Pregame: Illinois vs Xavier, Wednesday, November 21st, 8:00pm CT, ESPNU

[FiveStar]

Playing Adonis without help/support on the inside puts even more pressure on him that could be counterproductive on both getting tired and picking up fouls. He has always picked up fouls in his career, that is who he is. IMO it is obvious that it would be difficult for him to be the single inside focus, even as he continues to rehab. He needs more support on the inside to be successful. Personally, I think that is the same with Giorgi, he starts fast (e.g., Gonzaga) but kind of gets overwhelmed trying to do too much at times because of lack of support.

Defensively it scares me too. A good number of teams choose to abandon their offense vs us and just go 4 out or 5 out space and drive. Now you will have one of Giorgi or Adonis pushing out into the passing lanes or applying extreme ball pressure way out high. If we played a packline style defense the size would be more useful. In space you’re gonna have one of those guys getting blown by even more so than our guards. That could make the pressure put on the other at the rim even worse than it is now, even if you’re trying to use the extra size to relieve it.

I thought the 1-3-1 we ran vs Gonzaga was reasonably effective (though I didn’t think we were doing it particularly well interestingly enough). Maybe a spot could be found for both of them in that. The extra size + a zone could be effective.

 

[FiveStar]

1. We are playing a tougher than usual schedule, but the "usual" was misleading because it was a clear deterioration of what we should have been playing.

2. Given that Kipper already had to sit out a year coming in from Tulane, he is not going anywhere.

3. Ayo is a good player, with good size (needs strength) but he is IMO nowhere near of being considered a possible one-and-done, unless making a decision based on other factors (rather than what NBA team would think of him). Without better athleticism, he needs to improve his PG skills (become a floor general) and his shooting,

The Groce schedules were an absolute abomination.

And they didn’t even accomplish what they intended.

 

[sully]

really really hope we beat Xavier . Get the W PLEASE!

 

[TopOtheKey]

i think we all need to calm down.

This is a good summary of the positives so far. But the conversation needs to be about appropriate leadership. How long does an effective leader wait to create change? It’s too late if you wait until the car is in the ditch. Sports and life are all about ability to change. Good leadership is anticipation. Great leadership is recognizing small things that metastasize, or that the world is changing. Where are we??

Yes there are positives. But way too many negatives this early in the season. Underwood sees them. He mentioned some post game last night. There are real issues at both ends of the court. And his comments about going 14 minutes before we ran the offense and both Giorgi and Adonis not handing off correctly in the pinch post are red flashing lights that instructions are not being followed. Why? Do the players not want to? Or don’t understand? Or can’t? What is it? If I’m Whitman hearing this I am on the phone with Underwood asking a lot of questions. He was being honest but opened Pandora’s box. (I would’ve been happier if he said the kids were still emotionally spent from the Zags game)

Look, I thought he was a good hire but his comments last night are major league concerning.

Can Coach steer to keep us out of the ditch?
Overreacting? I wish.

 

[BlueLeader]

What exactly are the teams? We have played Gonzaga, but we came up empty against both Georgetown (at home) and Iowa State where we got beat thoroughly with their team having critical players missing (injuries/suspensions). Neither of those are top 25 teams, not at their current state.

ISU is a top 25 team in their current state and I'm confident that Sunday the official report will reflect that.

 

[ejam21]

1. We are playing a tougher than usual schedule, but the "usual" was misleading because it was a clear deterioration of what we should have been playing.

2. Given that Kipper already had to sit out a year coming in from Tulane, he is not going anywhere.

3. Ayo is a good player, with good size (needs strength) but he is IMO nowhere near of being considered a possible one-and-done, unless making a decision based on other factors (rather than what NBA team would think of him). Without better athleticism, he needs to improve his PG skills (become a floor general) and his shooting,

just curious, but what is wrong with his shooting? So far he is 50% from the field and above 50% on 3s at (8-15)

Even if you only look at games vs high majors (so exclude Evansville), he's at 50% from 3

 

[Obelix]

just curious, but what is wrong with his shooting? So far he is 50% from the field and above 50% on 3s at (8-15)

Even if you only look at games vs high majors (so exclude Evansville), he's at 50% from 3

For a guard to be considered one-and-done, they generally have to excel in one or more of the following dimensions:

1. Athleticism.

2. Exceptional floor general.

3. Exceptional shooting and scoring.

Ayo is constrained in #1, he is not a bad athlete and is efficient in his movement but is not and will likely never differentiate himself along that dimension.

Currently, he is not an exceptional floor general. His ball handling is good, but not exceptional, he sees the floor but is not a high level assist man and facilitator. Actually, on our current team Frazier plays more of that role (although he is not exceptional on that dimension either). People had mentioned Feliz before the season started but as I warned people, Feliz is more of a combo as well. Ayo has to become more comfortable as a pure PG.

Shooting and scoring usually necessitates some level of athleticism and/or combination of exceptional PG skills to make the NBA. There are some examples of guards who have made it based on exceptional shooting with great form without 1 and 2 above (e.g., JJ Redick) but you really have to be exceptional in that dimension and are mostly exceptions. Ayo has improved his shooting form but he is still more of a "drive" kind of guard.

I do not think #1 will change significantly, so his best chance to the NBA is improving #2 and #3 above. I do not think those dimensions are NBA level right now, thus I do not even consider him even a one-and-done candidate but that is JMO. I do think he is a very good college player though.

 

[Deleted member 746094]

Someone corral those goalposts.

We've choked away a lead at home against a bad, freshman-laden Georgetown team and been humiliated by a recruit we chose to jettison on an Iowa State team missing four of their best guys off a team that went 13-18 last year.

Would you gladly accept those two outcomes in exchange for Trent hitting the game winner against Gonzaga? Probably. But we didn't get that, so instead we're stuck reeling at 1-3.

All that Gonzaga game reveals, at this point, is how much we've under-performed elsewhere.

Xavier is not very good either, they are in a real year 1, and we're desperate (or should be). We need to win this game tonight.

I haven’t agreed with a lot of what you have said so far this season, but I do agree with needing to win tonight. Young or not, Xavier is a team we have enough talent to beat and should beat. BU needs to prove he can find a way to get our guys locked in to execute and bring the intensity. This is every team on the island’s third game in three days. Tonight will show if all the “Fletch is the best in the business” and “everyday guys” carries any weight. I hate the term “must win” as this is only game 5, but it is definitely a game we need to win for many reasons. One of them being confidence for a young team’s morale.

 

[alexander58]

I hate to tell you this, but the facts actually were that Underwood was not for making the adjustments mentioned. Two of assistant coaches, Mike Boynton being one of them, pleaded with Underwood for quite a while to sink defenders back and not run the half court press because so many teams were getting layups against OSU.

If Underwood remains stubborn about changing, everyone should be prepared for another season of frustration (except opponents).

 

[Epsilon]

ISU is a top 25 team in their current state and I'm confident that Sunday the official report will reflect that.

Iowa State taking it to SDSU as we speak...

 

[RSBCC13]

I missed the start of second half. Did Griffin get the starting nod after his spark in late first half?

 

[IllFanInMi]

If this team continues to let others score at will, unfortunately it may not be real often.

 

[BananaShampoo]

Like I said before, Prohm can coach. I was really clamoring for him to be our next coach before BU happened, in addition to being on the Keatts Train.

 

[Obelix]

The Groce schedules were an absolute abomination.

And they didn’t even accomplish what they intended.

The deterioration of the out-of-conference schedule started much earlier than that, when Illinois started to go into irrelevancy with Weber (2006). During the 2006-2012 years (Weber) are out-of-conference average strength of schedule was 76.33. In the Groce era (2012-2017) the out-of-conference average strength of schedule was 68.8, a little better.

Playing a tough out-of-conference schedule can have great benefits and add visibility, but you have to have a strong team to back it up. In the Groce era we were pretty much an NIT team, but so far in BU's career we are struggling to reach that level. Just improving the SOS will not help unless we improve roster via recruiting to be able to handle that SOS.

 

[Deleted member 645583]

I have noticed that that alcohol helps one make it through both Illinois football and basketball games in recent years.

"Alcohol, taken in sufficient quantities, may produce all the effects of drunkeness."

"Eveything in moderation, including moderation."

Oscar Wilde.

One more: "I can resist everything except temptation." He's got a million of 'em.

 

[IllFanInMi]

It really does stink being so upset and hungry for success, but it’s difficult not to be looking at this show with one eye closed.

I understand a coach having a philosophy and believing in it whole heartedly, especially when it has proven successful in the past.

Bobby Knight was man to man til death do us part, hated zones, but ultimately the game changed and he changed with it.

I’m really just looking for BU to recognize that perhaps he needs to flex his principles until he has the roster balance to maximize his philosophies on both ends. Numbers don’t lie, they just don’t, and he knows the story they’re telling. He has a full season in addition to 4 games this year to digest stats and they’re indicative of the results his philosophies can produce with the roster balance we have.

I don’t know what strategies he should incorporate into his main philosophies, but I’m not making millions to devise them. All I can see is what happened last year and how this year is starting out eerily repetitive.

Interesting to see if adjustments are made tonight, or we are simply able to make BU ball work successfully over an inferior opponent subject to his style.

Bill Belichick surely has core philosophies, but attacks each opponent with precision based on personnel and strengths and weaknesses, and he’s done okay I would say.

 

[Deleted member 645583]

Who are the announcers?

I hope that Walton is not one of them.

I expect that ILL will surprise somehow and win a close game. It's got to happen sometime, right?

I enjoyed his act most of the time, but I don't think I can take Bill Walton three games in a row. Lose the hula outfit, please. It's repulsive.

 

[BRucks]

One of the big stories when Underwood was hired were the adjustments he made to save Oklahoma States’ season. It’s time.

and the other big story was the plan to score within 7 seconds.

 

[ChocolateThunder]

"Alcohol, taken in sufficient quantities, may produce all the effects of drunkeness."

"Eveything in moderation, including moderation."

Oscar Wilde.

One more: "I can resist everything except temptation." He's got a million of 'em.

When asked why he drank so much, W. C Fields once replied. "I drink to make other people more interesting." Unfortunately, I suppose he same can be said of Illini basketball and football in recent years.

 

[BRucks]

Personally, I'd rather try to put more pressure on the inside with Adonis and Giorgi in the same lineup. Lineup changes in the backcourt will likely not change much. JMO.

What do you do for the other 20 minutes after they both have fouled out?

 

[stlillinifan]

The fact that we are playing a tougher schedule doesn't mean a whole lot. The fact that we have been in these games against Georgetown, ISU, Gonzaga... means even less. SIU was up 5 on Kentucky IN Lexington, ended up losing. We need to WIN

 

[alaskaillini]

Having watched a lot of tourney basketball over the years at the Great Alaska Shootout (weird that it is not around anymore), the consolation bracket and especially the seventh place game is where often one or the other teams just wants to go home. Our local D2 team regularly got a W over a much better team that just was not mentally prepared for another intense game. I think that was us last night. I hope that team is not us tonight. Hopefully the guys got a good night of sleep and come out ready to play the whole game with intensity and focus. Need that "everyday guys" attitude back.

 

[Steelyunk]

Wonder what our points off turnovers to free throws against number would look like. Do they measure that? I’m too lazy.

 

[Deleted member 645583]

When asked why he drank so much, W. C Fields once replied. "I drink to make other people more interesting." Unfortunately, I suppose he same can be said of Illini basketball and football in recent years.

W.C Fields on safari, or a trip to Afghanistan or on a desert island: "Someone lost the corkscrew and all we had to live on was food and water."

Go Illini, get one win out of this trip.

 

[Steelyunk]

Okay so I looked it up.
Our points off turnovers per game: 23
Opponents free throws made: 18
So does that mean the fouls are worth 5 ppg?
What does that mean when a key player sits for long stretches in foul trouble?
Maybe an experiment to see what a zone looks like from time to time? If only to keep opponent off balance and protect Giorgi/Kipper?