NCAA Issues/Scandals/Corruption

#27
That would be an odd position for California to take considering that the only relevant school is UCLA, which has not been implicated and honestly hasn't been much of a blue blood in recent years.
It is not so much that I think California wants to accomplish this, but it is the people in the media and elsewhere that have been seriously pushing this idea since the inception of the FBI investigation.
 
#28
Madison, WI
It is not so much that I think California wants to accomplish this, but it is the people in the media and elsewhere that have been seriously pushing this idea since the inception of the FBI investigation.
I think some people’s point has been something to the effect of this: Just make some of these payments legal and above board (ie reported) because these payments are happening either way. And this is just money for likenesses. I don’t think the California laws are necessarily helping shoe companies and AAU teams to funnel money. I could be completely misinterpreting everything
 
#29
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
ALL P-5 conferences together would have the clout and the time to do this...good idea for the NCAA to "have" to fold if that were the case. However, the conference powers that be would all have to agree as a unit to possibly forego billions to take this stance? Not sure you could get that many blow hards to agree on anything?
Why would they have to forego billions? If the P5 conferences all said "we are going to allow players to profit off of their name and likeness," and the NCAA said "see ya!," do you really think that the P5s would be the losers there? The P5s would take the product that the NCAA sells along with them. The NCAA would lose everything. They'd be a glorified NAIA at that point. The P5s would be fine.
 
#30
Suppose this “pay for play” stuff comes to fruition. A few questions: What happens to the internal team dynamics when players are not paid equally? Will free agency evolve? Trades?

What’s next?
 
#32
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
Suppose this “pay for play” stuff comes to fruition. A few questions: What happens to the internal team dynamics when players are not paid equally? Will free agency evolve? Trades?

What’s next?
Do NBA teams fall apart when players aren't all paid equally? NFL? MLB? NHL? MLS? Premier League? PGA?
 
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#33
Do NBA teams fall apart when players aren't all paid equally? NFL? MLB? NHL? MLS? Premier League? PGA?
Well, in the case of the NBA it’s the teams that are setting and making the payments. I guess the proposed college scenario would be similar to all the “extra” stuff pros make through endorsements, etc. I’m not arguing pro or con ... just suggesting that this pay for play road may have a few twists and turns, bumps, etc. (and that there may be more than pay at stake)
 
#34
Well, in the case of the NBA it’s the teams that are setting and making the payments. I guess the proposed college scenario would be similar to all the “extra” stuff pros make through endorsements, etc. I’m not arguing pro or con ... just suggesting that this pay for play road may have a few twists and turns, bumps, etc. (and that there may be more than pay at stake)
There will be lots of unintended consequences, and I don't think it's that hard to see many of them. It will be a pay system without any governance. All the major team sports have some sort of salary cap or luxury tax to keep things at least somewhat in check. There would be no way to do that here.

The simple case is EA Sports paying players for a college video game, in which case the payments are pretty even across the various players and teams (at least the top ones). But what if someone like Khan says, "Hey Ayo, I'll give you 50k to put your picture on a billboard on I-57"? That's all good under the new law, correct?

We've already seen the deep pockets influencing football and basketball by building ever better facilities and inflating coaching salaries. What will happen when they can directly impact talent acquisition? Which aspect correlates more closely with winning: facilities, coaching, or talent? If I'm super rich, my money is going towards talent.
 
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#35
Illinois bill interoduced to do the same!
Well played Caly!
NCAA was too corrupt to level the playing field so so
someone else had to do it.
 
#36
Do NBA teams fall apart when players aren't all paid equally? NFL? MLB? NHL? MLS? Premier League? PGA?
All those organizations have a draft process to somewhat level the field (except the PGA, which isn’t composed of teams).
 
#37
Michigan
NCAA was too corrupt to level the playing field so so
someone else had to do it.
That's my sense of it. The NCAA brass, the conference brass, ADs and other top positions, and obviously the coaching staffs are all making huge amounts from drastically suppressing the earnings of the top players. This has resulted in a black market that's become so obvious that scandals barely register anymore. Why have such a corrupt system? The NCAA and folks who created it aren't capable of fixing it any more than the investment bankers "fixed" the over-leveraged economy when they crashed it. When a group creates a problem because they're greedy, having them fix it is a terrible idea.

No idea how this will play out, and it will certainly be a big change for college bball to absorb. IMHO it's better than leaving it as it is, which ain't sayin much. NCAA needs to change...no wait, burn it to the ground and build something new.
 
#38
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
All those organizations have a draft process to somewhat level the field (except the PGA, which isn’t composed of teams).
While true, this again assumes that nothing else happens in this saga. If more states follow suit (e.g. Illinois just did) and the NCAA is forced into action, they will play ball in letting it happen and then likely enact their own new set of regulations with varying degrees of teeth and enforceability. It may be a bumpy ride, but the system right now is so unbelievably broken that something like this needs to happen. At the very least, I'd rather have a messy system that favors the Davids that actually produce the value than the current one that favors the Goliaths. I am sure it will not be 100% bulletproof in its first iteration.
 
#39
I am sure it will not be 100% bulletproof in its first iteration.
This. They really need to be in a state of constant evaluation and reworking to make this effective. Don't lock yourself in to a 5-year situation that you then cant' fix because you made a stupid decision (see: BCS).
 
#40
I don't know if this has been posted....... Kansas has the NCAA giving them the stink eye! Anyone know anything more? ;)
 
#41
There will be lots of unintended consequences, and I don't think it's that hard to see many of them. It will be a pay system without any governance. All the major team sports have some sort of salary cap or luxury tax to keep things at least somewhat in check. There would be no way to do that here.

The simple case is EA Sports paying players for a college video game, in which case the payments are pretty even across the various players and teams (at least the top ones). But what if someone like Khan says, "Hey Ayo, I'll give you 50k to put your picture on a billboard on I-57"? That's all good under the new law, correct?

We've already seen the deep pockets influencing football and basketball by building ever better facilities and inflating coaching salaries. What will happen when they can directly impact talent acquisition? Which aspect correlates more closely with winning: facilities, coaching, or talent? If I'm super rich, my money is going towards talent.
When do they no longer have to go to class? When do the coaches get their salaries cut to offset revenue loss?
 
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#42
When do they no longer have to go to class? When do the coaches get their salaries cut to offset revenue loss?
Well some players are not going to class now...And I am fine with coaches not making millions of dollars
 
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#43
Stylin' and Profilin'
Boosters waving Gs around for a billboard will still have to compete with other schools' boosters waving Gs around for a billboard, and we're back to favorites. There aren't 347 MDAAs every year to go around, and guess I don't see any reason to expect any more of a 'level playing field'. Programs like Duke, Kansas, NC, Kentucky have to be licking their chops at this, because they already control the business relationships with the deepest pockets.
 
#44
Forgottonia
Boosters waving Gs around for a billboard will still have to compete with other schools' boosters waving Gs around for a billboard, and we're back to favorites. There aren't 347 MDAAs every year to go around, and guess I don't see any reason to expect any more of a 'level playing field'. Programs like Duke, Kansas, NC, Kentucky have to be licking their chops at this, because they already control the business relationships with the deepest pockets.
Kinda how I feel. Teams with a national brand would have more to offer in the way of endorsements.

On the other hand, if a kid wanted to stay home, maybe we are a bit more competitive with the $$ than we have been in the past?
 
#45
There will be lots of unintended consequences, and I don't think it's that hard to see many of them. It will be a pay system without any governance. All the major team sports have some sort of salary cap or luxury tax to keep things at least somewhat in check. There would be no way to do that here.

The simple case is EA Sports paying players for a college video game, in which case the payments are pretty even across the various players and teams (at least the top ones). But what if someone like Khan says, "Hey Ayo, I'll give you 50k to put your picture on a billboard on I-57"? That's all good under the new law, correct?

We've already seen the deep pockets influencing football and basketball by building ever better facilities and inflating coaching salaries. What will happen when they can directly impact talent acquisition? Which aspect correlates more closely with winning: facilities, coaching, or talent? If I'm super rich, my money is going towards talent.
I haven't read the law, but there may be a provision requiring an arms length tranaction and prohibiting boosters from being involved. This is just supposition on my part though.
 
#46
I haven't read the law, but there may be a provision requiring an arms length tranaction and prohibiting boosters from being involved. This is just supposition on my part though.
Nothing quite like that. There is a clause that a student's contract for Name Image Likeness may not conflict with a Team's contract, BUT a team's contract may not limit a players ability to enter a contract for NIL.

Also, the law makes it illegal for the NCAA to make students or teams ineligible. I'll resend my post from the other thread, but the law is pretty clear. The way I understand it is the NCAA can either not operate in CA at all (which would include TV rights deals), or must allow players to profit from NIL without penalty to team or student.

Edit: I wonder if the "a school cannot provide compensation to a student for NIL would include boosters"
 
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#47
I previously posted this in the recruiting thread of all places...

My own acronyms for brevity:
NIL = student's name, image, likeness
NCAA = An athletic association, conference, or other group or organization with authority over intercollegiate athletics, including, but not limited to, the National Collegiate Athletic Association
School = postsecondary educational institution, meaning any campus of the University of California or the California State University, an independent institution of higher education, as defined in Section 66010, or a private postsecondary educational institution, as defined in Section 94858
Rule = rule, requirement, standard, or other limitation

1. A school cannot uphold any rule that prevents a student from earning compensation as a result of the use of NIL. Earning compensation from NIL shall not affect the students eligibility.

2. The NCAA shall not prevent a student at a school from earning compensation for NIL.

3. The NCAA shall not prevent a school from participating in intercollegiate athletics as a result of a student earning compensation for NIL.

4. A school cannot provide compensation to a student for NIL.

5. Schools and the NCAA cannot prohibit a student from hiring attorneys and agents.

6. Agents and lawyers hired by a student must be licensed by the state.

7. Agents representing students must comply with federal laws.

8. A scholarship provided by a school is not considered compensation. A scholarship shall not be revoked as a result of a student earning compensation for NIL.

9. A student cannot enter into a contract for NIL that conflicts with one of their teams' contracts. A student that enters a contract must disclose it to the school. The school must respond identifying any conflicts.

10. A team's contract shall not prevent a student from using their NIL for a commercial purpose when the student is not engaged in official team activities.

11. This becomes operative 1/1/2023
 
#48
I'm guessing the best prospects out of HS will be signing agents, and those agents will likely be involved in finding a school for the athletes to attend. I imagine some of these negotiated NIL contracts will be a factor.

Its a big departure from the current state, but I don't see anything wrong with that other than the fact that it's different.
 
#49
I'm guessing the best prospects out of HS will be signing agents, and those agents will likely be involved in finding a school for the athletes to attend. I imagine some of these negotiated NIL contracts will be a factor.

Its a big departure from the current state, but I don't see anything wrong with that other than the fact that it's different.
Thanks for all the concise info.

I agree that the best prospects will sign with agents before college. That should reduce the influence of street agents and AAU coaches, which should be a good thing.

The shoe companies should be able to do all of their business above board now, which I would think makes them happy. Not sure how that plays out, but maybe they spread the money out more evenly because they don't need to deal with back channels and a limited number of schools that would play ball with them previously? Or maybe they just want to have a few schools dominate so it's easier for them? Hard to say.

I do think the booster money to support specific schools will flow into new entities that are like Political Action Committees. I'm not a lawyer but I think that skirts rule 4 effectively. Let's call those Player Acquisition Committees. The agents would work with the shoe companies and PACs to get the best deals for the kids. There's probably still a relationship-building role for the coaches, but I think that could be much less important than it is now - 'recruiting' will be mostly about dollars. Like I said before, if I'm a super rich booster my money would flow into the PAC rather than the athletic department, since I think talent is more important than coaching or facilities.

I guess it will be interesting to see what happens, but I think it will likely look and feel very different. It might even work out in our favor, since we have a large and relatively wealthy alumni base. I just have a feeling I'm going to be wishing for the good old days.
 
#50
Forgottonia
I previously posted this in the recruiting thread of all places...

My own acronyms for brevity:
NIL = student's name, image, likeness
NCAA = An athletic association, conference, or other group or organization with authority over intercollegiate athletics, including, but not limited to, the National Collegiate Athletic Association
School = postsecondary educational institution, meaning any campus of the University of California or the California State University, an independent institution of higher education, as defined in Section 66010, or a private postsecondary educational institution, as defined in Section 94858
Rule = rule, requirement, standard, or other limitation

1. A school cannot uphold any rule that prevents a student from earning compensation as a result of the use of NIL. Earning compensation from NIL shall not affect the students eligibility.

2. The NCAA shall not prevent a student at a school from earning compensation for NIL.

3. The NCAA shall not prevent a school from participating in intercollegiate athletics as a result of a student earning compensation for NIL.

4. A school cannot provide compensation to a student for NIL.

5. Schools and the NCAA cannot prohibit a student from hiring attorneys and agents.

6. Agents and lawyers hired by a student must be licensed by the state.

7. Agents representing students must comply with federal laws.

8. A scholarship provided by a school is not considered compensation. A scholarship shall not be revoked as a result of a student earning compensation for NIL.

9. A student cannot enter into a contract for NIL that conflicts with one of their teams' contracts. A student that enters a contract must disclose it to the school. The school must respond identifying any conflicts.

10. A team's contract shall not prevent a student from using their NIL for a commercial purpose when the student is not engaged in official team activities.

11. This becomes operative 1/1/2023
Great information. Thanks for sharing it. There are a number of things that just don’t seem like they would hold up to me, but I’m not a lawyer and I assume people who wrote the bill are.

How do they justify that the schools can use NIL without any compensation and specifically state that a scholarship is not compensation? Seems like that would be hard defend in court.

If a student is a legal resident of another state, I’m not sure how they can require the student to hire only agents and lawyers licensed in California.