofi really, really, really needs to have an awesome visit and hopefully look beyond the present!

 

[Obelix]

This is a problem in itself. Not just at UofI, but at the major college level. Why are contracts with enormous buy outs like this being offered?

You can't just evaluate contracts and buyouts in isolation. The most important thing is "fit" and IMO in order to be successful at Illinois you have to be a very strong recruiter. That is imperative, and that is how Illinois became successful in the golden eras (1980s and 1999-06). Now if you can find a tremendous recruiter who also has a very strong coaching record, you definitely have to break that bank to bring him to Illinois, you will have to pay above market value (contract/buyout). For me that coach was Archie Miller, he would have been an absolute home run (and said so at the time, my #1 choice). I also would have paid above market value for Chris Mack. Yet, even if you can't close on those, you look at the major requirement (very strong recruiter) and try to make a strong play for an up-and-comer in that category but not as established. IMO that was Kevin Keatts (my #2 choice) who would have required a lesser contract and definitely buyout. Self was actually a Keatts type back in 2000, more of an up-and-comer at the time that did not require top dollar and buyout (compared to the level back in 2000).

I talk to coaches all the time and over the years, and I have never heard BU mentioned as a strong recruiter. Joe Henricksen actually mentioned the same thing in an interview when he was hired. He simply does not have such reputation. So I do not know what the thinking was in the AD, but it must have been that we will build a consistent winner without a very strong recruiter as a HC (#wewillwin). Personally, I do not think this is possible but even if someone disagrees, come talk to me when it actually happens at UI.

So we offer someone who IMO was not a good fit, OK... but then we triple his salary from what OSU had paid just a year ago, we pay his buyout ($3M) and we also give him huge golden parachute/buyout ($15.25M first year! vs. 3M at OSU, $12.4M second year, etc.). That is IMO a ridiculous contract and I can't see what BU had done to deserve such royal treatment, but the most important thing IMO is that he is not a very strong recruiter, not a good fit for UI, not his contract. Maybe he can be successful at other places, but the only way things could change with BU is if recruiting drastically improves. Unfortunately, there is no such evidence in his career so far and definitely we have not seen such evidence (very strong recruiting) at UI so far either. So my only true hope is a "miracle" turnaround in recruiting more than anything based on evidence. JMO.

 

[Dbell1981]

U of I consistently has one of the top engineering schools in the country, and in general the university is recognized as a strong, rigorous academic institution. So it can be said with confidence that the U of I is a university where logic is valued and rigorously cultivated.

To state that Tyler Underwood is playing because he's the coach's son is a conclusión that many of us are inferring through simple logic.

Under normal circumstances...

If a player gets game time, it is because he is adding value to the team within the game. [p -> q]

Therefore, if a player is not adding value to the team within the game, he will not get game time. [¬q -> ¬p]

But this is not true in the case of Tyler Underwood, who adds no observable in-game value to the team yet still gets game time (not one poster, in discussing this issue, has produced even a single point of evidence where Tyler Underwood has done something productive in a game).

Therefore, Tyler must be playing for some other reason (besides adding in-game value to the team).

You think it's classless for some of us to conclude that TU is playing because he is the coach's son. While we think (with all due respect) that you are blind to our straightforward logic, and perhaps a touch naive, for believing otherwise.

Or maybe his son that has grown up with him, knows the defensive rotations of his system and communicates that to teammates better than a freshman that is still learning it is a possibility. Unless you are at practice everyday you are just spewing out assumptions and opinions just like everyone else. I believe coach did make a mistake by not playing Griffin as well but I'll reserve judgement cause I dont know a thing about what is going on inside of the locker room and neither do any of you. For all you guys know the team could support TU being in the rotation. Maybe they looked pissed off cause they were pissed off. Losing sucks. I believe we have kids that will catch on and prove all you guys wrong. Guess we will just have to wait until offseason to see if these guys like playing for Underwood and stick around or transfer out like all you are saying. Only person I think will possibly leave is Higgs but that's just a guess. Getting Jones back soon should help as well. No doubt we need our talent on the floor but none of knows what's going on behind the scenes(on and off the court). I mean can no one see that this team is just inexperienced and thrown into the fire?? We all knew this was gonna be rough but here you guys are ready to start over before he can even teach these kids up. DaMonte not giving us anything is really hurting. If he gave us more and Ayo didn't get 2 fouls TU probably doesn't even touch the floor. You guys are blowing this WAY out of proportion. The only thing I can say is coach Underwoods head was amazingly big making out this years schedule knowing how the roster would be. I'm in the corner that hopes it doesn't cost him his teams support through the steep climb and costs him his job. I still think we can finish with a similar or better record than last year. As long as we can be tough through the end of the season these youngsters will be fine.

 

[illinitiger]

I haven't read any posts that attack TU personally. I have read many that strongly think he should not be given minutes over players like Griffin because he's not near as good at playing the game of basketball (of which i agree) and that this could possibly impact players and parents (present and future) perception of playing for Illinois which i hope isn't true but i think could be for some.

If we win BR game...this would not be an issue. I think when you are in the last 7 min. and no one is making FTs or making baskets you need to look to your bench and look for offense options. AG was one of those with fresh legs. Aside from pissing off player moms, BU had other options to match Mizzou's torid offense down the stretch... he didn't manage the stretch and watched gassed guys miss shots and FTs. If ai were BU I would aim to give every freshman minimum of 15min of playing time from here on out. The film study and learning is valuable and they are our future.

 

[pruman91]

I've reached the point where my expectations for the Illini from the head coach all the way down to the team managers is froth with negativity and the realization that this will be the worst record in Illini history....Combine that with a coach who yells and screams like a banshee on the court and in the huddles will lead to a complete breakdown in morale...
Playing Tyler ahead of Alan G. is wrong any way you look at it...From a parents perspective , I dont blame momma G. for being pissed and would not be surprised if we see a transfer or two from the current roster....What would happen to this forum if trent announced he was transferring at the end of the season ?
I'll still watch and root for the Illini but my expectations are numb right now and I am preparing for the worst to happen every day....it seems like the rock bottom is approaching fast and I never would have even entertained that thought before the season started....It's clear that the path this team and coach are taking is not going to be fruitful and something has to change or the name on the back of some jerseys will change along with the name attached to the head coach's position...

I am bitter that we lost to the bums to the west, but getting more bitter about the direction of the Illini...SMH

 

[ChuckM]

I talk to coaches all the time and over the years, and I have never heard BU mentioned as a strong recruiter. Joe Henricksen actually mentioned the same thing in an interview when he was hired. He simply does not have such reputation. So I do not know what the thinking was in the AD, but it must have been that we will build a consistent winner without a very strong recruiter as a HC (#wewillwin). Personally, I do not think this is possible but even if someone disagrees, come talk to me when it actually happens at UI.

So we offer someone who IMO was not a good fit, OK... but then we triple his salary from what OSU had paid just a year ago, we pay his buyout ($3M) and we also give him huge golden parachute/buyout ($15.25M first year! vs. 3M at OSU, $12.4M second year, etc.). That is IMO a ridiculous contract and I can't see what BU had done to deserve such royal treatment, but the most important thing IMO is that he is not a very strong recruiter, not a good fit for UI, not his contract. Maybe he can be successful at other places, but the only way things could change with BU is if recruiting drastically improves. Unfortunately, there is no such evidence in his career so far and definitely we have not seen such evidence (very strong recruiting) at UI so far either. So my only true hope is a "miracle" turnaround in recruiting more than anything based on evidence. JMO.

Right or wrong the thinking was Underwood was a winner and winning games right off the bat would make him a good recruiter for a team like Illinois.

I live in the St. Louis area and very seldom is the Illini coaching staff around here. You're not going to recruit the area well like that. C. Martin and Chris Hollender are here what seems like every other weekend all year long. They hold camps and even attend youth events not basketball related. Now we read articles where Underwood and his assistants are too busy to go to Chicago and it makes you wonder, are they not good recruiters or just not putting in the effort that it takes. Another big mistake was Orlando Antigua. His history should have kept them away from him anyways.

 

[Notyours]

Not arguing about AG not getting playing time but according to box score, TU got 5 min vs 2 min for AG...hardly a fireable offense. My thought is AG could have/should have shared time with Ayo. Having Trent, AG, AJ and KN gives us a really potent 3p shooting lineup....we didnt see it.

I agree, it by itself isn’t a fireable offense. That being said, tie it together with other things and it brings way more questions than answers for this program going forward. Playing your walk on son over scholarship athletes 99 times out of 100 is a bad choice.

I’m not on the fire BU bandwagon yet. The sad thing is, I’m not on it cause I cringe at starting over with a new coach again.

 

[sbillini]

I can't believe this TU thing has turned into such a big issue

1. Looking at advanced stats, him and AG are not that far apart. AG is a +3.6, TU is a +3.3. BU is right, TU is light years ahead of AG in defense (+5.1 TU vs +2.0 AG) but TU is light years behind in offense. I'm not saying I agree with BU's decision (I don't), it wasn't a decision that heavily impacted the game.
2. AG has played more than 2x the minutes this season than TU (87 vs 41). And that's with him not getting any tick at the ETSU game on his own accord. Some may argue that 41 is still too much for TU, and I don't disagree, but it's not like AG is not getting chances.
3. Does it look bad that a freshman doesn't get meaningful playing time in a high profile game? Maybe (I would argue yes to some degree, but you don't put that over winning a game). Did any freshman play well during this game (outside of perhaps Giorgi), not really and, again, stat wise, him and TU are in the same ballpark.
4. Did TU play in the 2nd half in the game at all once Ayo's foul issues were passed? I'm pretty sure he didn't (or at least only got garage time - I might have missed that). Did we lose the 2nd half worse than the first? Yes.

To me, the (much) bigger issue is defense. We still haven't figured out how to play BU's style while still being able to rotate efficiently/effectively enough to not give open looks. The only reason we were in it for the 1st half of the 2nd half is because Mizzou missed several wide open shots (esp. 3s) that continued giving us chances. One the law of large numbers there kicked in there, we had no chance. I'm not smart enough to know if it's a scheme issue, talent/athleticism, or a learning issue. But it almost doesn't matter, something needs to change there to adjust for it to salvage the season.

 

[ILL773INI]

Cuonzo Martin out coached Underwood. We rip on Cuonzo all the time and yet he out coached BU. BU cant recruit, he pisses his own players and their parents off and he cant coach. This guy is in so far over his head and it is setting our program back even further. Cuonzo is doing a better job of turning around a worse program with less prestige than BU. Why can't we just catch a break every once in a while.

 

[illinitiger]

Right or wrong the thinking was Underwood was a winner and winning games right off the bat would make him a good recruiter for a team like Illinois.

I live in the St. Louis area and very seldom is the Illini coaching staff around here. You're not going to recruit the area well like that. C. Martin and Chris Hollender are here what seems like every other weekend all year long. They hold camps and even attend youth events not basketball related. Now we read articles where Underwood and his assistants are too busy to go to Chicago and it makes you wonder, are they not good recruiters or just not putting in the effort that it takes. Another big mistake was Orlando Antigua. His history should have kept them away from him anyways.

I agree with the winning off the bat theory of BU hire and bought in. Looking back....it seems that if you were expecting to win off bat, you would have structured contract and buyout much differently. Paying him 4M/yr with guarantee for 3 yrs without a buyout would have been a better business decision than leaving yourself as AD with a 20M buyout after year 2. I hope JW has learned from this.

 

[Deleted member 8632]

The most troubling part is that coach Underwood upset someone’s mom.

I dont disagree with Mrs Griffin's frustration but you need to have a private conversation with the coach and air out your concerns that way. Social media has become a platform for everyone to complain about everything without actually addressing the problem head on. JMO

 

[alexander58]

I dont disagree with Mrs Griffin's frustration but you need to have a private conversation with the coach and air out your concerns that way. Social media has become a platform for everyone to complain about everything without actually addressing the problem head on.

I draw the line when your son/ daughter starts college . Young adults should be encouraged to deal with issues on their own. If you do nothing else as a parent, you teach your kids to be independent adults. Griffin apparently has had issues with being late. Consequences were attached to the offense. Griffin is athletic and long and looks to have a lot of upside . He reminds me of Joe Bertrand with a better shot. Like most freshmen, he needs to adjust to the speed of the game. He tends to make nervous decisions which result in turnovers. I’m sure he’ll grow out of it. In the mean time, others may take minutes. I don’t get the whole “disrespect “ thing related to have a walk on take your minutes or just getting mop up minutes . A little humility never hurt anyone. I wish Aaron Jordan had more siblings coming up.

 

[Illinivek23]

Back in the day, we worked harder (or smarter) to get get more playing time. If he's in the doghouse, needs to figure out how to get out of it. Seemed logical to play AG for his 3 shooting when we fell behind, but I'm not in the loop on what is going on behind the scenes. Bigger question is why do we abandon the offense and not assist our teammates?

The season is frustrating, because we have some pieces to be better than we have been playing.

 

[FortWayneFan]

And to think, moms loved JG. Sorry, but it seems there are some pretty wild and fact-less assumptions being made. I hope you all have a Merry holiday!

 

[dbeverly26]

So we offer someone who IMO was not a good fit, OK... but then we triple his salary from what OSU had paid just a year ago, we pay his buyout ($3M) and we also give him huge golden parachute/buyout ($15.25M first year! vs. 3M at OSU, $12.4M second year, etc.). That is IMO a ridiculous contract and I can't see what BU had done to deserve such royal treatment, but the most important thing IMO is that he is not a very strong recruiter, not a good fit for UI, not his contract. Maybe he can be successful at other places, but the only way things could change with BU is if recruiting drastically improves. Unfortunately, there is no such evidence in his career so far and definitely we have not seen such evidence (very strong recruiting) at UI so far either. So my only true hope is a "miracle" turnaround in recruiting more than anything based on evidence. JMO.

I don't think that either Mack or Miller would have entertained taking this job, even if they had been offered NBA money to do so. They (rightly) waited for much better opportunities.

If you look at the details of the contracts, Keatts' deal isn't that much below what we are paying Underwood. The base compensation is about $500K apart, which is meaningful but not ridiculous. The buyouts -- both from the previous job and those structured into their current contracts -- are markedly different, but as I understand it Keatts negotiated a lower buyout based on the NCAA axe swinging over NC State's head at the time he signed the contract. And regardless, the buyout that Illinois gave Underwood isn't particularly relevant until you get past the first four years. Absent obvious malfeasance, you can't even entertain firing him after two or three years. This job is a tough enough sell to begin with for a high-profile coach, but if the AD starts showing a pattern of firing coaches early we'll have a tough time getting prospective replacements to step in.

There's a yawning chasm in terms of perception of this program between its fans (and especially the fans who frequent this board) and everyone else. Underwood inherited a steaming turd of a roster, facilities that somehow survived a $200MM renovation without getting up to par for a high-major program, hostile relationships with the media and high school/AAU coaches that stretch back to the last century, and an absurdly toxic booster environment that had folks looking for reasons to hate the new coach two months into his tenure.

The 'everyone else' determines who will take the job and for how much. There might have been candidates who were a better fit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Underwood could have been had for less than what we gave him.

 

[illini62707]

A few posters have mentioned the time TU is getting isn't much, so why the uproar. Underwood, brought in 6 frosh to be a building block for the program. So, i think it's important for him to find some playing time for the 3 who haven't been on the floor much. I know i don't see these guys in practice, but i'd still like to see them get enough time to get more comfortable on the floor and so i can see what they bring.
I think Underwood is in a position where he has to keep these frosh and families somewhat "happy". Now, i don't even agree with what i just said, but if you decide to build the team the way he has the foundation who are these freshmen has to be stable.
As a previous poster said i would try to give these guys 12-15 minutes a game. Samba Kane has played well enough to deserve those minutes.
Some have said it's ridiculous conjecture to post some of these guys may be thinking about leaving, because we don't know what they think. Well, i agree i don't have a clue what any of these guys are thinking, but when you have 4 guys transfer out after last year for various reasons i don't think it's not within reason to be concerned some could leave , again. Illinois has nobody signed for next year. Conjecture; i don't think the program can absorb any transfers, again, this year.

 

[Obelix]

I don't think that either Mack or Miller would have entertained taking this job, even if they had been offered NBA money to do so. They (rightly) waited for much better opportunities.

If you look at the details of the contracts, Keatts' deal isn't that much below what we are paying Underwood. The base compensation is about $500K apart, which is meaningful but not ridiculous. The buyouts -- both from the previous job and those structured into their current contracts -- are markedly different, but as I understand it Keatts negotiated a lower buyout based on the NCAA axe swinging over NC State's head at the time he signed the contract. And regardless, the buyout that Illinois gave Underwood isn't particularly relevant until you get past the first four years. Absent obvious malfeasance, you can't even entertain firing him after two or three years. This job is a tough enough sell to begin with for a high-profile coach, but if the AD starts showing a pattern of firing coaches early we'll have a tough time getting prospective replacements to step in.

There's a yawning chasm in terms of perception of this program between its fans (and especially the fans who frequent this board) and everyone else. Underwood inherited a steaming turd of a roster, facilities that somehow survived a $200MM renovation without getting up to par for a high-major program, hostile relationships with the media and high school/AAU coaches that stretch back to the last century, and an absurdly toxic booster environment that had folks looking for reasons to hate the new coach two months into his tenure.

The 'everyone else' determines who will take the job and for how much. There might have been candidates who were a better fit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Underwood could have been had for less than what we gave him.

Again, the decision to triple the salary from what OSU had paid just a year ago for some and pay his buyout ($3M) for someone who is not a strong recruiter and fit, is a bad decision. But it pales in comparison to the decision to give him a huge golden parachute/buyout ($15.25M first year! vs. 3M at OSU, $12.4M second year, etc.). That decision is simply ridiculous and there is not much in his resume to deserve that. We are clearly stuck with Underwood and there is no way of sugarcoating it. Keatts would haven been a much more viable choice, a better fit, and much more affordable.

Everyone thought that the multi-million Assembly Hall renovation was going to have a big impact and was much needed. It had zero impact... now people claim we "survived" that renovation and all that money was wasted did not get us on par. The problem with our program is not SFC, and while Ubben needs renovation, it is hardly a solid decision to have a financial exposure of $21M on a mediocre coach in 2 years when you spend $30M for Ubben renovation in comparison.

Furthermore, let's not kid around. When Self took over in 2000, the program had been boycotted by both HS/AAU and also media. The situation was much more toxic. Self was able to mend fences in record time, and the subsequent 3 regimes have simply failed to build and maintain relationships. When articles are getting published with coaches making negative comments and a recruits mother (who is also the mother of one of the top ranked 5* prospects) takes on twitter against a coach, it just shows even more the inability to build internal and external relationships. If you think BU can't succeed in that environment, then he simply shouldn't have been an applicant for this job and definitely should not had been selected.

As far as the program, we were pretty much an NIT program during the previous regime and we all thought that it was not enough. It is not the impossibility to take an NIT program and make it an NCAA program as some people present. Neither does it necessitate driving the program to the bottom of the B1G and pre-Henson years. There is absolutely no reason for that, neither is there much justification in the belief that we are about to make some miraculous ascend to prominence, because recruiting has not been going well either.

 

[SummerofGeorge]

Or maybe his son that has grown up with him, knows the defensive rotations of his system and communicates that to teammates better than a freshman that is still learning it is a possibility. Unless you are at practice everyday you are just spewing out assumptions and opinions just like everyone else. I believe coach did make a mistake by not playing Griffin as well but I'll reserve judgement cause I dont know a thing about what is going on inside of the locker room and neither do any of you. For all you guys know the team could support TU being in the rotation. Maybe they looked pissed off cause they were pissed off. Losing sucks. I believe we have kids that will catch on and prove all you guys wrong. Guess we will just have to wait until offseason to see if these guys like playing for Underwood and stick around or transfer out like all you are saying. Only person I think will possibly leave is Higgs but that's just a guess. Getting Jones back soon should help as well. No doubt we need our talent on the floor but none of knows what's going on behind the scenes(on and off the court). I mean can no one see that this team is just inexperienced and thrown into the fire?? We all knew this was gonna be rough but here you guys are ready to start over before he can even teach these kids up. DaMonte not giving us anything is really hurting. If he gave us more and Ayo didn't get 2 fouls TU probably doesn't even touch the floor. You guys are blowing this WAY out of proportion. The only thing I can say is coach Underwoods head was amazingly big making out this years schedule knowing how the roster would be. I'm in the corner that hopes it doesn't cost him his teams support through the steep climb and costs him his job. I still think we can finish with a similar or better record than last year. As long as we can be tough through the end of the season these youngsters will be fine.

Been thinking about this a lot. Wondering where we would be with a schedule similar to last year. My guess is we would have a better record but a false sense of reality. I’d like to think the lumps we are taking will net accelerated growth long term. At least we know where we stand against the right measuring stick. You are spot on in this post imo. Well done!

 

[ChocolateThunder]

Yeah, I

I’ve maintained all along that the combination of youth and a talent deficit would keep this team from winning games regardless of what style they played. It’s not like Damonte would be a scorer if he was in another system or role. And for all of the frustration about our defensive field goal percentage, I honestly don’t think that the bottom line would be any better if you traded the high turnover rate for a middling number of both turnovers and shooting.

Yeah, I think youth and talent account for more of the explanation than system. Weber's system worked when he had talent and did not work very well when he did not..

 

[pruman91]

One only has to look at the box score to see that TU playing did not lose this game.

I never stated that playing TU ahead of AG was a reason for the loss, but doing that could lead to the loss of AG and any hope we had for his brother also...based on Mrs. G's twitter that might have already evaporated, but playing time for TU has shown me zero offensive ability and numerous times of TU fronting a bigger player and looking lost at best...he did have a poor pass to Kipper and why wasn't he pulled and yelled at like other players ?

Smells funny to me that TU got tick and AG got less....if I remember AG got to start some games before the alarm clock issue...has he digressed to where he is less a player than TU...

I just hope we see AG and Tevian on the roster next year...thats my main concern right now...W-L record will be worst ever in Illini history so play the players with the most ability and stop the damn yelling...It hasn't worked so far so try something else.....

last few years of Bubbles, then Groce and now this....going the wrong way if you ask me.