MLB Hall of Fame Modern Era Class of 2020 candidates

#1
Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons and Lou Whitaker are candidates for the Hall of Fame. The 16-member Modern Baseball Era Committee will vote on them with the results released at the Dec 8 at the Baseball Winter Meetings in San Diego.

I can't imagine Marv Miller not being in the Hall. He had a profound effect on the game. For good or ill, his handling of the players union was masterful.

Several others have a pretty good shot of making it as well.

The only one I am familiar with is Ted Simmons. Based on the other catchers who are currently enshrined he belongs as well.

Looking at the various stats:
averages: 8 have a higher career average and 6 a lower average.
OBP: 10 and 4
Slugging: 11/3
Hits: 0/14
Doubles: 0/14
Home runs: 5/9
Rbi: 1/13
Runs 3/11

The worst catcher in the Hall played in the Dead Ball Era so it's hard to compare but Ray Schalk has a slash line of .253/.340/.316

Compare these:
.262/.335/.439/ 2092 hits/ 371 doubles/ 324 hr/ 1225 rbi/ 1025 runs 19 years
.269/.343/.457/ 2356 hits/ 421 doubles/ 376 hr/ 1330 rbi/ 1276 runs 24 years
.285/.348/.437/ 2472 hits/ 483 doubles/ 248 hr/ 1389 rbi/ 1074 runs 21 years

They all played in the same era. Roughly the 70-80's.

Gary Carter
Carlton Fisk
Ted Simmons
 
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#2
Do a side by side comparison of Lou Whitaker with Barry Larkin, Ryne Sandberg, Alan Trammel, Joe Morgan and Roberto Alomar. He’s very similar. Not much reason to put the others in the Hall and Whitaker not.

Ted Simmons is very easily the best eligible catcher not in the Hall. For a vastly underrepresented position (There are 18 catchers in the Hall - only 3B has fewer) considering the position’s importance, he should probably be in the Hall.
 
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#3
Ted Simmons is very easily the best eligible catcher not in the Hall.
I think you could make an argument for Brian Downing and Joe Torre (in as a manager, but not as a player) except that they played less than a third and a half of their careers respectively as primarily a catcher. Simmons on the other hand caught nearly 1,700 games.
 
#4
I think you could make an argument for Brian Downing and Joe Torre (in as a manager, but not as a player) except that they played less than a third and a half of their careers respectively as primarily a catcher. Simmons on the other hand caught nearly 1,700 games.
I could further add that Joe Torre’s career as a catcher basically ended with Ted Simmons’ arrival in the Majors. The Cardinals moved him to 3B, where he promptly won an MVP.
 
#5
Do a side by side comparison of Lou Whitaker with Barry Larkin, Ryne Sandberg, Alan Trammel, Joe Morgan and Roberto Alomar. He’s very similar. Not much reason to put the others in the Hall and Whitaker not.

Ted Simmons is very easily the best eligible catcher not in the Hall. For a vastly underrepresented position (There are 18 catchers in the Hall - only 3B has fewer) considering the position’s importance, he should probably be in the Hall.
I thought Whitaker could be considered. I didn't get any comparisons.
 
#6
Iowa City
Do a side by side comparison of Lou Whitaker with Barry Larkin, Ryne Sandberg, Alan Trammel, Joe Morgan and Roberto Alomar. He’s very similar. Not much reason to put the others in the Hall and Whitaker not.

Ted Simmons is very easily the best eligible catcher not in the Hall. For a vastly underrepresented position (There are 18 catchers in the Hall - only 3B has fewer) considering the position’s importance, he should probably be in the Hall.
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Blind comparison of 4 from your list.


Top to Bottom.....Lou Whitaker, Barry Larkin, Ryne Sandberg, Joe Morgan
This is from Baseball-Reference.
 
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#7
Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons and Lou Whitaker are candidates for the Hall of Fame. The 16-member Modern Baseball Era Committee will vote on them with the results released at the Dec 8 at the Baseball Winter Meetings in San Diego.
My votes:

IN:

Lou Whitaker
Dwight Evans
Tommy John
Ted Simmons


OUT:
Thurman Munson (no peak)
Steve Garvey
Don Mattingly (good peak, just fell off a cliff) (plus, terrible side burns)
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker

Marvin Miller means nothing to me. Catchers are severally under-represented in the HOF, just because their careers tend to be short. Simba should definitely be in, the other catchers on the list just weren't good enough.
 
#8
Catchers are severally under-represented in the HOF, just because their careers tend to be short.
Because of the importance of the position, I’d argue there should be a different standard for catchers that takes that injury factor into account.

In some ways I think the catcher position’s Hall chances have been hurt by Johnny Bench. He set a near impossible standard to surpass for future candidates. There was a pretty clear drop off in inductions after him. No catchers inducted between 1989 and 2000 (Fisk).

I’ll be curious to see if Mariano Rivera does the same for relievers. But he may have lapped the field by so much - a la Wayne Gretzky or Jerry Rice - that nobody will ever try to make other relievers live up to that standard.
 
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#9
Because of the importance of the position, I’d argue there should be a different standard for catchers that takes that injury factor into account.

In some ways I think the catcher position’s Hall chances have been hurt by Johnny Bench. He set a near impossible standard to surpass for future candidates. There was a pretty clear drop off in inductions after him. No catchers inducted between 1989 and 2000 (Fisk).

I’ll be curious to see if Mariano Rivera does the same for relievers. But he may have lapped the field by so much - a la Wayne Gretzky or Jerry Rice - that nobody will ever try to make other relievers live up to that standard.
I have controversial opinions on relievers in the Hall of Fame (if they were good, they'd have been starters, hold them to the same standards as starters). But I admit that's illogical, that basically makes Rivera the only even border line reliever to make it and nobody else ever will.

The new framing figures will help value catchers better moving forward. Catchers are always going to wear down quicker and usually be worse hitters (because of being run down) than your run of the mill HOF position player. It's also one of the most important defensive positions on the field that isn't measured even close to as well as other positions. The framing data obviously can't go back that far, but at least it allows guys like Molina who are career "league average" hitters to be HOF worthy with their defensive abilities.
 
#10
View attachment 5035

Blind comparison of 4 from your list.


Top to Bottom.....Lou Whitaker, Barry Larkin, Ryne Sandberg, Joe Morgan
This is from Baseball-Reference.
Nice summary. I always wondered if Barry was just a little light on HoF credentials but I had him on my fantasy team for years in his heyday so I didn't mind him getting the nod. In looking at the numbers I see his stats are a little stronger than Ryno's. It goes back to the assertion that many have made over the years, the hard cold numbers are only part of the equation. Both of them were elite players at their position in their era.
 
#11
The new framing figures will help value catchers better moving forward. Catchers are always going to wear down quicker and usually be worse hitters (because of being run down) than your run of the mill HOF position player. It's also one of the most important defensive positions on the field that isn't measured even close to as well as other positions. The framing data obviously can't go back that far, but at least it allows guys like Molina who are career "league average" hitters to be HOF worthy with their defensive abilities.
Brian McCann is the guy who is going to be helped by the catcher framing stats more than anyone else. BR doesn’t use framing in their WAR calculations and FG does. His bWAR is 31.8 and his fWAR is 54.5! Molina, Russell Martin and Posey all get nice WAR boosts, too, but nowhere as extreme.

That’s the difference between pretty good offensive catcher and borderline HoFer.
 
#12
Nice summary. I always wondered if Barry was just a little light on HoF credentials but I had him on my fantasy team for years in his heyday so I didn't mind him getting the nod. In looking at the numbers I see his stats are a little stronger than Ryno's. It goes back to the assertion that many have made over the years, the hard cold numbers are only part of the equation. Both of them were elite players at their position in their era.
Barry played SS. I’m assuming he got credit from voters for his defense (had the misfortune of playing during the Wizards reign)
 
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#13
Barry played SS. I’m assuming he got credit from voters for his defense (had the misfortune of playing during the Wizards reign)
Larkin was a good defensive shortstop, but I wouldn’t say a great one. Garry Templeton and Tony Fernandez are good comps. He wasn’t on the same level as Trammell and Ripken, for example.

Ozzie of course was on a plane all by himself.
 
#14
Barry played SS. I’m assuming he got credit from voters for his defense (had the misfortune of playing during the Wizards reign)
You are correct. Sorry I wasn't clear on my comments. I went to a funeral for a 17 year old that committed suicide today. I have been thinking of a friend of mine. It was his grandson.

Life has so much to offer and it hurts when people give up way too soon.
 
#15
Cary, IL
You are correct. Sorry I wasn't clear on my comments. I went to a funeral for a 17 year old that committed suicide today. I have been thinking of a friend of mine. It was his grandson.

Life has so much to offer and it hurts when people give up way too soon.
Terribly sorry for your, and your friend's loss. Life is precious, it is just tough to see it sometimes.
 
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