Pregame: Illinois vs Indiana, Saturday, November 11th, 11:00am CT, BTN

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#26      
People get do down and so critical of the coaches and players and while losing games is tough, I give Lovie a ton of credit for the way he's going about building his program.

He is putting his butt on the line with the kids he recruited. He is playing his guys, no matter how young. There's going to be no, well he's winning with the previous coaches players. He's truly BUILDING a program from the ground up and he's not going deviate from his plan. He knows that they are going to take a beating this year playing so many freshman. He's willing to invest in "his guys" now, with dividends paying off next year and the year after. He's also selling playing time as freshman to future recruits. You're not going to build a winning program and make it sustainable by peppering the lineup with a Juniors and seniors at the expense of the freshmen he's bringing in. You hope for a Cubs/Astros type rebuild where you take lumps early with playing young guys and watch them mature physically and mentally over the next three years. Then, bring in another crop of young talent to piggy back this group and so on. I wouldn't focus on wins and losses THIS year. The day of reckoning will come in two years when this current group of freshmen are Juniors and he's had two of his own classes behind them. I suspect you'll see a much better product. They won't fade in the second half from bring physically worn down and there will be a lot more chemistry, knowledge and experience to draw from. He's taking full ownership of his program with his guys, being coached by his staff and he'll live with the results, good or bad, in a couple of years. I commend him for that. It took a few years of bad program management to get us this point and it will take a few years to build up and get us out of the disaster previous regimes put us in.

I got two words to sell you:

Chip Kelly.
 
#29      
If these are the most talented players then you need better results. I don't see the automatic improvement most see due to players aging. The level of recruit is not improving. They are still basically 3 star recruits replacing 3 star recruits.

Can’t please everyone I guess
 
#30      
If these are the most talented players then you need better results. I don't see the automatic improvement most see due to players aging. The level of recruit is not improving. They are still basically 3 star recruits replacing 3 star recruits.
The difference is certainly not automatic. We don't now how these players will work out. We may develop these players for 3 years and still be getting blown out in B1G games. It's a real possibility.

However, right now we are playing 18 and 19 year old kids against 21+ year old men. Those few years make a huge difference, especially with how good collegiate strength and conditioning programs are in this day and age. Football is much different than basketball. It's a lot harder for freshman to step in and hold their own at this level. We need to give these kids time to mature physically so that they are at the same level as the juniors and seniors they are playing against. We'll know a lot more about how Lovie and staff are doing in a couple years.

Maybe next year if there is no noticeable improvement we can start to question how things are going. But there is no reason to worry about it this year. We are getting beat because we are playing so many freshman. That's it. The hope is that the experience they are gaining will help once they have physically matured.
 
#31      
The difference is certainly not automatic. We don't now how these players will work out. We may develop these players for 3 years and still be getting blown out in B1G games. It's a real possibility.

However, right now we are playing 18 and 19 year old kids against 21+ year old men. Those few years make a huge difference, especially with how good collegiate strength and conditioning programs are in this day and age. Football is much different than basketball. It's a lot harder for freshman to step in and hold their own at this level. We need to give these kids time to mature physically so that they are at the same level as the juniors and seniors they are playing against. We'll know a lot more about how Lovie and staff are doing in a couple years.

Maybe next year if there is no noticeable improvement we can start to question how things are going. But there is no reason to worry about it this year. We are getting beat because we are playing so many freshman. That's it. The hope is that the experience they are gaining will help once they have physically matured.

Well stated, thank you.

Of course the players need to improve. I don't think anyone is arguing that fact. If Lovie and staff can get these three stars to play above three star ranking, then add higher three stars and of course four star players, a foundation is set.

But as stated, we cannot run from the fact we are playing too many 18-19 year old, three star players, vs 21-22 year old three/four stars. Heck, even a 21 year old three star should be better than an 18 year old three star.
 
#32      

FT35

Naperville
If these are the most talented players then you need better results. I don't see the automatic improvement most see due to players aging. The level of recruit is not improving. They are still basically 3 star recruits replacing 3 star recruits.

It really depends on what positions you are referring to.

There are some positions where True Freshman can have a very positive impact due to their athleticism and talent. I'm referring to positions like RB (Epstein and Bonner), WR (Smalling), Safety (Williams) and CB (Hobbs and Adams). You can probably throw special teams into this as well (Hayes and Hobbs). What we're seeing from these guys right now is probably not going to change all that much in the next three years. The CBs can get better with experience and reps, a player like Smallng can improve his downfield blocking, etc. However, what we're seeing right now is probably not going to change all that much in the next three years.

There are also developmental positions, however, where almost ANY True Freshman is going to struggle at this level. I'm referring to QB (Thomas), OL (Boyd, Palczewski, Lowe), TE (Dorsey) and DL (Gay, Roundtree, Woods and Carney). All of these guys will benefit from S&C and experience. I'm not seeing a lack of talent from these guys. I'm seeing these guys struggle due to lack of experience and/or strength. You can argue about the impact that any of these players are going to have over the next three years but we should be seeing better results as time goes on.

It's also not a case of three star players simply replacing three star players. TB did a HORRIBLE job in terms of recruiting, regardless of what the rankings tell you. The non-JUCO players from the Class of 2014, with a few notable exceptions, have not had a major impact here. The "high end talent" from the Class of 2015 is either gone, injured or hasn't played well when given a chance. The lack of quality players at OL and QB is particularly alarming in these classes. I won't criticize BC for the Class of 2016 since he was put in a difficult situation, although that is mostly a lost class with nearly half of those players already gone.

This is a TOTAL REBUILD. I will say that I'm losing patience with the offense. I can't imagine we're going to see a marked improvement there in 2018 as it takes years for OL to develop and we will still have numerous underclassmen there. QB is also a major question mark still although Thomas has a very high ceiling. I'm bullish on the defense, though.
 
#33      
We are getting beat because we are playing so many freshman. That's it. The hope is that the experience they are gaining will help once they have physically matured.

Well, not exactly. We are getting beat because of the QB position.
 
#35      
I do agree with you there. A good quarterback would go a long way towards masking our current deficiencies.

Can we get a top ranked QB in the state to commit to us with Lovie bear as HC? I know hes looking for mobile QB's, but idk.... ND and NW both have preference over us.

Only way to make a big splash in recruiting is to get someone who can woo players here.

And Chip Kelly can do that.
 
#36      

blmillini

Bloomington, IL
Can we get a top ranked QB in the state to commit to us with Lovie bear as HC? I know hes looking for mobile QB's, but idk.... ND and NW both have preference over us.

Only way to make a big splash in recruiting is to get someone who can woo players here.

And Chip Kelly can do that.

That's funny! ;)
 
#38      
How many more games would we win with a top QB but a freshman o-line?
Not many. Maybe one, two at most. But I think the games would be tighter at the end. If there was a play making quarterback back there that could run and throw he would help sustain a few more drives a game and keep our defense off the field. Our defense has seemed to play okay for the first half/ three quarters of most of these games, but then just run out of gas at the end. Maybe if our offense was able to stay on the field a little longer our defense would be able to make it closer to the end of the game before completely breaking down.
 
#40      

RedRocksIllini

Morrison, CO
I got two words to sell you:

Chip Kelly.

I got two words to sell you:

Ain't happenin'.

Do you really think the DIA can afford to eat 3 years of Lovie's contract?

Do you really think Chip Kelly is going to jump on board a program that dumps their previous coach effectively 1 year into a complete rebuild?

Fire Lovie now and, at best, we'll be back to begging the second best coach in Toledo to take the job (and I'm being VERY generous with the second best assessment.)
 
#41      

breadman

Herndon, VA
Besides experience as one of our major problems this year, the other would be depth.
 
#42      
...if you're still into Illinois Football that is.
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I'll have the radio on at work... as usual.
 
#45      

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
It is not Illinois freshman vs other teams seniors. Other teams are also playing freshman and Illinois does have upperclassman playing.

I don't see good schemes being run on offense or defense. Other teams with less talent have passed Illinois in 1 season and you can't assume they are going to regress.
Except literally nobody else is playing even close to the percentage of Freshmen that we are. That is a fact. Read Illiniboard. Robert lays out the facts quite nicely in one article.
 
#46      

EfremWinters84

S. Carolina
As someone mentioned earlier, I can't believe we've fallen so LOW as to be a 9-point dog to Indiana, at home.

IND 38
ILL 17

It's basketball time!!
 
#48      

Illiini

In the land of the Nittany Lion
Why are so many guys hurt? Not strong enough and getting beat up? Not having enough protection from each other? Just dumb luck? All of the aove?

And let's have some of the karma from last night's bball game rub off on football today...for both Illinois and Indiana.
 
#49      
More QB confusion for #Illini. Lovie Smith told Illini Quarterback Club Friday that freshman Cam Thomas probably won't play vs. Indiana due to unspecified injury. Welcome back, Jeff George, Jr.

This now becomes a guaranteed loss for us. Fortunately, Ohio State vs Michigan State is on network TV at the same time. You can quickly change over after every turnover or 3 and out.
 
#50      

SampsonRelpenk

Edwardsville, IL
Werner: LB Tre Watson, DTs Tito Odenigbo and Kenyon Jackson expected back, as is Reggie Corbin

Mike Dudek and Malik Turner OUT, as is Ra'Von Bonner.
 
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