NABC wants SAT and ACT eliminated as an eligibility requirement for college players

#2
South Carolina
#4
What will the dropout rates be at U of I if they remove ACT score requirements? Not asking about athletes specifically but in general
ACT/SAT scores are an extremely imperfect indicator about a student's likelihood to successfully complete a college degree. Plenty of classmates with 30+ ACT scores dropped out while I was in school and plenty in the mid-20s made it all the way through. I would expect there won't be a huge effect.
 
#5
South Carolina
ACT/SAT scores are an extremely imperfect indicator about a student's likelihood to successfully complete a college degree. Plenty of classmates with 30+ ACT scores dropped out while I was in school and plenty in the mid-20s made it all the way through. I would expect there won't be a huge effect.
I haven't done any research on the topic, I always assumed the ACT/SAT were worth something so this is all news to me. So you just let people in based on GPA or what?
 
#6
What will the dropout rates be at U of I if they remove ACT score requirements? Not asking about athletes specifically but in general
I don't see how removing this would have much of an effect on the composition of the student body outside of athletes. It will still be a major metric in making admission decisions. Can't imagine the U of I would suddenly start admitting a bunch of prospective students that fall below the current threshold (18?), unless that person also is a sought-after recruit.

So, in other words, don't think this would have much of an impact outside of sports. Same goes for dropout rates, etc.
 
#7
I haven't done any research on the topic, I always assumed the ACT/SAT were worth something so this is all news to me. So you just let people in based on GPA or what?
How would you compare the GPA for a student from Baltimore with that of a student from Batavia if they have taken very few courses in common?
 
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#8
I haven't done any research on the topic, I always assumed the ACT/SAT were worth something so this is all news to me. So you just let people in based on GPA or what?
Test scores are worth something (a lot) in admission decisions. But Craig is saying that they aren't a great indicator of future performance, i.e. once the student is on campus.
 
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#9
Chicago, IL
I haven't done any research on the topic, I always assumed the ACT/SAT were worth something so this is all news to me. So you just let people in based on GPA or what?
How would you compare the GPA for a student from Baltimore with that of a student from Batavia if they have taken very few courses in common?
As a college and career counselor, I quickly learned that big schools like Illinois know the variations across states. For non-athletes, they look at the GPA and are looking for a student with consistent high effort and achievement, preferably who was also involved in the school community (clubs, sports, etc.) and/or a job or something similar. I went to a workshop at Illinois specifically where they took us through the application evaluation process so we could better help our students. The admissions counselors understand that a student coming from inner city Baltimore won't have the same opportunity to take AP classes, etc. as a student in Batavia. They take that into consideration. It isn't a perfect system, but they do what they can to account for inequalities and are constantly adjusting it. That's where regional reps come into play since they report back to admissions about what's available where; they're also the ones who call out the students in privileged districts who attempt to pad their GPA with BS classes.

As for athletes, we all know that comes down to who coach wants and if they pass the NCAA Clearinghouse more than anything else.

EDIT: ACT/SAT aren't seen as the equalizer they used to be. They're important and show potential (or lack of effort when a student has an outstanding SAT/ACT but a mediocre GPA), but given the inequalities in public education depending on the socioeconomic status of the community, schools are realizing that students in poorer districts are at a disadvantage there and are taking that into consideration as well. That's not just Illinois, that's across the board.
 
#11
As a college and career counselor, I quickly learned that big schools like Illinois know the variations across states. For non-athletes, they look at the GPA and are looking for a student with consistent high effort and achievement, preferably who was also involved in the school community (clubs, sports, etc.) and/or a job or something similar. I went to a workshop at Illinois specifically where they took us through the application evaluation process so we could better help our students. The admissions counselors understand that a student coming from inner city Baltimore won't have the same opportunity to take AP classes, etc. as a student in Batavia. They take that into consideration. It isn't a perfect system, but they do what they can to account for inequalities and are constantly adjusting it. That's where regional reps come into play since they report back to admissions about what's available where; they're also the ones who call out the students in privileged districts who attempt to pad their GPA with BS classes.

As for athletes, we all know that comes down to who coach wants and if they pass the NCAA Clearinghouse more than anything else.

EDIT: ACT/SAT aren't seen as the equalizer they used to be. They're important and show potential (or lack of effort when a student has an outstanding SAT/ACT but a mediocre GPA), but given the inequalities in public education depending on the socioeconomic status of the community, schools are realizing that students in poorer districts are at a disadvantage there and are taking that into consideration as well. That's not just Illinois, that's across the board.
I love what you posted here! Thanks!! Still, one must remember that not all high school counselors are created equal.
 
#12
As a college and career counselor, I quickly learned that big schools like Illinois know the variations across states. For non-athletes, they look at the GPA and are looking for a student with consistent high effort and achievement, preferably who was also involved in the school community (clubs, sports, etc.) and/or a job or something similar. I went to a workshop at Illinois specifically where they took us through the application evaluation process so we could better help our students. The admissions counselors understand that a student coming from inner city Baltimore won't have the same opportunity to take AP classes, etc. as a student in Batavia. They take that into consideration. It isn't a perfect system, but they do what they can to account for inequalities and are constantly adjusting it. That's where regional reps come into play since they report back to admissions about what's available where; they're also the ones who call out the students in privileged districts who attempt to pad their GPA with BS classes.

As for athletes, we all know that comes down to who coach wants and if they pass the NCAA Clearinghouse more than anything else.

EDIT: ACT/SAT aren't seen as the equalizer they used to be. They're important and show potential (or lack of effort when a student has an outstanding SAT/ACT but a mediocre GPA), but given the inequalities in public education depending on the socioeconomic status of the community, schools are realizing that students in poorer districts are at a disadvantage there and are taking that into consideration as well. That's not just Illinois, that's across the board.
Good stuff. To add a bit more to this, all athletes need the same number of credits in the core areas. So your Baltimore kid getting his english and math credits etc is no different than your Batavia kid getting English and math credit, provided the courses are at grade level and not below (which is more related to special education, and special education kids can be anywhere).
 
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#13
Urbana, IL
Test scores are worth something (a lot) in admission decisions. But Craig is saying that they aren't a great indicator of future performance, i.e. once the student is on campus.
Being pushed by parents to study hard and prepare for tests is one thing. Being out on your own and having the drive and discipline to do it yourself is another.
 
#15
Chicago, IL
I love what you posted here! Thanks!! Still, one must remember that not all high school counselors are created equal.
I try to be one of the good ones. I think we've gotten better about meeting students and families where they're at than counselors did when I was in high school. We were just expected to do things with very little guidance. Every counseling department I've been in has made it a point to push into classrooms at all grade levels and make connections. We can't always get through to everyone, but we do try. 😊
 
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#16
The A
I scored over 30 on my ACT and the counselor told me told me community college would probably be best for me. I was floored at first and later thought it was a prank because one of my parents had taught at this high school for 20 years. Somehow they didn't know who I was and had me confused with another student.
 
#18
Not just HS either back in the day. I saw an academic advisor at UIUC a grand total of ONE time.
At the time at UIUC, our advisor was one of several faculty members serving in the role who had questionable familiarity with each student. We were required to meet them once per year, I believe. For the most part I didn't get a lot of useful information from them, especially early in my time there where everything in the curriculum was standardized. I did get some good advice on graduate school from them, though.
 
#19
Being pushed by parents to study hard and prepare for tests is one thing. Being out on your own and having the drive and discipline to do it yourself is another.
an interesting flip side to this is kids from poorer families where parents had to work a lot and weren’t as present are probably more likely to be able to handle themself because they’ve been doing it for a while.

I scored over 30 on my ACT and the counselor told me told me community college would probably be best for me. I was floored at first and later thought it was a prank because one of my parents had taught at this high school for 20 years. Somehow they didn't know who I was and had me confused with another student.
I have something hilariously similar. I had already confirmed my future attendance and had my tuition scholarship set up, when I was called to the office by my counselor to make sure I apply to the local community college.

My name was right outside her office on the poster board of kids going to illinois. There were literally only 4 of us my class who got in.
 
#20
My daughter will be applying to be a freshman at colleges in the next few months. Many, many - I’d say most - colleges are dropping the ACT/SAT requirements for admission for her class (Fall ‘21) due to COVID making it far more difficult for kids to prep and test.

The trend in general for the past few years has been to drop or deemphasize testing requirements. Our high school’s college advisor has pointed out a website showing test optional schools.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/test-optional-colleges-list

This is the trend and the NCAA should follow it.
 
#21
Forgottonia
If the trend is against standardized testing of any type, as it seems to be, what is the measurement? I mean I get the problems with the tests, but what is going to take its place that can quantify and qualify a students skills and abilities accurately? The Rick Singer’s (Lori Loughlin) of the world need to know who they will be paying off.
 
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#22
If the trend is against standardized testing of any type, as it seems to be, what is the measurement? I mean I get the problems with the tests, but what is going to take its place that can quantify and qualify a students skills and abilities accurately? The Rick Singer’s (Lori Loughlin) of the world need to know who they will be paying off.
Grades, class ranks, classes taken, recommendations from teachers and others, activities outside of school, essays... It’s going to be a more wholistic approach.
 
#23
Grades, class ranks, classes taken, recommendations from teachers and others, activities outside of school, essays... It’s going to be a more wholistic approach.
Those things are already being used at many schools along with test scores. If you eliminate any of them you are making the process less wholistic, not more.
 
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#24
I scored over 30 on my ACT and the counselor told me told me community college would probably be best for me. I was floored at first and later thought it was a prank because one of my parents had taught at this high school for 20 years. Somehow they didn't know who I was and had me confused with another student.
Did you get that 30 on your ACT in Detroit??
 
#25
Grades, class ranks, classes taken, recommendations from teachers and others, activities outside of school, essays... It’s going to be a more wholistic approach.
Personally I'm a fan of "are growth plates still open", wingspan and height with shoes on.