OTL Report on Michigan State

#52      

Deleted member 19448

D
Guest
Would seem Dantonio is in some serious trouble. One might think of Izzo had spent more time monitoring his own program instead of pontificating on Illinois’ handling of Bruce Weber’s termination he might be seen in a better light. Just another example of how corrupt the big time sports programs can be. Not all of them are but the money involved nowadays creates an environment where protecting the brand is more important than doing the right thing be it following ncaa rules enforcing academic standards or serious matters like sexual abuse. Also a report came out that apparently Emmert at the ncaa was tipped off about some of these issues back in 2010.


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#53      

Deleted member 19448

D
Guest
Everything is viewed in a different light now. The pr optics on that kind of stuff looks awful now


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#56      

ILLINIWEK86

Dick Vitale walks into a bar..
Fisher
Adreian Payne has reportedly been waived by the Orlando Magic.
 
#58      
Personally, I don't think the NCAA has any real business in this matter, just like I didn't feel like they did in the PSU matter. This isn't a matter of cheating in competition or academic fraud; this is a potential criminal matter. Let the justice system handle it like they should. It is outside of the NCAA's mandate.

I can't stand the NCAA for a lot of reasons, but this isn't one of them.

I think I disagree. If the NCAA does nothing, the schools have motivation for cover ups. If investigated criminally, the burden of proof is much higher and folks think "it can't happen to me." The NCAA needs to remove the motivation to lie and destroy kid's lives. If found guilty the programs should be punished into non-existence. You have to make the downside risk intolerable. Saying the NCAA has no business enforcing is exactly why the MSU's will continue to do this after Penn St. We're not talking about the NCAA punishing individuals. We're talking about the NCAA punishing programs. It's what they SHOULD do.
 
#59      
The case against Izzo bears a lot of resemblance to the case against Brad Underwood after one of his former OSU assistants was indicted. Guilt by association, combined with the possibility that there could be more lurking in the background, but no direct evidence linking anyone to anything. Dantonio strikes me as a different case.

You have to be kidding or misinformed, no resemblance to BU issue. Izzo knew about his players and asst coach and deferred or denied discipline. You did see Tejon riding the pine recently for team violations right.
 
#60      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...wn-rumors-im-definitely-not-retiring/?src=rss






Michigan State coach Tom Izzo said Friday night that he has no plans to retire. He said so rather matter-of-factly following his team's 76-61 home win over Wisconsin,

"I'm not going anywhere, in my mind," he said. "I'm definitely not retiring. There's a lot of things that happened today that are part of life. I'm going to worry about my team, I'm going to worry about the survivors, and I'm going to worry about what I'm going to do."

comments to the article......
Dead man walking.

Izzo is gone. It's just a matter of when and how much his agent can get out of MSU as a "settlement." And if he doesn't hurry, they will fire him and he won't get a penny more out of MSU.

Since he got paid for covering up sexual assaults, maybe he should find work for organized crime as a "fixer."


Izzo needs to take Lupe and move to Boca. He can coach a shuffleboard team.
 
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#61      

ChazzReinhold

Mom! The Meatloaf!
The case against Izzo bears a lot of resemblance to the case against Brad Underwood after one of his former OSU assistants was indicted. Guilt by association, combined with the possibility that there could be more lurking in the background, but no direct evidence linking anyone to anything. Dantonio strikes me as a different case.

You have to be kidding or misinformed, no resemblance to BU issue. Izzo knew about his players and asst coach and deferred or denied discipline. You did see Tejon riding the pine recently for team violations right.

Exactly. The agent said in the recorded tape that the head coaches make too much money so they don't get them involved.
 
#62      
Just saw segments of OTL. Izzo and Dantonio both failed to act and allowed a culture sexual abuse. Dantonio is gone and I'm not sure there isn't an indictment in his future. Refer to PSU case.

I don't think Izzo should coach another game. Immediate suspension with termination following further investigation. Behavior on par with the former Louisville head coach.
 
#63      
I think I disagree. If the NCAA does nothing, the schools have motivation for cover ups. If investigated criminally, the burden of proof is much higher and folks think "it can't happen to me." The NCAA needs to remove the motivation to lie and destroy kid's lives. If found guilty the programs should be punished into non-existence. You have to make the downside risk intolerable. Saying the NCAA has no business enforcing is exactly why the MSU's will continue to do this after Penn St. We're not talking about the NCAA punishing individuals. We're talking about the NCAA punishing programs. It's what they SHOULD do.

That is, of course, unless the program is North Carolina.
 
#64      
Disgusting. Izzo and Dantonio done.

I think MSU is in a very deserving !@#$ storm. And like Penn State, the administration has been grossly negligent, at a minimum, and quite possibly worse. Heads have already rolled and will continue to roll. What happened to those victims should never have happened, because there were people who were entrusted with roles that allowed it to happen. You can't possibly get to this number of victims without a horrific failure at multiple levels, or a downright cover up.

One of the the important things both for the victims here, and others elsewhere, is to fix this mess, and serve as a warning to help others.

All that said, I am unwilling to jump to conclusions about Izzo's and Dantonio's roles in this, until I see actual evidence (direct or circumstantial) of wrong-doing.

There's a very real problem with collegiate athletics, and EVERY athletics program has it, but it's vastly worse in revenue sports. I would summarize it this way:

There's so much money, that the programs have an arsenal of advocates, compliance, PR, and marketing people, all working against victims to minimize, deflect, obfuscate, and even cover up wrong-doing.

The people involved often lack the courage or ethical back-bone to stop this crap because they're aligned, both professionally and economically, with the program.

That's why you need strong controls, period. And the allegedly responsible people up the chain forgot or ignored this, I'm sure for their benefit.

Find the guilty, and remind them with the hammer they've earned. The victims deserve at least some measure of justice. But at the same time, guilt by association is not justice. I hope they do a thorough investigation, and shine the light of day on what happened. Once they do that, I hope heads roll, and it's a reminder to every organization out there which is entrusted with youth, to take that responsibility seriously, and not just exploit them.

[rant over, for now]
 
#65      

the national

the Front Range
I think MSU is in a very deserving !@#$ storm. And like Penn State, the administration has been grossly negligent, at a minimum, and quite possibly worse. Heads have already rolled and will continue to roll. What happened to those victims should never have happened, because there were people who were entrusted with roles that allowed it to happen. You can't possibly get to this number of victims without a horrific failure at multiple levels, or a downright cover up.

One of the the important things both for the victims here, and others elsewhere, is to fix this mess, and serve as a warning to help others.

All that said, I am unwilling to jump to conclusions about Izzo's and Dantonio's roles in this, until I see actual evidence (direct or circumstantial) of wrong-doing.

There's a very real problem with collegiate athletics, and EVERY athletics program has it, but it's vastly worse in revenue sports. I would summarize it this way:

There's so much money, that the programs have an arsenal of advocates, compliance, PR, and marketing people, all working against victims to minimize, deflect, obfuscate, and even cover up wrong-doing.

The people involved often lack the courage or ethical back-bone to stop this crap because they're aligned, both professionally and economically, with the program.

That's why you need strong controls, period. And the allegedly responsible people up the chain forgot or ignored this, I'm sure for their benefit.

Find the guilty, and remind them with the hammer they've earned. The victims deserve at least some measure of justice. But at the same time, guilt by association is not justice. I hope they do a thorough investigation, and shine the light of day on what happened. Once they do that, I hope heads roll, and it's a reminder to every organization out there which is entrusted with youth, to take that responsibility seriously, and not just exploit them.

[rant over, for now]

I agree with everything you said. Its a complicated and awful situation on alot of levels but there has to be stronger controls.
 
#67      
So does this fall under the claim that Illinois basketball kills off anyone that beat us? Northwestern and Maryland guys got hurt. Minnesota scandal broke. Now MSU. It's not a good idea to beat Illinois basketball. Bad things will happen to you.

Funny, well played.
 
#68      
I have no delusions about nothing scummy ever happening at Illinois, but considering Darius Paul was kicked off the team for various alcohol-related incidents, and Kendrick Nunn was kicked off the team for domestic battery, and the entire football program was nuked from orbit due to Beckman’s misconduct, plus Mike Thomas getting the boot for all of the above plus the issues with softball and women’s basketball, I would guess Illinois hasn’t had the degree of institutional scum that MSU has.

Our players and coaches have certainly done bad things. It doesn’t look like Illinois covers it up.

It creates a real problem of the uneven playing field. Every college sports fan knows it’s there, even if they can’t articulate why it’s there. Certain schools and programs will always be better than others because they get to play by a different set of rules. John Groce would probably still be here if the institution would have just covered up what Paul and Nunn did.

How do you cover up an arrest and prosecution by the State's Attorney?
 
#70      
In my opinion, you either make a bona fide attempt to effectively police and clean up college sports or you don’t. If nothing else, the North Carolina episode illustrated that. For obvious reasons, individuals schools can’t effectively do so (lack of any outside authority, recruiting and competitive disadvantage, lack of sufficient funds, etc.); neither can conferences. Nor can state and federal prosecutors and regulators, for they already have full plates and it will be the relatively rare case which will attract the attention of such offices and justify any type of criminal or regulatory proceeding.

So, is it to be business as usual (with a virtual tacit admission of such) or . . . ?
 
#71      
I recall sometime back an article that listed the cleanest coaches in NCAA BB.
Wasn’t Izzo ranked pretty high?
U of M was #1 I believe.
 
#72      
MSU is a massive amount of hurt. All those woman that were abused are going to be suing MSU. I suspect MSU will first discipline itself and then hopefully NCAA will also punish them as well.
 
#73      
What farcical characters they are. I liked Izzo until he looks like he aged `100 years overnight and all those great barbques hefting victory mugs comes down to, if any of my athletes !!!! up cover up as much as you can. I truly believe every coach gets away with as much as he can then says he knows nothing and somebody else take over...and they do til they're so pompous they go down. This thing at Michigan St is horribly wrong.
 
#74      

sbillini

st petersburg, fl
I recall sometime back an article that listed the cleanest coaches in NCAA BB.
Wasn’t Izzo ranked pretty high?
U of M was #1 I believe.

Tied with the one and only Bruce Weber.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...high-major-coaches-who-dont-break-ncaa-rules/

This is a really sad situation and shouldn't happen. It's a bit of a fine line, because in some of these cases, it turns out to be a quarrel of some type and accusations are later pulled. It's hard to say when you punish a party (e.g. suspend) based on an accusation that hasn't yet been substantiated/investigated. You do it too early and it could affect a players career which, eventually turns out to be nothing. You do it too late, and it looks like impropriety.

But that's where institutional procedures become paramount, and it seems MSU severely lacked this in these situations (along with PSU, Baylor, etc.). You need to immediately hand the complaints over to an objective (or at least as objective as possible) party that has authority to do the investigation that it deems necessary. I don't think you necessarily make it public right away, but do so as soon as there's substantiation of the complaint. And you make sure that the coaches/DIA have no say as to how it proceeds. Then, on top of that and more importantly, you need a drastic culture change in these programs where athletes know, unequivocally, that they will be treated no different than any other student in these types of cases, and likely even a higher standard given the public nature of their roles. The coach should be able to truthfully say "if you get into a situation like this, I can't help you - because I have no control over what happens."

After that, let the dominoes fall as they may. I would like to think we at UofI have better controls than MSU - and we have some data points that show that (e.g. the Tate and Nunn cases - particularly Tate where things where accusations were later recanted. But I'm not naive enough to say that for sure.
 
#75      
I think it helps that our AD is an attorney and sharp. Unlike the assclown at MSU. Hollis derailed his career and is going to take down Dantonio and possibly Izzo.