Penn State 74, Illinois 52 POSTGAME

[illinifaninwi]

Alstork shot fine at Wright State (~38% from 3), but now is struggling to hit 25% from three. The hoop didn't change, but his coaching did.

AJ has people in his jock the moment he steps on the court, but we can't run a set play to get him an open look.

Finke shot fine the past two years, but now is struggling. One thing changed.

If only there was someone who was paid to help freshman like Smith and Damonte transfer to the college game...

Low talent level? Black was a top 45 recruit, Smith was top 100, and AJ/Frazier/Williams were near top 100. Plus, two top 100 guys transferred and a 5* decommitted when Underwood came on. The roster when Underwood signed had talent. If the talent is not there now, who do you blame?

Underwood already has more 20 point losses than Self, close to Weber (3). It would be one thing if they were to significantly better teams (Purdue, MSU), but they are to Wisconsin and Penn State, two teams that are not "out talenting" us by any means.

Illinios noticeably has trouble in-bounding the ball, a fundamental play that most Junior High teams have one fallback that they know they can execute and get the ball in play. Illinois suffers from long stretches of not scoring a damn point. How are there not set plays designed to stop that? What is our go to play to get Black a high percentage look or a guard a good driving lane for layup/foul chances? We don't have these simple plays.

I accept there will be growing pains with a new coach. I expected this team to be on the bubble, even after the transfers, but with an upward trend towards the end of the year. We are not seeing that. It is a coaching issue at this point.

John Groce recruited most of this team. The Illini couldn't inbound the ball the ball under Groce and that isn't going to get any better when you lack athletes with explosion and learning a completely different system. Leron Black is a below average athlete who is barely 6'6". He works his tail off but his production this season matches his potential. I couldn't disagree more with your post.

 

[bombayIllini]

Alstork shot fine at Wright State (~38% from 3), but now is struggling to hit 25% from three. The hoop didn't change, but his coaching did.

AJ has people in his jock the moment he steps on the court, but we can't run a set play to get him an open look.

Finke shot fine the past two years, but now is struggling. One thing changed.

If only there was someone who was paid to help freshman like Smith and Damonte transfer to the college game...

Low talent level? Black was a top 45 recruit, Smith was top 100, and AJ/Frazier/Williams were near top 100. Plus, two top 100 guys transferred and a 5* decommitted when Underwood came on. The roster when Underwood signed had talent. If the talent is not there now, who do you blame?

Underwood already has more 20 point losses than Self, close to Weber (3). It would be one thing if they were to significantly better teams (Purdue, MSU), but they are to Wisconsin and Penn State, two teams that are not "out talenting" us by any means.

Illinios noticeably has trouble in-bounding the ball, a fundamental play that most Junior High teams have one fallback that they know they can execute and get the ball in play. Illinois suffers from long stretches of not scoring a damn point. How are there not set plays designed to stop that? What is our go to play to get Black a high percentage look or a guard a good driving lane for layup/foul chances? We don't have these simple plays.

I accept there will be growing pains with a new coach. I expected this team to be on the bubble, even after the transfers, but with an upward trend towards the end of the year. We are not seeing that. It is a coaching issue at this point.

There is a simpler stat: The team plays great for part of the game, then just vanishes. I think this is a more powerful stat than the ones you have provided. Simply because the very players you claim have under performed this year, actually have performed very, very well ................ but, in stretches.

May be we have one coach for the good stretches and a terrible one for the other.

No. I think it is a mind set of most players. Which is why they are inconsistent. IF it was coaching, then ALL of BU's teams would have under-performed AND so would have these kids across all games AND within each and every game.

 

[bombayIllini]

Consistency is 100% on the coaching staff. Making adjustments, having plays, etc. are all ways that a staff should be able to stop 10 minute long runs. The mindset of the players is a reflection of the coaching they receive.

OK, let us follow that logic for a sec.

"Consistency is 100% on the coaching staff". So, this team is "consistent" for - say for this discussion - 50% of the game. All the things the staff does works!!!

So, are you saying (I am trying to understand your arg here) that somehow the staff change all the plays, adjustments, etc, when the team is no longer consistent?

Also, if the mindset is a reflection of the staff, what went right at other places and wrong here at UoI? Again, just wondering - trying to understand.

 

[greger]

I haven't posted in a while but I have concerns. First of which is why isn't this team improving? This team has regressed as the year has gone on. That falls squarely on the coaching staffs shoulders. Certain players have lost confidence? Why? Again a coaching issue in my opinion. I like Underwood but this is getting concerning.

 

[Calvin]

My concern is that recruiting only gets more difficult as time goes on and losing becomes the norm.

...

I'm really, really worried about recruiting. And as such, I'm really, really worried about the future of this program.

+1

At the college level I'd say 75% of the game is recruiting. Weber looked amazing with a roster built by Self. On his own, not so much...

 

[wma500]

I know attendance appears to be down this year. But would guess the weather kept a few people away. Covered in mostly ice west of Springfield.

Just awful last night, all the way around. The basketball was awful yes, but in addition attendance is down and the overall atmosphere feels like stale bread. SFC is dead, this team has no life or passion and the season can't end soon enough.

 

[wma500]

Yes, 15 plus inches of snow in Northern IL. Not many people traveling around here. Especially on a Sunday night.

We made the trip no problem, roads were fine.

 

[ChiefIllini]

I haven't posted in a while but I have concerns. First of which is why isn't this team improving? This team has regressed as the year has gone on. That falls squarely on the coaching staffs shoulders. Certain players have lost confidence? Why? Again a coaching issue in my opinion. I like Underwood but this is getting concerning.

We lost a ton of heartbreakers early. Mentality is more important than a lot of people realize. We had chances to string together quality wins and fell short 80% of the time. Like a lot of others have said, sometimes, it looks like we are maybe a piece or two away from being a top 5 B1G team, and other it looks like we dont have a single D1 player on the roster. I choose to believe the former because of how this year has gone. Actually, its probably somewhere in the middle of the two, but this team is still better than their record shows. I dont think BU is the savior everybody thought he'd be, but I do think he was the best option we could've gotten.

Also, this game showed just how influential bigs are to the new age guard oriented game. When Watkins was out, we had oops open and successful drives. I think people need to take away that Finke is at least moderately important to this team, or I should say anybody as big as Finke is important. Obviously wasnt the only reasons we lost, but it was a major issue and extremely obvious.

 

[SescIllini]

Alstork shot fine at Wright State (~38% from 3), but now is struggling to hit 25% from three. The hoop didn't change, but his coaching did.

AJ has people in his jock the moment he steps on the court, but we can't run a set play to get him an open look.

Finke shot fine the past two years, but now is struggling. One thing changed.

If only there was someone who was paid to help freshman like Smith and Damonte transfer to the college game...

Low talent level? Black was a top 45 recruit, Smith was top 100, and AJ/Frazier/Williams were near top 100. Plus, two top 100 guys transferred and a 5* decommitted when Underwood came on. The roster when Underwood signed had talent. If the talent is not there now, who do you blame?

Underwood already has more 20 point losses than Self, close to Weber (3). It would be one thing if they were to significantly better teams (Purdue, MSU), but they are to Wisconsin and Penn State, two teams that are not "out talenting" us by any means.

Illinios noticeably has trouble in-bounding the ball, a fundamental play that most Junior High teams have one fallback that they know they can execute and get the ball in play. Illinois suffers from long stretches of not scoring a damn point. How are there not set plays designed to stop that? What is our go to play to get Black a high percentage look or a guard a good driving lane for layup/foul chances? We don't have these simple plays.

I accept there will be growing pains with a new coach. I expected this team to be on the bubble, even after the transfers, but with an upward trend towards the end of the year. We are not seeing that. It is a coaching issue at this point.

Self inherited a talented roster from a coach that went to the NBA. Weber recruited a talented roster from a coach that went to a Blue Blood program. BU inherited a team from a coach that was fired and now coaches at Akron. See the trend.


The players BU inherited had good rankings but many lacked 2-3 tools that make you successful at the college level. JCL was a good shooter but was a terrible defender and his ball skills just weren't there. DJ low motor and once again lacked the tools and work ethic. AJ is becoming a better all around player but still can't compete with most BIG players at the wing. Leron is very undersized and either needs to paired with a true big center type or be played more at the SF. Finke is inconsistent and his deficiencies on defense/rebounding would not be so glaring if we had the true center. I'm not concerned about our freshmen, they will be BIG players as they develop.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

+1

At the college level I'd say 75% of the game is recruiting. Weber looked amazing with a roster built by Self. On his own, not so much...

I'm a long, long way from giving up on Underwood. I think he's a really good coach, and can turn this around.

But recruiting is what gave me a moment of pause when we hired him. I was all aboard the Keatts train for that reason.

I guess we'll see if it all pays off.

 

[Illini_1979]

Not fun to watch, but I still think Coach Underwood is the right for the job. We are not big enough, talented enough or athletic enough. But in fairness, we have had glimpses into what could be and I liked it.

:thumb:

 

[Illini_1979]

https://youtu.be/7EChnZTJicw

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

 

[JFGsCoffeeMug]

I'm not going to disagree with the assessment. I'm just amazed that our basketball program has found a way to lack size, talent, athleticism, and heart - all at the same time.

Are we notably good at anything right now?

 

[GortTheRobot]

Self inherited a talented roster from a coach that went to the NBA. Weber recruited a talented roster from a coach that went to a Blue Blood program. BU inherited a team from a coach that was fired and now coaches at Akron. See the trend.


The players BU inherited had good rankings but many lacked 2-3 tools that make you successful at the college level. JCL was a good shooter but was a terrible defender and his ball skills just weren't there. DJ low motor and once again lacked the tools and work ethic. AJ is becoming a better all around player but still can't compete with most BIG players at the wing. Leron is very undersized and either needs to paired with a true big center type or be played more at the SF. Finke is inconsistent and his deficiencies on defense/rebounding would not be so glaring if we had the true center. I'm not concerned about our freshmen, they will be BIG players as they develop.

:thumb:

 

[helppitch]

I'm a long, long way from giving up on Underwood. I think he's a really good coach, and can turn this around.

But recruiting is what gave me a moment of pause when we hired him. I was all aboard the Keatts train for that reason.

I guess we'll see if it all pays off.

For those who have problems with Coach Underwood you should probably look to adopt another team. He's here for a long time. I'm sure he has a huge buyout & his contract is quite prohibitive for him to leave on his own.
Bottom line, he's here.
Alstork has a total (all FGA)38.9% FG % over his entire career, that hardly makes him a good, or even decent shooter. I'm surprised Finke is shooting so poorly this year. If we are going to blame the coaching staff for Alstork's
& Finke's poor shooting, then I guess they should get credit for Black & Jordan's improvement.

 

[haasi]

Underwood recruited 6 out of 11 of the current scholarship players. So your first point is factually wrong, but I get your point that a new coach is slightly bound by what he walks in to.

Let's break this down. Underwood came in in the spring and "recruited" Frazier, Smith, and Williams - all of whom Groce had recruited and two of whom had already committed. He got Smith to sign. Then, desperately needing bigs, he got us Eboigbodin and Vesel. Because we were so desperate for guard production with Hill and others leaving, he recruited Alstork to come in as a fifth year transfer.


On the whole, the six recruits he brought in were all some combination of (a) Groce recruits; (b) freshmen; and/or (c) desperation plays because of how bare the cupboard was -- some of which appear promising (Ebo) and some of which have been busts (Alstork). No one can argue that Underwood has disappointed this year, but to say that the roster is on him is a joke. The only thing you could blame him for is not keeping Tilmon (who would have been very useful) and losing JCL (and maybe DJW) to transfer. But transfers and decommits will happen when a new coach comes in. In any event, you can't credibly argue that the roster is on Underwood. You can argue that for the 2018 class and beyond - that's where the concerns are. If he doesn't get a nice class surrounding Ayo, we can start blaming him for roster makeup.

 

[helppitch]

I'm a long, long way from giving up on Underwood. I think he's a really good coach, and can turn this around.

But recruiting is what gave me a moment of pause when we hired him. I was all aboard the Keatts train for that reason.

I guess we'll see if it all pays off.

I wanted Holtmann & you wanted Keatts. We probably weren't in position to get either one.
This team, doesn't have size & can't shoot, those are two obstacles that are hard to overcome.
I do think a couple of our young players will become better shooters & I think Underwood will be a successful coach here.
I hate playing man to man on out of bounds plays under the basket, too easy for an offensive team to set a pick & get a guy free.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

For those who have problems with Coach Underwood you should probably look to adopt another team. He's here for a long time. I'm sure he has a huge buyout & his contract is quite prohibitive for him to leave on his own.
Bottom line, he's here.
Alstork has a total (all FGA)38.9% FG % over his entire career, that hardly makes him a good, or even decent shooter. I'm surprised Finke is shooting so poorly this year. If we are going to blame the coaching staff for Alstork's
& Finke's poor shooting, then I guess they should get credit for Black & Jordan's improvement.

Huh?

There is more than enough blame to go around -- to include on the coaching staff.

This dumpster fire is primarily a result of this roster being as weak as it is. But the coaches don't get a pass. The culture change evidently isn't taking shape. And frankly, we are getting worse as the season goes on.

So yes, there are some "problems" with Underwood and staff. That doesn't mean they're primarily at fault, and it doesn't mean they're doing a bad job. But it does mean that they're fair game at this point -- everybody else. And no, I'm not going to go find a new school to root for. But thanks for the offer.

And Jordan's improvement? He started off the season red hot, but in his last 8 games, he has scored 0, 0, 0, 4, 9, 6, 9, and 0 points. He's shooting less than 30% from three in that stretch. And he struggles mightily to find his own shot. So, not sure why you're using that as an example.

(by the way, you quoted me, but I never blamed the staff for Finke and Alstork's shooting)

 

[The Sprouting Divot]

As long as we're airing our various grievances, am I the only person who is unreasonably and exceedingly annoyed by the very demonstrative female Illini fan who has courtside seats in the lower-left (across from the Illinois bench) corner of the TV screen in our home games?

She is constantly standing up, pointing all over the place, barking commands at our players, squawking at our opponents, squatting like Urban Meyer, and seemingly trying to simultaneously coach and officiate the game at all times.

I blame her and her distracting antics for our poor performance this season.

 

[ChiefIllini]

I blame her and her distracting antics for our poor performance this season.

I've been annoyed by her. I too, nominate her as scapegoat for this team's performance.

 

[Spoon House]

...

That's a good rebuttal - I was going to call the quoted post out for being intentionally misleading. Underwood has not inherited a bare cupboard, but most of the products in the cupboard are spoiled and unfit for B1G consumption.

I really miss DJW's athleticism this season. =/

 

[Peoria Illini]

I think the main problem with this team is it's lack of mental toughness and basketball IQ, especially in pressure situations. I'll stick with Coach Underwood as he had success in his past and has received glowing reviews from about every coach that I've seen regarding his knowledge of the game, etc. Recruiting may be his weakness, but I think his staff should have the recruiting chops to be okay.

 

[dsg]

I've been annoyed by her. I too, nominate her as scapegoat for this team's performance.

Replying to @MarkTupper
That woman just got kicked out of State Farm Center after calling the ref by a four letter word that starts with f

5:19 PM - 11 Feb 2018


https://twitter.com/MarkTupper/status/962855486335807488

 

[TCTORNADO]

I'm surprised that with the 5-6 putrid losses recently that we haven't started to get the "chemistry" reports. Maybe that was what the 6:00 am meeting was about.

 

[Peoria Illini]

I don't disagree, but in context I was responding to the assertion that "Groce recruited most of the team". Which is just an objectively false statement.

We have 11 scholarship players and Groce recruited:

Finke
Black
Jordan
Nichols
Lucas
Frazier
Williams
(Smith)???

That's 7 of 11, or 8 of 11, if you think that Groce would have closed on Mark Smith. I would say, that's still most of the team. And not having a go to scorer, like he had in Malcolm the last three years, I would venture to say he would have had a tough time with scoring droughts this season as well.

Now he would have had Tilmon and possibly not Smith, but he was always slow on playing freshman anyways, so the production that Tilmon and Frazier would have contributed could be debated.