Penn State 72, Illinois 56 POSTGAME

I can not tell you how much I hate looking at this: 11 - 20
This needs to be buried somewhere, for good!
That second number is sure to go to 21. Let's hope that the first number goes up first.
It took us more than 100 years to reach 20 losses. 21 might stand for 500.
 
I gave my humble opinion on DW, not throwing him under the bus...He did that himself by his play...And yes, i do have a mediocre knowledge of BB having played all 4 years in HS and being a lifelong Illini fan for over 60 years...

My opinion is my own and the comparison of DW to CF is fair...Replay some of the games and you will see DW running away from the ball instead of getting it and attacking the rim...seldom did DW do anything on O other than run that weave debacle....averaging 3 pts per game is not productive when you are giving up triple that on D and TO's...

I realize that DW might have a hurdle to overcome HRF's legacy but he ,IMHO , didn't warrant the mins he got...
I agreed with you in my previous response 91. Something is very wrong when the higher scorers/minute are left on the bench, and our
"superior" defense still allows 80 and 90 pts.

And a 5 am practice the day of the game is, what is going on??
 
There's more to offense than scoring points. There is a stat called Offensive Rating which takes into consideration things like points, assists, turnovers, and possessions used up. Here's the teams for this year, from http://www.barttorvik.com/#

Aaron Jordan 114.1
Tevian Jones 110.1
Da'Monte Williams 105.1
Trent Frazier 104.5
Andres Feliz 103.7
Ayo Dosunmu 103.5
Kipper Nichols 99
Giorgi Bezhanishvili 98.7
Alan Griffin 87.8
Samba Kane 87.3
Adonis De La Rosa 84.7
Tyler Underwood 68.4
Samson Oladimeji 65.2
Drew Cayce 40.8
Zach Griffith 22.9

When you take into consideration everything involved in an offense, Williams is one of our best offensive players. That is why he plays - because the coaching staff doesn't just look at points score and pretend that is the entire story.

The issue with Williams' game is his usage, the rate of possessions finished up by his actions. It is by far the lowest on the team. It is actually lower than noted blackhole Jalen Tate's was two years ago. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Williams is lower than Tate because Williams doesn't use up possessions turning the ball over while Tate's TO% was very high. Williams will often look to make the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the bucket. On one hand, that is selfless basketball and is good. On the other, if you have a shot you need to take the shot because a shot in hand is worth two in the bush.

Williams is a good offensive player who is not aggressive enough. He improved his 3 point shooting from last year and got a little more aggressive. I think that trend will continue. Coupled with his excellent defense, I think he will fill AJ's role and then some next year.
One simple question. How many games did we win because of those numbers, and playing those guys?

Those numbers could easilly be skewed simply because with different starting/playing guys, synergy might have been improved. Some players were never allowed to score due to lack of minutes, say zero minutes. Samba should have been playing, and being close to the bucket to stop those 52 pts in the paint. He is an excellent shot blocker who was never utilized.

Secondly, I would contend that we need to develop our recruits with some real playing time, not just practice time.
 
Let's face it, you can't win in the Big Ten playing 4 guards and a forward. Last in the league in rebounding and opponents' field goal percentage. So obvious. Play a bigger lineup. Recruit a bigger lineup. Get some size underneath.
I totally agree 82. Another consideration after your great suggestion is to keep those big guys down low to prevent layups, and away from the 3 pt line. With 4 guards we are also smaller, and thus a mismatch with opponents getting easy layups.
 
I have this argument with my wife, a teacher, all the time. I am not a teacher but, can have an opinion about how students learn and how schools are run. Doesn’t mean I know everything about it but, I can have an opinion. Feel the same about basketball. Likely never be a college basketball coach but, certainly can have a an opinion about it. Especially a team that I follow semi-religiously..
You can have an opinion, but you can also expect people to say you don't know Jack Krap.
 
I get amazed by players not getting any minutes when other players are not producing more than 3 ppg and 2 rpg....Knowing more than the coach is not my opinion and for you to insinuate thats what i am saying is weak , at best...This is a forum for exchanging thoughts and I will defend that right for anyone...In no way did i give my opinions about DW inferring I know more than anyone, much less the coach of the Illini....But , I have eyes and watching EVERY game this year I conclude that DW should not be starting and that AG and TJ should get more minutes...If you think otherwise, so be it, but don't characterize my opinion as that I know more than anyone else here....

As far as intangibles , I simply don't see anything that DW does that should keep AG and TJ on the bench in favor of him...AG is an agressive player that rebounds better, shoots better and blocks shots better...TJ is the same type player and we just witnessed a season of experience they could of had with probably a lot better numbers with comparable minutes to DW...

If anyone takes offense to my opinion , well sorry, but thats what I believe and at 67 years old I doubt I will change a lifelong trait of speaking my mind...

JMHO
I don’t disagree with anyone who defends DW or thinks he is not at the level he needs to be offensively. He definitely knows how to defend and has a high b-ball IQ. I share the feelings of those who expected him to be more of a scoring threat. The bad thing about last season is that 1) he was coming off a knee injury and it really took a while before he was confident physically. I don’t look at his freshmen year the same as I would with a healthy player coming in and getting pt commensurate with his talent 2) there was a cluster of guards - Alstork/Smith/Lucas/Jordan/Frazier all competing for minutes. It’s a shame Smith turned out to be a bust ( I say bust not because he doesn’t have a lot of talent or hasn’t or won’t improve but he got a lot of time and showed little for all the hype he came in with. We were and still are thin as far as wings are concerned and Jordan and DW are both undersized often guarding the 4 position. I was at UI during a time when freshmen didn’t get that much tick....even players that were much better than the ones we are expecting so much from right now. I expected this to be a painful year and expect next year to be better. We will definitely add much needed size. I just hope we add in another area of need - a couple of good wing players.
 
Sycamore, Illinois
I don’t disagree with anyone who defends DW or thinks he is not at the level he needs to be offensively. He definitely knows how to defend and has a high b-ball IQ. I share the feelings of those who expected him to be more of a scoring threat. The bad thing about last season is that 1) he was coming off a knee injury and it really took a while before he was confident physically. I don’t look at his freshmen year the same as I would with a healthy player coming in and getting pt commensurate with his talent 2) there was a cluster of guards - Alstork/Smith/Lucas/Jordan/Frazier all competing for minutes. It’s a shame Smith turned out to be a bust ( I say bust not because he doesn’t have a lot of talent or hasn’t or won’t improve but he got a lot of time and showed little for all the hype he came in with. We were and still are thin as far as wings are concerned and Jordan and DW are both undersized often guarding the 4 position. I was at UI during a time when freshmen didn’t get that much tick....even players that were much better than the ones we are expecting so much from right now. I expected this to be a painful year and expect next year to be better. We will definitely add much needed size. I just hope we add in another area of need - a couple of good wing players.
In regards to wings, that is what makes Jones’ lack of playing time confusing to me. I thought he could/would have been that wing. He showed what was possible in the Maryland game. But, we never seemed to commit to letting him develop.
 
You can have an opinion, but you can also expect people to say you don't know Jack Krap.

Fair enough.....We are All fans or we wouldn't be here expressing our opinions....My opinion about DW should not be taken as I don't support him, but , as a team we could have been better by utilizing him better as a role player, not a starter....some here have voiced their opinion that DW is timid in his play...He has the ability to be an average B1G player, but from what I observed this year AG and TJ had a lot more potential to be more productive AND more likely to stay the course...

It wouldn't surprise me to see AG or TJ to move on and I sincerely hope they don't....Why didn't either one get on the court the last game...If the team is as worn down as many speculate , a boost from either one would have helped tremendously.....

I'm just so bummed out by the season that I'm tripping out, but my love for the Illini program will never waver ...
 
Likes: greyghost70
Winged Warrior
It's so amusing to watch fans speculate and comment on players' minutes when they have absolutely zero access to what's going on in practices and the locker room. I have seen, read, and heard enough that I have complete confidence and trust in BU to lead this program. He is doing the right things for these kids individually, and as a team. If anyone leaves, I believe it will be for the right reasons, even if it sucks. I don't believe there will be a mass exodus.
The recruiting is working.

Correcting 10 years of flip flopping around is not undone in two years.
 
I agreed with you in my previous response 91. Something is very wrong when the higher scorers/minute are left on the bench, and our
"superior" defense still allows 80 and 90 pts.

And a 5 am practice the day of the game is, what is going on??
I believe that we had another recent morning game (might've even been Penn State at home) that BU decided not to practice and give them a rest. We came out extremely flat, and after the game Underwood said that he was never going to skip a pre-game warmup again. So there's your answer.
 
It's so amusing to watch fans speculate and comment on players' minutes when they have absolutely zero access to what's going on in practices and the locker room. I have seen, read, and heard enough that I have complete confidence and trust in BU to lead this program. He is doing the right things for these kids individually, and as a team. If anyone leaves, I believe it will be for the right reasons, even if it sucks. I don't believe there will be a mass exodus.
The recruiting is working.

Correcting 10 years of flip flopping around is not undone in two years.
It's also amusing to watch fans speculate the opposite thing with equal knowledge of behind the scenes. There are plenty of 2-year turnarounds one could cite, Illinois isn't in some special pit of mediocrity.
 
Winged Warrior
It's also amusing to watch fans speculate the opposite thing with equal knowledge of behind the scenes. There are plenty of 2-year turnarounds one could cite, Illinois isn't in some special pit of mediocrity.
Yes, but the difference is trust in the leadership and direction. I'm not speculating on why certain players don't play in certain games. I don't have an issue if BU decides TJ, SK, or AG don't get the minutes that some think should just be automatic because we are struggling. It's his boat. Some are gonna row sometimes, and some are gonna swab the deck.

Those that are speculating and worrying over these players' minutes don't have the trust yet. My assertion is that with all of the comments from players and the significant wins during our little streak, I have enough to satisfy my belief in what BU is doing. So I'm not actually speculating the opposite.
 
One simple question. How many games did we win because of those numbers, and playing those guys?

Those numbers could easilly be skewed simply because with different starting/playing guys, synergy might have been improved. Some players were never allowed to score due to lack of minutes, say zero minutes. Samba should have been playing, and being close to the bucket to stop those 52 pts in the paint. He is an excellent shot blocker who was never utilized.

Secondly, I would contend that we need to develop our recruits with some real playing time, not just practice time.
These numbers are offense only, not sure why you are talking about Samba and defense. If you don't want to trust stats, that's fine. But don't act like back of napkin stats like "points/min" can't be skewed as well.

Williams is a sophomore, an underclassman, he needs to be developed as well.
 
Frankly, I think Kipper is demoralized by the coach. His career can be made or broken by a coach, and I see Kipper as losing out on what could have been a really nice year, and European team play, or better.
Yep, it's always someone else's fault, that's the slogan of today's times. No individual responsibility. I played so bad because of the coach. Sheesh...
 
Likes: CoalCity